Al Qaeda kill 12 in France

[AznAnarchy99]

We said the same thing several years ago, while we were also quietly wetting ourselves and begging the government to watch us day and night.


With any luck they won't follow a similar path. :\

Well Europe's idea of government is very different from ours.

 

[maddogchen]

another french police officer was shot today. the suspect ran away and they don't know if its related.

they've brought in 800 military to help them patrol Paris. Crazy.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well Europe's idea of government is very different from ours.

Except for the UK there are fewer explicit protections in their constitutions, however their governments have systems which hold their politicians and parties accountable while in office, and also they have better representation in general. "Winner takes all" is as foolish a thing as there could be. When politicians and by extension governments are virtually impossible to control properly then what is written in any constitution matters less over time.

The UK has become Orwells 1984. The government feels like it needs more rights and their citizens less. All you have to do is look at their "terror" initiatives.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So you think turning someone into dust via a hellfire missile from a Predator or Reaper drone by a technician hundreds or a thousand miles away is more humane than cutting them up with a sword or knife?

You can argue if it's any more wrong or right, but being blown to bits is more humane than a knife or sword. You can make the process of dying far worse with the latter.

 

[Ruptga]

Yeah, lumping the UK in with continental Europe is a gross oversimplification. There's even quite a bit of diversity in continental politics, but the UK has always stood apart more than the rest. Ex: still using £ instead of €, still opting out of the Schengen Agreement, and supporting our stupid invasion of Iraq.

 

[Dari]

Good for them. If that had happened over here we would already be in the process of inventing a new security agency and voting a blank check to our executives and spies.

Like this new law?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-law-aids-charlie-hebdo-hunt-1420726705?ref=/home-page

New Law Aids Charlie Hebdo Hunt
French Authorities Have a Powerful New Surveillance Law in Their Arsenal
As the manhunt continues for two brothers suspected in an attack against French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, French authorities have a powerful weapon in their arsenal: a broad new surveillance law.

The controversial law, passed in late 2013 and put into effect on Jan. 1, gives French investigators more latitude to collect data in real time about individuals’ phone and Internet traffic.
With approval from an official appointed by the prime minister, French investigators can demand that telecommunications and Internet firms turn over the location of individuals’ mobile phones and Internet addresses. They can request user names and bank details along with information about what their targets are doing online and who they are communicating with.

“We’re using everything we can,” said one French official in reference to the ongoing manhunt.

Aimed at speeding approval of surveillance requests, the law has raised hackles among privacy advocates and technology executives in part because it sidesteps judicial review. But intelligence and law-enforcement officials say the new rules bolster their vital ability to gather and connect digital bread crumbs from various sources to help them zero in on a target.

Combining everything from traffic cameras and satellite images to IP addresses and chat logs can help, intelligence officials say. Following the deadly 2013 bombing at the Boston Marathon and subsequent manhunt for the brothers suspected in the attack, U.S. investigators used various data streams including camera footage and scans of mobile phone traffic.

“There will be an analysis of every phone call and every ID used to try and track down the command and control,” said Ed Davis, who was Boston’s police commissioner at the time.

Tracing cellphone locations and scouring text messages and social media has become standard practice in French law-enforcement probes. “We combine it all, and we’re getting really effective at it,” said a former French intelligence official...

 

[lupi]

Lol

 

[Ruptga]

Nah, that one was already on the books. While Europe's governments do work a lot differently than ours, our spy agencies are more similar than they want to admit.

 

[Dari]

Nah, that one was already on the books. While Europe's governments do work a lot differently than ours, our spy agencies are more similar than they want to admit.

Count your blessings you live here and not there. Europe is over-regulated.

 

[feralkid]

Breaking news, France has surrendered. Broke the record for longest war france had ever participated in by 5.5 hours.

Stop repeating that stupid joke.

It's factually incorrect and incredibly insensitive.

 

[zinfamous]

I wouldn't call them "savages". Whether killing someone hundreds of miles away on a computer screen via a Predator/Reaper drone or doing it with a knife, death is death. If anything, killing someone from such a distance is no different from doing it by committee without being in the same room or hearing the shrieking. It's worse than doing it in person, where you can examine life exit the body.

However, this act of murder today over cartoons goes to show that muslims have no intention of assimilating in the West. The Arab spring also shows that the Arab world isn't ready to separate religion from politics.

there's a solar system of difference between targeted killing of terrorists determined to commit murder, and targeted killings of innocent civilians, to justify revenge for your particular space zombie/diety.

This has nothing to do with the manner of death. they are savages because they are savages.

 

[Dari]

You can argue if it's any more wrong or right, but being blown to bits is more humane than a knife or sword. You can make the process of dying far worse with the latter.

