Al Franken accused of kissing and groping radio host. Will resign.

[Blackjack200]

One more.

In one of multiple lengthy phone calls with a CNN reporter this week, Kemplin repeatedly broke into sobs.
"I was in a war zone... You were on a USO tour -- are you trying to boost the morale of the troops or are you trying to boost your own?" she said. "I just feel so sorry for that young girl in that picture."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/politics/al-franken-groping-allegation/index.html

 

[werepossum]

Just so I can keep up is Snopes now believable because it said what conservatives want to hear? BTW I don't see a reason to disagree with the conclusion its just humorous that the accuracy of Snopes among those with a conservative bent is highly dependent on they get the answer they want.

How about when even Snopes says a leftie did something wrong, it's pretty clear that he or she did something wrong. It would be akin to the NRA admitting that someone on the right (and strong on Second Amendment rights) did something wrong.

 

[werepossum]

Well, yeah, at first my thought was maybe she was in on the joke, which would be a different thing entirely. But it seems it was actually a misjudged and crass joke of Franken's, with an obvious element of aggression behind it.

Still not quite 'groping' though, which is how it keeps being described. It's a bad-taste joke about groping. Joking about a bad thing like that is itself bad, but it's not the thing it's joking about.

Everyone in any position of power is at risk of abusing it. None of us are morally infallible, whatever our purported politics, and different forms of power operate at right-angles (e.g. plenty of feminists are racists, plenty of leftists are sexist, etc).

At the moment, I don't think he should resign, I think he should eat humble pie and apologise and make it clear he realises why it was a crass thing to do though.

To me the picture is evidence of not groping; there is clearly no contact with the left hand, so I can't imagine there was contact with the right hand. I very much doubt that Franken was taking any chance of waking her with his hands on her breasts after she so firmly rejected his advances. Although she was clearly humiliated by the picture - as most women would naturally be - I tend to believe Franken when he said the intent was to be funny rather than to humiliate her.

 

[werepossum]

I'm fine with all of this, but I wonder at what point regular jokes between people simply become sleaze because someone wants to call it sleaze? Not to say that there isn't real sleaze in this places--obviously there is--but where is that line? I haven't been aware of Franken having a history of being a sleazy dude. The Behar thing is almost certainly a joke between people. It seems that the photographer for this photo claims it was staged--she wasn't really asleep and that was part of it--but it seems she claims otherwise? I don't know, honestly. I did initially think it strange for her to be sitting there slouching and actually sleeping...seemingly on her own? I don't know, could have certainly been exhausted if after a long day.

The claim that the photographer who took the picture claims it was staged (and her idea) is nothing more than a specious and clumsy defence by someone who doesn't think fast enough to be politically useful. In the first place, no one will admit to having taken it. In the second place, Franken had already apologized for it. Ergo that claim is constructed from whole cloth for political cover.

As far as "regular jokes", very often they are sleaze with which not everyone is comfortable from the get go. I have a friend who became head nurse in a local hospital surgical unit a decade or so back. They had an OR practice where the male doctors would "pants" the women, literally yanking their scrubs down around their ankles. (I don't think the few female doctors had been pantsed, but every one of the nurses had been.) Everyone there would laugh their asses off while the woman furiously pulled her pants back up. The first time that happened in her presence she went Nicole on them all, read them the riot act and told the doctor responsible that if anything even remotely like that ever happened again, she would make absolutely certain that he would not only be fired for cause, but that the exact act would be reported (along with a pattern of such behavior statement) and would be filed in his folder, which would make him absolutely unemployable. (Except by government or in short term temp contracts.) This is not an empty threat; the doctors all knew exactly that would happen if it were reported as a formal complaint. While some of the women and a few of the male doctors remaining very cold to her for the rest of the time she was there, plenty of others privately thanked her for stopping it. Even though no one was complaining, a LOT of the people were highly bothered by it. I think that happens a lot more than people like to admit.

 

[fskimospy]

How about when even Snopes says a leftie did something wrong, it's pretty clear that he or she did something wrong. It would be akin to the NRA admitting that someone on the right (and strong on Second Amendment rights) did something wrong.

Haha, perfect maintenance of the bubble. When Snopes says a conservative did something wrong it's because they are liberally biased and can't be trusted. When Snopes points out that a liberal did something wrong that doesn't show Snopes is unbiased, it shows that the liberal must have done something REALLY bad if something as biased as Snopes said it.

This reminds me of the Clinton Foundation thing where you had found perfectly circular logic so no matter what the outcome the conclusion is the same. Clinton helped the Russians get uranium? That shows she's corrupt because she helped them after being paid off. Clinton didn't help the Russians get uranium? That shows she's corrupt because she must have required money to not hurt them!

