Alabama passed a near-total abortion ban with no exceptions for rape or incest

[Starbuck1975]

Because privacy is privacy. Whether it's who you choose for a mate, how many children you choose to have, what kind of job you have, your medical condition, or your financial privacy. Privacy is privacy. What part of that is confusing to you?

The real irony, is that you're not even talking about YOUR privacy. I'm sure you would pitch a fit if someone posted your bank statements online, or your medical history, (which actually might be a little bit closer to the topic, since it's all medical.) You're talking about your right to interfere in the privacy of another.

And there is no such thing as an "unborn" child.



Oh you know that's totally right around the corner. And if the kids don't die out fast enough from that, you're going to find a whole lot a little bodies floating in the Mississippi.

Take it out and put it on the ground. If it lives, cool.

If it doesn't, that's the biz.

There's another word for something that lives inside a body, and feeds off of it, while giving nothing back.

PARASITE

A parasite is an organism that lives on or in a host organism and gets its food from or at the expense of its host.

A much more scientifically accurate depiction than "unborn child".

If medical science were to establish the exact moment of consciousness, to call an unborn child a parasite is disingenuous. For the time being, viability seems to be the best compromise. Medical science will inevitably change that standard.

Once you expand the discussion beyond the myopic perspective of privacy, there isn’t much of an argument left.

 

[HomerJS]

The problem with the precedence set by Roe V Wade is that its based on privacy, not science. This is why the trimester framework no longer exists in favor of viability. If science were to establish consciousness in the first trimester, then privacy becomes a secondary consideration to personhood.

What defines consciousness and personhood? Heart beat? Brain function? The ability to feel pain? Hard to say. We extend personhood to people in vegetative states. Dementia and alzheimers rob people of their identity but not their personhood.

Since we don’t know when consciousness begins, I would prefer to err on the side of caution

Eggs or sperm in and of themselves do not deserve the same protections.

Then do that. That is a decision you can make.

Remember what happened when legislators tried to interfere in a family decision concerning a relative in a vegetative state? We got Terry Schivo

 

[Viper1j]

If medical science were to establish the exact moment of consciousness, to call an unborn child a parasite is disingenuous. For the time being, viability seems to be the best compromise. Medical science will inevitably change that standard.

Once you expand the discussion beyond the myopic perspective of privacy, there isn’t much of an argument left.

Are you saying that you don't believe "privacy" should exist in the United States of America?

Are you saying you wouldn't have a problem if all the details of your life, medical, financial, intimate could be accessed by anyone with a quick Google?

Privacy is only "myopic" if it doesn't concern your privacy.

And a creature that meets the scientific definition of something, is that thing. Whether someone gets all warm and fuzzy over it, doesn't change its nature.

Words mean things.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Are you saying that you don't believe "privacy" should exist in the United States of America?

Are you saying you wouldn't have a problem if all the details of your life, medical, financial, intimate could be accessed by anyone with a quick Google?

Privacy is an odd thing. For my employment, I have to answer questions about my background and have to submit to drug tests. Whenever I see a new doctor, I have a number of people asking me questions that are quite invasive, and the answers to those questions reside on systems over which I have no control. At any given moment, someone can track my location using security cameras and the phone I am now typing on. Privacy is no longer a strong enough argument.

And a creature that meets the scientific definition of something, is that thing. Whether someone gets all warm and fuzzy over it, doesn't change its nature.

Words mean things.

That is your disingenuous dismissal of what a fetus is. Talk to any woman who has had a miscarriage and make note of the words they use. Words do have meaning.

 

[Viper1j]

Privacy is an odd thing. For my employment, I have to answer questions about my background and have to submit to drug tests. Whenever I see a new doctor, I have a number of people asking me questions that are quite invasive, and the answers to those questions reside on systems over which I have no control. At any given moment, someone can track my location using security cameras and the phone I am now typing on. Privacy is no longer a strong enough argument.

That is your disingenuous dismissal of what a fetus is. Talk to any woman who has had a miscarriage and make note of the words they use. Words do have meaning.

Ask your gastroenterologist. There's good bacteria and bad bacteria. Just because one can kill you and the other can save you doesn't change its nature.

How you feel about something doesn't change what it is. You cry your eyes out over a miscarriage, it's a sad thing because you wanted the parasite until it wasn't one anymore. That doesn't stop it from being what it is.

Cancer fits the same definition of a parasite as a fetus. It's alive, it feeds on its host. Maybe we should ban cancer abortion. All life is "a gift from God" (sarcasm).

 

[dank69]

Uhhh... you realize... rape itself... is still a crime, right? Even after AL passed this ridiculous bill.

They might remove the ability to abort for rape victims (which i completely disagree with)... but they still will be locked away in "pound me in the ass" prison for the act itself.

So what? We are talking about an end goal of procreating, so no matter what happens to the rapist, his goal has been met. Additionally, how difficult do you think it is to get away with rape? Not so difficult if you pick random victims with no previous connection to you.

 

[soulcougher73]

Coming soon to a red state near you...

 

[Starbuck1975]

Ask your gastroenterologist. There's good bacteria and bad bacteria. Just because one can kill you and the other can save you doesn't change its nature.

How you feel about something doesn't change what it is. You cry your eyes out over a miscarriage, it's a sad thing because you wanted the parasite until it wasn't one anymore. That doesn't stop it from being what it is.

Cancer fits the same definition of a parasite as a fetus. It's alive, it feeds on its host. Maybe we should ban cancer abortion. All life is "a gift from God" (sarcasm).