I don't know. When my time comes, I want to look my killer in the eyes as he takes my life. I want to understand the end and come to terms with it. What I don't want is to be sitting in a cafe one minute and, poof, I'm vapor. Hearing their insanity is better than not knowing, imho. I think it's no different from loved ones wanting bodies to bury or answers as to why someone they love was killed.

 

[zinfamous]

You don't?

actually read an interesting article on the reality of drone warfare within the towns and villages of Pakistan.

The misconception is that you are minding your business, when out of nowhere, a missile screams from the heavens blowing you and/or your neighbor to bits, perhaps so quickly that you never knew it was there.

This is not what happens.

Drones hover near their targets for days, and are not silent. They essentially stalk the village, waiting for confirmation on target identity, location, and safest time to strike (of course this doesn't always work out, but that's another discussion).

What this means is that for days at a time, everyone in that village hears this dull hum over their head, and often sees it, just waiting. Of course, no one knows when it will strike, where it will strike; and there isn't a thing they can do about it. Of course they know, as we know, that sometimes we have the wrong target, and even if we don't, innocents will be killed. Imagine the children in those villages, living in constant fear.

Also, consider that the intelligence necessary to identify targets and locations requires ground confirmation--spies, essentially. Snitches. And the Taliban/Al Qaeda know this. So now, as a loal villager, you are 2nd kind of potential target.

To me, this would be unimaginably terrifying.

Anyway, here it is. it's quite chilling:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/unblinking-stare

Being attacked by a drone is not the same as being bombed by a jet. With drones, there is typically a much longer prelude to violence. Above North Waziristan, drones circled for hours, or even days, before striking. People below looked up to watch the machines, hovering at about twenty thousand feet, capable of unleashing fire at any moment, like dragon’s breath. “Drones may kill relatively few, but they terrify many more,” Malik Jalal, a tribal leader in North Waziristan, told me. “They turned the people into psychiatric patients. The F-16s might be less accurate, but they come and go.” Predator and Reaper drones emit what, on the ground, sounds like a flat, gnawing buzz. (Locals sometimes refer to a drone as a bangana, a Pashto word for “wasp.”) “In the night, we have seen many times the missile streaking,” Ihsan Dawar, a Pakistani reporter from North Waziristan, told me. “It creates a whoosh-like sound coming out.”
The targeted killing of Taliban and Al Qaeda members had a boomerang effect: it spurred the militants to try to identify spies who might have betrayed them. Around North Waziristan’s main towns, Miranshah and Mir Ali, which took the brunt of the strikes, paranoia spread.
The Taliban blamed local maliks, government-subsidized tribal leaders who had long presided over the area’s war economy—smuggling, arms dealing, mining, and government contracting—often by engaging in corruption. Taliban gunmen seeking control of local rackets executed maliks and their family members in the hundreds. In local bazaars, the Taliban distributed DVDs of their socially superior victims confessing that they had spied for C.I.A. drone operators.
The confessions included elaborate narratives about how the agency supposedly distributed “chips,” or homing beacons, to local spies. The spy would toss a chip over a neighbor’s wall or into a Taliban jeep, to guide drone missiles to it. The men also confessed that the C.I.A. had given out special pens with invisible ink which were used to mark Taliban vehicles for destruction.
According to the accounts of former detainees, the Taliban tortured their prisoners, so the confessions can hardly be taken at face value. The Taliban also had a powerful motive to force the maliks to admit to spying: such confessions “take the edge off the revenge motivation of the malik’s tribe and family,” a researcher who grew up in North Waziristan and works in development in Islamabad told me. “People see the video and say, ‘Oh, well, if he was a spy tossing around chips, then he deserves to die.’ ”

Have a pleasant evening!

 

[highland145]

I don't know. When my time comes, I want to look my killer in the eyes as he takes my life. I want to understand the end and come to terms with it. What I don't want is to be sitting in a cafe one minute and, poof, I'm vapor. Hearing their insanity is better than not knowing, imho. I think it's no different from loved ones wanting bodies to bury or answers as to why someone they love was killed.

And after about 4 sec of him sawing on your neck with a butter knife, you'll change your mind.

Or the slow burning of your body party.

Or the crushing you with a tank, feet 1st.

I'm thinking vapor would be a good thing compared to that.

But if you don't feel any pain, it might be interesting to ponder how your body reacts to the abuse.

 

[zinfamous]

I don't know. When my time comes, I want to look my killer in the eyes as he takes my life. I want to understand the end and come to terms with it. What I don't want is to be sitting in a cafe one minute and, poof, I'm vapor. Hearing their insanity is better than not knowing, imho. I think it's no different from loved ones wanting bodies to bury or answers as to why someone they love was killed.

