Albuquerque police murder homeless man

[Newell Steamer]

Really??

Your words,... not mine.

Would you care to explain to me how your statement is NOT broadsweeping and totally dismissive of any good thing a cop does?

EDIT: oh, wait you answered it already.

Thanks for clearing it up,.. expect this to come back MANY times; broad and sweeping statements are perfectly acceptable.

 

[Vaux]

If you think this was murder, you are an idiot. He is confronting officers holding a knife, what the hell do you people think is going to happen here? He got shot because he was too ignorant to follow directions.

If he would have done what the officers repeatedly told him to do, this would not have happened.

 

[Venix]

If you think this was murder, you are an idiot. He is confronting officers holding a knife, what the hell do you people think is going to happen here? He got shot because he was too ignorant to follow directions.

If he would have done what the officers repeatedly told him to do, this would not have happened.

Similarly, if this quadriplegic had obeyed the officer's order to step out of his wheelchair, he would not have been dumped face first onto the floor.

A schizophrenic man isn't "ignorant" for not following directions. He's severely mentally ill, which is why he was living outside on a hillside. His death would be unfortunate even if the shooting were unavoidable.

Had the officers been appropriately trained in dealing with the mentally ill, I have little doubt that the situation would have ended peacefully. Hopefully this incident prompts the department to invest in some additional training or other improvements.

 

[Vaux]

Similarly, if this quadriplegic had obeyed the officer's order to step out of his wheelchair, he would not have been dumped face first onto the floor.

A schizophrenic man isn't "ignorant" for not following directions. He's severely mentally ill, which is why he was living outside on a hillside. His death would be unfortunate even if the shooting were unavoidable.

Had the officers been appropriately trained in dealing with the mentally ill, I have little doubt that the situation would have ended peacefully. Hopefully this incident prompts the department to invest in some additional training or other improvements.

First, can't see the video right now so I won't comment on that.

Secondly, it's unfortunate that this man was mentally ill and that may have impaired his judgement in this situation. But this is a slippery slope argument. Are mentally ill people not capable of harming someone? Does their unpredictability make the situation worse? Do the police know at that very moment if he is ill or not or maybe just drunk or high? Do you think chemically impaired people don't act like this man was acting on a routine basis? Are you going to bet your life on this man not acting out because he was just "mentally ill"? I wouldn't.

In police work you can't just call a timeout and bring in a psychiatrist and work out your feelings. If you are in a confrontation and weilding a knife at police officers, mentally ill or not if you don't follow the officers orders you will get shot. If a person does not have the mental capacity to understand that, well it's a damn shame, but it doesn't change anything in that situation.

 

[Triumph]

If you think this was murder, you are an idiot. He is confronting officers holding a knife, what the hell do you people think is going to happen here? He got shot because he was too ignorant to follow directions.

If he would have done what the officers repeatedly told him to do, this would not have happened.

I suggest you ask yourself why your lust for blood is so all encompassing, why do you feel that the punishment for not following directions should be so extreme, why do you demand a permanent solution to a temporary problem? Really, I'd like to know what drove you to be so angry at the world that your demand for blood and death is so overpowering.

 

[Vaux]

I suggest you ask yourself why your lust for blood is so all encompassing, why do you feel that the punishment for not following directions should be so extreme, why do you demand a permanent solution to a temporary problem? Really, I'd like to know what drove you to be so angry at the world that your demand for blood and death is so overpowering.

I don't have a clue what you are talking about with all of that.

It's not about punishment. It's about letting the officer do his job without the threat of being stabbed.

 

[Genx87]

There were I believe 12 officers in total. Not all were on the video. They had non-lethal means to subdue the homeless man. Also after negotiating with him the man was finally coming down. And then one of them decides to escalate the situation by shooting a flash bang. As the man is running away they open up on the guy. That is murder in my opinion. He was no threat with his back turned to that many officers with rifles drawn. If you or I shot somebody in the back running away the prosecutors office would charge us with murder. Why not the cops?

 

[Vaux]

There were I believe 12 officers in total. Not all were on the video. They had non-lethal means to subdue the homeless man. Also after negotiating with him the man was finally coming down. And then one of them decides to escalate the situation by shooting a flash bang. As the man is running away they open up on the guy. That is murder in my opinion. He was no threat with his back turned to that many officers with rifles drawn. If you or I shot somebody in the back running away the prosecutors office would charge us with murder. Why not the cops?

So many people here just don't have a clue about police work.

The number of officers there does not make any difference. They did try to use a non lethal means, did you not see the flashbang and dog? They were too far away to use a taser, they don't want to get close to the guy because they don't want to get stabbed. The police did not escalate the situation, they took control of it. Bad guys don't get to make the rules. You think they are just going to stand there all day and wait for this guy to leave? You think they can just let him walk away with his weapon after this standoff? Hint : Not a chance.

Him turning to walk away means nothing. He was shot when the dog was on him and he extended his hand away from his hip which can be interpreted as being ready to stab the dog. They shot when they were supposed to according to their training.

 

[Pulsar]

Similarly, if this quadriplegic had obeyed the officer's order to step out of his wheelchair, he would not have been dumped face first onto the floor.