Yes a fetus and cancer are the same. Maybe we should be having the same conversation about the elderly and the parasitic burden they place on society. I could go for some Boomer soylent green.

 

[theeedude]

This should do wonders for GOP with suburban women they lost in 2018.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Michigan state legislator: Procedures to terminate pregnancies should be paiinful.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...says-procedure

Because Eve.

Right?

 

[VRAMdemon]

In this country, where a politician stands on this issue can make or break his/her career regardless of where s/he stands on other issues. It is entirely a political affair. It has nothing to do with babies. If men could suddenly become pregnant, abortions would be legal, fully insured and available at every Target. Old white Christian men keeping god-fearing women in their place in the voting booths.

 

[soundforbjt]

Just heard Missouri and Louisiana are following Alabama’s lead.

 

[darkswordsman17]

In fact, the world's terrorists should take note of this.

Instead of Al Queda hatching convoluted bomb plots, just get your guys on a plane to Alabama for a rape spree.

Buildings get rebuilt, deaths are mourned, but society moves on, even forgets.

But the town having to care for and raise your rape baby? That's a plot that lasts a lifetime...

Nah, if the terrorists want to do some real damage they just need to become lobbyists, push their beliefs but pose as Christians, and give it a couple of decades and you'll get them to completely flip the rhetoric til they're doing your bidding (see Republicans stance on Russia from the 1980s til now).

 

[TheVrolok]

If medical science were to establish the exact moment of consciousness, to call an unborn child a parasite is disingenuous. For the time being, viability seems to be the best compromise. Medical science will inevitably change that standard.

Once you expand the discussion beyond the myopic perspective of privacy, there isn’t much of an argument left.

Be careful what you wish for, the more medical science we have (neuroscience), the more it seems like consciousness may be just an illusion.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Be careful what you wish for, the more medical science we have (neuroscience), the more it seems like consciousness may be just an illusion.

You think that’s air your breathing. It will be very interesting to see what happens to identity once parents can engineer it for their kids.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Listen to this man he is an expert in this field.

Leave it to Quibbles and Bits to try and make a pedantic argument out of defending incels because "duh its right there in the name involuntary", nevermind that's just the label they claim (which, incels are the living embodiment of the victimhood mentality that conservatives whinge about but as is their way misuse by trying to claim it applies to situations where the grievances are faaar more legitimate while ignoring their near constant persecution complex bullshit), and that its only "involuntary" because they don't want to stop being pieces of shit and idiots (gee, if you view women as little more than fuckholes for your pleasure, I just can't imagine why they aren't all over ya).

 

[darkswordsman17]

Well, I'm gonna say the questions (and there are many questions) are clear as mud...

Deportation is a federal matter, not a state one. If SCOTUS overturns Roe v. Wade, the US Congress would need to pass a law saying a zygote/embryo/fetus cannot be deported in order for that to be the case, and the odds of such a law passing are very slim even if there's a GOP-majority in both houses again: 1) Nobody's going to want to force illegal immigrants to get tested for pregnancy and 2) the GOP generally hates that so-called "anchor babies" are American citizens.

I'm not following your logic, but I especially am going to say, yeah Conservatives absolutely would have no problem making immigrants take pregnancy tests (did you see the one sick fuck that is in charge of their "separate families" plan that was tracking the periods of girls that were detained to make sure they didn't have abortions?).

 

[TheVrolok]

You think that’s air your breathing. It will be very interesting to see what happens to identity once parents can engineer it for their kids.

Exactly this! Also, just re-watched the trilogy. For as bad as it is at times, it's held up fairly well.

 

[jackstar7]

How is it any different than Dreamers? Most doctors are able to establish the date of conception to a high degree of accuracy. I suppose this becomes problematic if the date of entry and conception fall within a matter of days, but how many women are going to enter our country and immediately get pregnant? Some may cross within a month of getting pregnant, and those will be handled on a case by case basis.

Will there be outliers and exceptions. Of course, as is the case for most things. If only we had a system to evaluate those scenarios.

What prompts a woman to be examined in the first place? I think you're imagining everyone having access to medical care in equal measure when that's clearly not remotely true.

 

[zinfamous]

This is a victory for the unborn person...

"This is a victory for the unicorn."

Basically the exact same statement.

 

[Starbuck1975]

What prompts a woman to be examined in the first place? I think you're imagining everyone having access to medical care in equal measure when that's clearly not remotely true.

I would imagine establishing citizenship of her unborn child would be motivation enough. Maybe Planned Parenthood could pivot to provide those services, as the market has in the past to meet a need.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Exactly this! Also, just re-watched the trilogy. For as bad as it is at times, it's held up fairly well.

I’ve never understood the hate directed at the sequels, its one of my favorite fictional universes.

 

[HomerJS]

I’ve never understood the hate directed at the sequels, its one of my favorite fictional universes.

Since you are in favor of the government intruding into the womb of women are you on board with them keeping a count of the number sperm you secret after jerking off or having sex? Seems fair if they are intruding on women. After all shouldn't we keep count of all those precious eggs and sperm?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Since you are in favor of the government intruding into the womb of women are you on board with them keeping a count of the number sperm you secret after jerking off or having sex? Seems fair if they are intruding on women. After all shouldn't we keep count of all those precious eggs and sperm?

I already said earlier in the thread that the discussion of life begins after conception based around a scientific consensus around conciousness as it relates to personhood.

Do you wear a fitbit?

 

[TheVrolok]

I’ve never understood the hate directed at the sequels, its one of my favorite fictional universes.

I don't think the sequels quite match up the original (although perhaps because no longer novel), but overall I agree. Really interesting series.