Discussion Alder Lake - Builders Thread

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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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This thread is for those of us that own or are looking to get an Alder Lake CPU.

Bought mine on release day. 12900K. Memory selection was limited to only Crucial DDR5 4800 at the Micro Center I went to. Bought two 2 x 8GB kits. Motherboard is a Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master. I did buy a 360mm Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO. Ended up returning it since the Lian Li Socket 1700 backplate that I bought separately worked well with my NZXT Kraken X73.

46RRrSN.jpg
 
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New problem. NO internet. Its plugged in, the port light goes out on the back when I unplug it there or at the switch. Now what ?
Maybe you just got a really bad mobo? The Asus H610M I tested didn't have any serious issues other than taking really long with the blank screen whenever I made some change in the UEFI options. When Windows booted up, I got a message for something called the Armory Crate that said that this motherboard comes with the LAN driver built-in so people can get on the internet right away. Didn't test it coz I don't have LAN in my flat.

Also, I think you installed Linux? No idea how well that mobo supports Linux.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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First, I installed linux mint 19.2. It finished between your 2 posts, like 4 minutes. Then I put in an external lan card probably 15 years old, probably 10 mps, it works. So I have to take out the motherboard or live this this slow card.

Even though the 12700F mistake was mine, the junk heatsink is Intel problem, and the brand new sealed defective Intel (ASUS) motherboard is a pain, not being able use to a 2.0 USB in a 3.0 slot... So far I am NOT impressed.

Pictures First vertually everything you see here is plastic, NO heat transfer
20220308_152800[1].jpg
Second pic : Only a small number of the fins are aluminum.
20220308_152811[1].jpg20220308_152800[1].jpg
This whole HSF was all about looks, nothing about function,
 
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Markfw

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And I have 21 computer on my network now, and not one of them has had ANY problems like this one. Of course only one other is Intel (Xeon). The rest are AM4 or EPYC.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Question: Is there a better motherboard to allow memory over 3200 ? (the most Intel officially allows). The motherboard itsself says it allows up to like 5300. I only have 4000 and at spec voltage (1.4) it won't even post at 3600 ! I am returning this one as defective, but could exchange if a better on in the price range was available. ($216)
 
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CuriousMike

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2001
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It's too bad this thing is being such a PITA to get going - certainly doesn't start this foray into Intel in a good light.

You've been pretty AMD-centric the last couple of years ( for good reason ) - and because of that, I was hoping to hear your take on the new Intel stuff.

Unfortunately this plastic crap HSF, dysfunctional networking and subpar memory constraints are going to certainly color this differently - perhaps the fault of the immature mobo/chipset.

I'll continue to watch from the sidelines.
 
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Tech Junky

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@Markfw

I had an issue with the RTL on my board in Linux and it was using the wrong module to enable it on boot. I blacklisted it and it works fine in that mode. Livecd though still uses the wrong version as well.
 

Markfw

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May 16, 2002
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@Markfw

I had an issue with the RTL on my board in Linux and it was using the wrong module to enable it on boot. I blacklisted it and it works fine in that mode. Livecd though still uses the wrong version as well.
OK, most of my boxes are linux, but I don't know anything to speak of about linux, except it works great with DC.

OK, don't hold me to this, very preliminary results, and no power usage (I forgot to put in the kill-a-watt)

BUT, On the positive side, it looks like this 12700F is doing 2:45 (h:mm) and a 5950x is doing 2:50 in primegrid ! But 20 for the 12700F and 31 for the 5950x.

Let me shut down the 12700F and get a meter on it.

OH, so its doing 245 watts from the wall on CPU vs a 5950 (minus the 400 watt 3080TI) at 245 watts. So power is the same, but the 5950x is doing 50% more threads of work at the almost same time.

So not bad, but for sustained CPU multi-threaded work, the 5950x still wins.

My reservations and shortcomings on the Intel setup still hold, but its not bad. Mind you I KNOW IT WINS IN GAMES, SO DISCOUNT THAT. This finding is purely for multi-threaded heavy apps.

Edit @CuriousMike , here is a few preliminary results.

