I support the death penalty because I believe there are some crimes where death is an appropiate sentence. It puts the family of anyone so sentenced through hell too but they survive, and so would the country. It would most likely even be stronger afterwards.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
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I think he should too, although I don't think you would be pleased in a little more than a year by the results.
- Oct 30, 2000
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The country had just come out of hell - was there a need to rip open what little healing had started.
I personally, did not like the pardon - however, I understood why it was done.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
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My concern is that it may be we went to war on lies. If the President or his officers deliberately led us into war on false pretenses, then that is treason. IF, IF this is true, I don't want to see this argument used. I remember Nixon and I understand what Ford did, however not again. No.
Exactly, this situation is different then Nixon.
Nixon (who got us out of Vietnam) resigned the Presidency and then was pardoned. Carter pardoned the draft dogers. Then the healing process began.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nominating Karl Rove would give the entire country a huge belly laugh. But who is crazy enough to think the Senate would confirm Rove? GWB&co. might have gotten away with that stunt a year ago. But there is that little matter of the election of 11/06. Not to mention the fact that Rove still has a Senate subpoena he is trying to dodge. Methinks Rove is going to stay as far from Washington DC as possible. And he will likely to be just a hop skip and jump away from Mexico. And once in Mexico, he can make that other jump to a country with no extradition treaty with the USA.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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Ok, lets consider the impeachment question. And if we get get both Cheney and Bush both impeached, with Cheney going first, who would be acting Prez until 1/20/09?
In theory, after Cheney gets impeached, the appointment falls to GWB. The choice may well boil down to appointing another divisive radical right type, or choosing a mainstream moderate.
If Cheney and GWB both go in the same moment, we may be saying President Pelosi a lot in the future.
In theory, after Cheney gets impeached, the appointment falls to GWB. The choice may well boil down to appointing another divisive radical right type, or choosing a mainstream moderate.
If Cheney and GWB both go in the same moment, we may be saying President Pelosi a lot in the future.
- Oct 30, 2000
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Impeachment equates to the trial.
A person can perform their duties during an impeachment.
It is the conviction that should be considered.
I do not think the Republicans in the Senate will allow a concurrent trial to happen nor is it advisable.
So, if Cheney goes first, you will have a new VP selected (ala Ford) - I would expect it to be a moderate. Bush would rather see the Republicans have a chance to hold onto the WH in 08 given that his legacy is shot to pieces.
If Bush goes first, the Dems would have Cheney running the country and you still have a new VP selected.
Which is the lesser of two evils?
This is not a challenge post but rather than an enhancement
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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Ok EagleKeeper, I stand corrected and meant impeachment and subsequent conviction in the Senate.
In the case of Richard Nixon, Agnew resigned and Nixon later named Ford as Replacement VP only shortly before the last tape came out. The point being, the last tape was a whopper that totally exposed Nixon as a pathological liar and clearly guilty of the crime of obstructing Justice. And Nixon resigned rather than face certain impeachment and conviction. And if anything, it was the Republicans who were greasing the skids for Nixon's removal. And a united Republican party certainly had the numbers to prevent a Nixon conviction in the Senate and instead decided Nixon had to go for the good of the GOP and the larger country.
The point is the public mood is not yet there on a possible GWB&Cheney impeachment and conviction. But any events large enough to amount to what could only be called a major shift in political tectonic plates will also bring greatly enhanced possibilities.
In the case of Richard Nixon, Agnew resigned and Nixon later named Ford as Replacement VP only shortly before the last tape came out. The point being, the last tape was a whopper that totally exposed Nixon as a pathological liar and clearly guilty of the crime of obstructing Justice. And Nixon resigned rather than face certain impeachment and conviction. And if anything, it was the Republicans who were greasing the skids for Nixon's removal. And a united Republican party certainly had the numbers to prevent a Nixon conviction in the Senate and instead decided Nixon had to go for the good of the GOP and the larger country.
The point is the public mood is not yet there on a possible GWB&Cheney impeachment and conviction. But any events large enough to amount to what could only be called a major shift in political tectonic plates will also bring greatly enhanced possibilities.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
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A quick visit to google dredged up the relevant section of the 25'th amendment regarding the appointment of a replacement VP.
Section 2
[Vacancy in office of vice president.]
Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
Which could mean, GWB might try to replace an already impeached and convicted Cheney, or alternately the need to replace a Cheney who died of whatever cause. But it still leaves the congressional democrats with a veto power because they already potentially hold the united veto power in both the House and the senate. And can simply say no to anyone the President nominates for replacement VP. And if the next step is the impeachment and conviction of the President, we still default to Pelosi becoming President.
If that calculus ever happens, I can sure see the various charges and counter charges. On one hand the President can't get away with nominating a unacceptable wacko for a replacement VP and the opposite party should not play self-serving political gamesmanship with the VP slot.
The potential abuses leave gaps wide enough to smuggle a small country through the loopholes.
Section 2
[Vacancy in office of vice president.]
Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
Which could mean, GWB might try to replace an already impeached and convicted Cheney, or alternately the need to replace a Cheney who died of whatever cause. But it still leaves the congressional democrats with a veto power because they already potentially hold the united veto power in both the House and the senate. And can simply say no to anyone the President nominates for replacement VP. And if the next step is the impeachment and conviction of the President, we still default to Pelosi becoming President.
If that calculus ever happens, I can sure see the various charges and counter charges. On one hand the President can't get away with nominating a unacceptable wacko for a replacement VP and the opposite party should not play self-serving political gamesmanship with the VP slot.
The potential abuses leave gaps wide enough to smuggle a small country through the loopholes.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Uhhh, that's your opinion of what happened but isn't exactly "fact". You think it was only about politics, but you can not prove this. You have some tidbits from some of the affected prosecutors but it doesn't mean those were the reasons for the firings. The performance issue holds more weight than the political conspiracy angle you and yours are parrotting.
Again, I have no problem with him resigning, in fact I welcome it because he showed he couldn't handle this situation after firings. The firings themselves have no bearing and are not an issue IMO, he just screwed up the aftermath.
Hitler and his propoganda minister (and prototype/inspiration for Karl Rove), Joseph Gobbels, used the concept of The Big Lie. Gobbels wrote:
Keep spewing that bullshit, and sooner or later, YOU may believe it. Forturnately, most of the rest of us know better.
Hacp
Lifer
- Jun 8, 2005
- 13,923
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There was something shady going on, and you could tell with all the misstatements that Gonzales gave to the senate. The Democrats, like any good opposition party, were going to investigate.
The Bush Administration could have worked with the Senate, or rebuffed it. They chose the latter option. If the frequent "I don't recall" answers were answered truthfully under oath, if Bush didn't try to lose any emails and blockade subpoenas, and if it was found that there was nothing wrong done, Alberto Gonzales would probably still be slated to server as AG until 09.
I learned from the best one's here... the moonbats usually toss in "phony war" or "Rove" as it thats justification for anything they don't like....
I haven't seen an AG in 10 years I liked
If you truly had no issue with him resigning then you should have no issue with the Attorneys getting their jobs back.
- Oct 30, 2000
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HeXploiT
Diamond Member
- Jun 11, 2004
- 4,359
- 1
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F*ck Alberto Gonzales. These so-called "new concervatives" have utterly ripped the guts out of the GOP.
Most people under 40 these days don't know what a conservative is.
There is a reason the Reagan administration called the neo-cons "The Crazies".
Most people under 40 these days don't know what a conservative is.
There is a reason the Reagan administration called the neo-cons "The Crazies".
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