A schizophrenic man isn't "ignorant" for not following directions. He's severely mentally ill, which is why he was living outside on a hillside. His death would be unfortunate even if the shooting were unavoidable.

Had the officers been appropriately trained in dealing with the mentally ill, I have little doubt that the situation would have ended peacefully. Hopefully this incident prompts the department to invest in some additional training or other improvements.

1. False equivalency.
2. "Just train them more" is an age old argument that is stupid at it's very core. No amount of training can turn a normal human policeman into a superhuman animal-handling never-flinching perfect-shooting absolutely-polite no-mistake-making kung-fu-master psychiatrist-social worker-counseler first-aid-giving hero.

They're people doing the best they can, though I know a lot of posters in this forum simply can't get that through their heads.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Him turning to walk away means nothing. He was shot when the dog was on him and he extended his hand away from his hip which can be interpreted as being ready to stab the dog. They shot when they were supposed to according to their training.

He was shot in the back. I shoot someone in the back even after they attack me, it's homicide. Same applies here. He turned away, THEY escalated the situation. Their training ALSO does say to not shoot in the back.

 

[RampantAndroid]

1. False equivalency.
2. "Just train them more" is an age old argument that is stupid at it's very core. No amount of training can turn a normal human policeman into a superhuman animal-handling never-flinching perfect-shooting absolutely-polite no-mistake-making kung-fu-master psychiatrist-social worker-counseler first-aid-giving hero.

They're people doing the best they can, though I know a lot of posters in this forum simply can't get that through their heads.

They're people who have authority, who can and do kill more often than many of the soldiers presently serving overseas. If the "best they can" equates to shooting someone like this, they are not fit for the job.

 

[Triumph]

So many people here just don't have a clue about police work.

The number of officers there does not make any difference. They did try to use a non lethal means, did you not see the flashbang and dog? They were too far away to use a taser, they don't want to get close to the guy because they don't want to get stabbed. The police did not escalate the situation, they took control of it. Bad guys don't get to make the rules. You think they are just going to stand there all day and wait for this guy to leave? You think they can just let him walk away with his weapon after this standoff? Hint : Not a chance.

Him turning to walk away means nothing. He was shot when the dog was on him and he extended his hand away from his hip which can be interpreted as being ready to stab the dog. They shot when they were supposed to according to their training.

So basically, any motion by any suspect that could in any way be interpreted as a hint of hostile actions should be met with instant and deadly force. The suspect should be killed. Got it.

Again, why the bloodlust?

 

[Sunburn74]

1. False equivalency.
2. "Just train them more" is an age old argument that is stupid at it's very core. No amount of training can turn a normal human policeman into a superhuman animal-handling never-flinching perfect-shooting absolutely-polite no-mistake-making kung-fu-master psychiatrist-social worker-counseler first-aid-giving hero.

They're people doing the best they can, though I know a lot of posters in this forum simply can't get that through their heads.

I disagree. Other countries have police officers who face similar situations where someone is wielding a knife or another non projectile weapon whilst the officers do. Yet only here does the wielder have a significantly higher chance of being killed. You can make all the excuses you want about how america is more dangerous and the possibility of a gun makes things harder for cops, but those cops in Germany and Israel also face similar possibilities and handle it just fine. Furthermore you never hear about FBI or ATF or coast guard during their raids and operations having such royal screwups. At the end of the day it comes does come down to just poor training, a poor code of ethics, and poor leadership.

 

[Genx87]

So many people here just don't have a clue about police work.

The number of officers there does not make any difference. They did try to use a non lethal means, did you not see the flashbang and dog? They were too far away to use a taser, they don't want to get close to the guy because they don't want to get stabbed. The police did not escalate the situation, they took control of it. Bad guys don't get to make the rules. You think they are just going to stand there all day and wait for this guy to leave? You think they can just let him walk away with his weapon after this standoff? Hint : Not a chance.

Him turning to walk away means nothing. He was shot when the dog was on him and he extended his hand away from his hip which can be interpreted as being ready to stab the dog. They shot when they were supposed to according to their training.

You mean the flash bang they fired 6 seconds before opening up on a fleeing man? The flash bang they fired for only god knows what reason and clearly escalated the situation? I dont need to have a clue about police work to know that is the wrong way to go about evicting a homeless man from the side of a fucking mountain.

What made this guy bad? Sleeping on the side of a mountain? Really? And yes the police escalated the situation when they fired the flash bang for no apparent reason. He was agreeing to come off the mountain. When hegives up like the police told him to do they open fire. That is how the police should work in your world?

 

[OutHouse]

They did try to use a non lethal means, did you not see the flashbang and dog? They were too far away to use a taser, they don't want to get close to the guy because they don't want to get stabbed. The police did not escalate the situation, they took control of it.

fail on so many levels. did you watch the correct video?

first the flashbang sure as shit escalated it.
second, the dog was poorly trained and had no idea what his job was, the dog runs towards the smoke of the flash bang then thinks about the perp then goes back to his handler.
third. the handler let the dog loose on a guy holding a knife. which is a big problem in procedure.
fourth, the cops sure as shit did escalate the situation, they were in charge until they lost their patience went on the offensive.