OK, that was a 5950x in windows fully loaded vs a 12700F in linux fully loaded. Linux is always better. Look at this , with a partually loaded 5950s at 1/5th the completion time, 30 to 40 minutes ! !
1646791786198.png
 
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Question: Is there a better motherboard to allow memory over 3200 ? (the most Intel officially allows). The motherboard itsself says it allows up to like 5300. I only have 4000 and at spec voltage (1.4) it won't even post at 3600 ! I am returning this one as defective, but could exchange if a better on in the price range was available. ($216)
I got CL15 DDR4-3000 to work using the Kingston RAM's built in XMP profile. Don't have experience with memory OC.
So maybe see if the XMP profile works?

Also, if your workloads are more bandwidth hungry than latency sensitive then DDR5 is the way for you to go, however expensive it might be.
 
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CuriousMike

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2001
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That is some good data - same power from wall, but 5950 is doing more.

OH, so its doing 245 watts from the wall on CPU vs a 5950 (minus the 400 watt 3080TI) at 245 watts. So power is the same, but the 5950x is doing 50% more threads of work at the almost same time.

So not bad, but for sustained CPU multi-threaded work, the 5950x still wins.

My reservations and shortcomings on the Intel setup still hold, but its not bad. Mind you I KNOW IT WINS IN GAMES, SO DISCOUNT THAT. This finding is purely for multi-threaded heavy apps.

Edit @CuriousMike , here is a few preliminary results.

OK, that was a 5950x in windows fully loaded vs a 12700F in linux fully loaded. Linux is always better. Look at this , with a partually loaded 5950s at 1/5th the completion time, 30 to 40 minutes ! !
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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That is some good data - same power from wall, but 5950 is doing more.
I think what this means is that the average of 8 P cores and 4 E cores uses the same as an equivalent 5950x core in power, but at the same total power, the 5950x can do more work. Yes, I agree with you.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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The motherboard itsself says it allows up to like 5300. I only have 4000 and at spec voltage (1.4) it won't even post at 3600 ! I am returning this one as defective, but could exchange if a better on in the price range was available. ($216)

Since you're returning it I doubt we'll have much of an opportunity to attempt to address the problem. But I'm curious: did you use the XMP settings for the DIMMs or . . . ?
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Since you're returning it I doubt we'll have much of an opportunity to attempt to address the problem. But I'm curious: did you use the XMP settings for the DIMMs or . . . ?
The only thing I could see in the bios was ram speed. They bury that somewhere ?
 
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Tech Junky

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They bury that somewhere ?
For Asrock it's right up front and you click on it and then save / reboot. Typically these things aren't hidden if they're a feature. Some bios though are a bit more nested in the application of changes that you can make.

When you dive into the "advanced" screens it gets a bit murky when you go into different options.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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The only thing I could see in the bios was ram speed. They bury that somewhere ?

Probably. There's no telling which preprogrammed timings you were using, but odds are good that you had timings that were just not suited to higher clocks, so when you cranked up clocks it just wouldn't POST. I'm guessing you wound up with the "default" DDR4-2933 or whatever it is that it selects when you aren't using XMP/XMP2.0.

Okay this video should apply to your board:


(if the timestamp doesn't work, jump to about 2:45)

Note that's the setting in EZ Mode, which I suspect you weren't using because . . . who uses EZ Mode? But. If you can't find it in the advanced mode menus, that's an option. I haven't found a full UEFI menu walkthrough for an Asus DDR4-based Z690 yet.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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Question: Is there a better motherboard to allow memory over 3200 ? (the most Intel officially allows). The motherboard itsself says it allows up to like 5300. I only have 4000 and at spec voltage (1.4) it won't even post at 3600 ! I am returning this one as defective, but could exchange if a better on in the price range was available. ($216)
Your board should definitely be able to run 3600+. The rule of thumb for ALD-S Z690 motherboards is all are able to hit 3600, after that it starts to depend on firmware/board maturity and your own luck with the CPU mem controller quality. The usual limit (at least on early firmware revisions) is 4000 MT/s for Dual Rank kits and 4266+ MT/s for Single Rank. One big problem is using 4 DIMMs, some of the cheaper boards struggle with XMP on that. (but this is nothing new for anyone running high memory clocks on any recent platform).