I don't disagree to some degree, but this is really just silly romanticism. You really aren't going to care after you die.

What benefit do you gain during the 2 seconds of death from seeing some psycopath run you through that you don't have from a 2 second screech before you vaporize?

 

[Ns1]

actually read an interesting article on the reality of drone warfare within the towns and villages of Pakistan.

The misconception is that you are minding your business, when out of nowhere, a missile screams from the heavens blowing you and/or your neighbor to bits, perhaps so quickly that you never knew it was there.

This is not what happens.

Drones hover near their targets for days, and are not silent. They essentially stalk the village, waiting for confirmation on target identity, location, and safest time to strike (of course this doesn't always work out, but that's another discussion).

What this means is that for days at a time, everyone in that village hears this dull hum over their head, and often sees it, just waiting. Of course, no one knows when it will strike, where it will strike; and there isn't a thing they can do about it. Of course they know, as we know, that sometimes we have the wrong target, and even if we don't, innocents will be killed. Imagine the children in those villages, living in constant fear.

Also, consider that the intelligence necessary to identify targets and locations requires ground confirmation--spies, essentially. Snitches. And the Taliban/Al Qaeda know this. So now, as a loal villager, you are 2nd kind of potential target.

To me, this would be unimaginably terrifying.

Anyway, here it is. it's quite chilling:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/unblinking-stare



Have a pleasant evening!

interesting. thx for the link.

 

[Ichinisan]

I don't know. When my time comes, I want to look my killer in the eyes as he takes my life. I want to understand the end and come to terms with it. What I don't want is to be sitting in a cafe one minute and, poof, I'm vapor. Hearing their insanity is better than not knowing, imho. I think it's no different from loved ones wanting bodies to bury or answers as to why someone they love was killed.

Do terrorists deserve to die in the way of their own choosing?

OK. But you're the one who has to go there and kill them in direct hand-to-hand combat. Go on now. Go.

 

[Dari]

I don't disagree to some degree, but this is really just silly romanticism. You really aren't going to care after you die.

What benefit do you gain during the 2 seconds of death from seeing some psycopath run you through that you don't have from a 2 second screech before you vaporize?

It's not romanticism. Have you ever seen someone die? I have. It's a process. They don't just die, per se. First, they go into shock. Then a coma. These two events are to shut down every non-vital activity and preserve life, or what's left of it. During the shock the person is still aware. Less so, for the coma, even if in a vegetable state. Those two states can last a long time, hours if in a war zone. So, when people are picking you up and putting you in a truck to take you to a makeshift morgue, you may still be conscious, trying to process all that has just happened. Most likely, your brain is preparing for death. You may have dream after dream as more body parts go. Then it's lights out. The act of instant vaporization does not allow such a process.

Anyway, my point was not to defend any criminal act. It was to refute the notion that instant death is more "humane".

 

[Ns1]

The act of instant vaporization does not allow such a process.

yeah I'll still take that over getting my neck sliced and decapitated with a rusty knife, thanks.

 

[Dari]

yeah I'll still take that over getting my neck sliced and decapitated with a rusty knife, thanks.

Believe it or not but you don't feel that. Your body prevents itself from registering such a massive amount of pain. It simply puts you in a state a shock.

 

[Ns1]

Believe it or not but you don't feel that. Your body prevents itself from registering such a massive amount of pain. It simply puts you in a state a shock.

Sounds lovely.

/sarcasm

 

[highland145]

It's not romanticism. Have you ever seen someone die? I have. It's a process. They don't just die, per se. First, they go into shock. Then a coma. These two events are to shut down every non-vital activity and preserve life, or what's left of it. During the shock the person is still aware. Less so, for the coma, even if in a vegetable state. Those two states can last a long time, hours if in a war zone. So, when people are picking you up and putting you in a truck to take you to a makeshift morgue, you may still be conscious, trying to process all that has just happened. Most likely, your brain is preparing for death. You may have dream after dream as more body parts go. Then it's lights out. The act of instant vaporization does not allow such a process.

Anyway, my point was not to defend any criminal act. It was to refute the notion that instant death is more "humane".

And you're still wrong.

 

[Ruptga]

And you're still wrong.

About basically everything, again.

 

[highland145]

Believe it or not but you don't feel that. Your body prevents itself from registering such a massive amount of pain. It simply puts you in a state a shock.

LOLOLOL

You are a different individual, Dari.

 

[Dari]

LOLOLOL

You are a different individual, Dari.

If there are any medical doctors here perhaps they can give their professional opinion...