He was shot when the dog was on him

WTF! screen snip at 50 seconds when the first shot is fired. the dog is not even close to him, in fact the dog ran back to his handler and the handler is kneeled down holding the dog. the dead guys back is turned and you see the puff of dust of the bullet impact.

 

[mizzou]

first of all, most of you dont know anything about law enforcement tactics. Second of all, im pretty damn sure most of you know absolutely nothing about foreign law enforcement tactics.

how you can say the usa is more deadly is beyond me.

this is like the fox news/cnn of media reporting, where your own bizarre assumptions can be used as facts to support an argument

 

[Venix]

first of all, most of you dont know anything about law enforcement tactics. Second of all, im pretty damn sure most of you know absolutely nothing about foreign law enforcement tactics.

how you can say the usa is more deadly is beyond me.

this is like the fox news/cnn of media reporting, where your own bizarre assumptions can be used as facts to support an argument

Is this a belated April Fools post, or are you really completely incapable of researching the topic?

There was an article a couple of years ago detailing how German police fired fewer than 100 shots in the entire year, and killed 6 people. Iceland's police killed their first person ever in December, and their response was to apologize to the mentally ill man's family even though the shooting was justified.

Police in practically every other first world country manage to handle the mentally ill without resorting to deadly force. US police departments that have adopted special mental illness training, policies, and response teams are typically similarly successful.

 

[Venix]

Secondly, it's unfortunate that this man was mentally ill and that may have impaired his judgement in this situation. But this is a slippery slope argument. Are mentally ill people not capable of harming someone? Does their unpredictability make the situation worse? Do the police know at that very moment if he is ill or not or maybe just drunk or high? Do you think chemically impaired people don't act like this man was acting on a routine basis? Are you going to bet your life on this man not acting out because he was just "mentally ill"? I wouldn't.

What's a slippery slope argument? All I said is that the death of a mentally ill man is tragic even when it's justified. Calling him ignorant and blaming him for his own death is disgusting.

In police work you can't just call a timeout and bring in a psychiatrist and work out your feelings. If you are in a confrontation and weilding a knife at police officers, mentally ill or not if you don't follow the officers orders you will get shot. If a person does not have the mental capacity to understand that, well it's a damn shame, but it doesn't change anything in that situation.

Have you not bothered to read anything about this incident? The standoff lasted for three hours, more than long enough to "call a timeout and bring in a psychiatrist." In fact, most of the incident already was a "timeout"--things only escalated in the last few seconds before Boyd's death.

 

[Triumph]

Have you not bothered to read anything about this incident? The standoff lasted for three hours, more than long enough to "call a timeout and bring in a psychiatrist." In fact, most of the incident already was a "timeout"--things only escalated in the last few seconds before Boyd's death.

Cops were probably coming up on their Union mandated break time. Probably factored in to their decision to kill the man and get things over with.

 

[OutHouse]

Police in practically every other first world country manage to handle the mentally ill without resorting to deadly force. US police departments that have adopted special mental illness training, policies, and response teams are typically similarly successful.

one of the issues is that how many thousands of police depts do we have coast to coast border to border? then throw on top the 10's of thousand of different procedures and laws and its a nightmare. The countries you mentioned only have one cop shop and all cops in that country follow the same procedure and the laws are the same in every village, town, city and states/providences

 

[OutHouse]

If you think this was murder, you are an idiot. He is confronting officers holding a knife, what the hell do you people think is going to happen here? He got shot because he was too ignorant to follow directions.

If he would have done what the officers repeatedly told him to do, this would not have happened.

never dealt with people with mental issues have you.

 

[mizzou]

Is this a belated April Fools post, or are you really completely incapable of researching the topic?

There was an article a couple of years ago detailing how German police fired fewer than 100 shots in the entire year, and killed 6 people. Iceland's police killed their first person ever in December, and their response was to apologize to the mentally ill man's family even though the shooting was justified.

Police in practically every other first world country manage to handle the mentally ill without resorting to deadly force. US police departments that have adopted special mental illness training, policies, and response teams are typically similarly successful.

That's because you just labeled a few countries who actually give a shit about the mentally ill..unlike here where we just leave them to the streets like dogs
EDIT: I take that back, we treat dogs better then the mentally ill in the US

 

[mizzou]

Actually, now you got me reading about german police tactics and it's really interesting. It seems like they have much less "Don't touch me unless I broke the law" kind of attitude and can actually work on preventing crime vs. being responsive to it.

Also, the real issue here in the US is that our healthcare system is a joke. We could drop crimes exponentially if we could just (not just fun) but actually give two fucks about taking care of people.

 

[Jodell88]

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3383131.shtml#.UzuOEld8o84

Video of aftermath. It contains blood.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8cf_1396409048

 

[mizzou]

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3383131.shtml#.UzuOEld8o84

Video of aftermath. It contains blood.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8cf_1396409048

Federal agents rarely train in non-lethal arrest training, because they overwhelmingly deal with criminals guilty of violent felonies.

Legally, in some situations, it is OK to shoot and ask questions later.

All that matters are those little bullet point requirements listed in federal case law. :\