Based on my own homework with early Z690 DDR4 boards, I would recommend you stick with Asus boards. I went with MSI after narrowed down to MSI Pro Z690-A or Asus TUF. If I were alowed to choose again, I would go with the Asus TUF since MSI let me down with the crawling speed they're addressing the final round of UEFI bugs.

Going back to memory overclocking, my recommendation would be to try again while changing some the default voltages:
  • set System Agent voltage to 1.25V (default is 1.15V, safe upper limit is around 1.35V)
  • set VDDQ to something like 1.25V (this voltage isn't properly documented, and the use of a similar name on DDR5 boards makes things even murkier)
  • set DRAM voltage to 1.45V (just for testing phase, after that you can go back to 1.4V if you prefer)
If the board fails to POST using 4000 then start from 3200-3400 MT/s and increase memory speed in 100Mhz increments. At this stage you just want to see if the board is able to train the memory and you're alble to return to UEFI with the new setting. Keep increasing until the board no longer trains the memory properly. If all goes well you should be able to climb up to 3800+, and then you can lower the DRAM voltage back to 1.4 if you want, maybe even the VDDQ can go back to Auto if everything is stable. The SA voltage I would keep a tad above stock.
 
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Kaloi48

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Jun 2, 2016
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Question: Is there a better motherboard to allow memory over 3200 ? (the most Intel officially allows). The motherboard itsself says it allows up to like 5300. I only have 4000 and at spec voltage (1.4) it won't even post at 3600 ! I am returning this one as defective, but could exchange if a better on in the price range was available. ($216)
Non-K Alder Lake SKUs have locked VCCSA Voltages. This makes it struggle to run DDR4 at 3600 stably with Gear 1 mode.

Non-K + B chipset = cannot increase VCCSA (it sits around 0.91x to 0.92xV depending on IMC quality)
Non-K + Z chipset = cannot increase VCCSA (it sits around 0.91x to 0.92xV depending on IMC quality)
K + B chipset = can increase VCCSA (This scenario was not confirmed by Intel, but so far it worked)
K + Z chipset = can increase VCCSA
 
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Justinbaileyman

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Aug 17, 2013
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Sorry I suggested that motherboard for ya Mark. I didn't think you were gonna have all kinds of issues like that from that board. Do you mind if I ask if you tried updating the bios as of yet?
 
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Did the onboard LAN work? Or still using the decades old LAN card? Could the low network speed impact the amount of work the CPU is able to do?

By the way, I loved Kingston's XMP profiles. One was for higher bandwidth and the other was for tighter timing. Makes it so easy to switch to whichever you want for your particular use case. Not sure if other manufacturers are doing the same thing and allowing the user to choose between bandwidth and timing.
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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Non-K Alder Lake SKUs have locked VCCSA Voltages. This makes it struggle to run DDR4 at 3600 stably with Gear 1 mode.
Wow. What a bad move from Intel, and to think people were happy about BCLK overclocking.

This makes memory oc on locked parts a pure lottery, depending on IMC quality.

Some people advise against messing with the SA voltage. Isn't that going to void the CPU warranty, since this overvolts the memory controller?
Some people advise against many things. CPU warranty gets voided once you push the CPU mem controller past 3200MT/s, no matter the voltages.
 
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This whole HSF was all about looks, nothing about function,

In testing with a Core i5-12400, the cooler kept the CPU at a steady 73C with 20C ambient temperatures while running a full AIDA64 stress test, resulting in around 80W of power consumption. According to the outlet, the only downside was the fan's rather high 3100 RPM, which produced a lot of wind noise.

Nonetheless, this is an impressive result for Intel's new stock cooler. Previous versions of Intel's stock cooler, even with copper slugs, could barely keep 65-80W parts from approaching near 100C, or at best, kept the locked chips at 90-95C under ideal conditions at max load.

It may look cheap but still a big improvement over their past stock heatsinks.