 

[woolfe9998]

While I was on the fence after the first allegation, I arrived at the conclusion that he should resign after the second allegation came out. I'm way beyond that now.

 

[werepossum]

That is a fair point and I am happy you that you made it. We need conservatives to point out our hypocrisy to keep us honest. Like I said, I am undecided on Franken and would like to see the results of an investigation.

The thing that irritates me about Moore so much is his moral superiority in matters of sex. Moore has made a career out of poking into people's bedrooms, Franken hasn't. I have a hard bias against people who want to legislate against consensual sexual relationships between adults. That bias may indeed be coming into play when evaluating these two men. I know that I have already been convinced that Moore is a sexual predator and certainly am not convinced with Franken.

The thing that will sink Moore will be his own statement: "I never dated a girl without her mother's permission." That implies both that he dated girls who were underage and that he dated girls without fathers present, because even forty years ago most fathers would fucking kill a 30 year old man asking permission to date their sixteen year old daughter. That's just plain sleazy, even if he were a perfect gentleman, and that is in HIS words, not an accuser's. Even if he pulls out this election, he will be primaried in the regular. Same for Jones - this little trick gives him a chance, but no way does he keep the seat. (Unless the Dems take power and Virginia-ize Alabama, legalizing felons and/or allowing illegals to vote.)

As far as Franken, I have a real problem taking any action (beyond investigation) against anyone simply because of allegations. If the voters want to kick him out next election, I'm down with that - I never liked him anyway. Same with a recall election. But I very much suspect that Franken is by far not the worst. Ted Kennedy was a notorious groper and died in office after decades. Bob Packwood was a notorious groper for decades and only got kicked out when the Pubbies took power and he became their potential embarrassment rather than Congress' as a whole. I think voting out men like this can only be a good thing, but if we're gonna do it, let's do it across the board, not simply whack the moles that pop up and pat ourselves on the back. And even voting, let's all remember that accusations are cheap and that many actions can be innocently but totally misconstrued. I think it's pretty sleazy for Franken to stick his tongue down that woman's throat, but hell, maybe he thought that would be funny too.

 

[werepossum]

Haha, perfect maintenance of the bubble. When Snopes says a conservative did something wrong it's because they are liberally biased and can't be trusted. When Snopes points out that a liberal did something wrong that doesn't show Snopes is unbiased, it shows that the liberal must have done something REALLY bad if something as biased as Snopes said it.

This reminds me of the Clinton Foundation thing where you had found perfectly circular logic so no matter what the outcome the conclusion is the same. Clinton helped the Russians get uranium? That shows she's corrupt because she helped them after being paid off. Clinton didn't help the Russians get uranium? That shows she's corrupt because she must have required money to not hurt them!

As usual, you are incapable of understanding either point. Snopes is a liberal organization; they naturally are more easily convinced that conservatives are guilty and liberals are innocent. That speaks to level of evidence, NOT to level of severity. As to Hillary, please feel free to feel that these supposedly worst people in the world giving millions to the Clinton Family Foundation is totally coincidental to the business they had with one of those Clintons. If nothing else, it amuses the rest of us.

 

[werepossum]

Chaotic42, how many times did you have to read that before you figured out that Senator Bob Taft wasn't his first true love? Too many times, Other Chaotic42, too many times.

lol Yeah, one thing O'Neill lacks is the ability to write a clear sentence.

 

[fskimospy]

As usual, you are incapable of understanding either point. Snopes is a liberal organization; they naturally are more easily convinced that conservatives are guilty and liberals are innocent. That speaks to level of evidence, NOT to level of severity.

Thank you for so clearly proving my point. You declare Snopes to be liberal based on nothing and, in fact, in the face of independent evaluations of their work. This makes you immune to any uncomfortable thoughts that the reason you think they are biased is your own extreme bias, not theirs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes.com#Accuracy

Now I have no doubt you will declare those independent evaluators liberally biased too, which will not only reinforce my point, but be extremely funny.

As to Hillary, please feel free to feel that these supposedly worst people in the world giving millions to the Clinton Family Foundation is totally coincidental to the business they had with one of those Clintons. If nothing else, it amuses the rest of us.

It certainly amuses me how you convinced yourself that Clinton acted corruptly both if she acted and if she did not act. Perfect epistemic closure.

 

[werepossum]

Oh my she's a busy little girl. So sweet, so pure, so slutty.

Ah, there's the left that so supports women. Unless they are nuns, they are fair game.

 

[werepossum]

Thank you for so clearly proving my point. You declare Snopes to be liberal based on nothing and, in fact, in the face of independent evaluations of their work. This makes you immune to any uncomfortable thoughts that the reason you think they are biased is your own extreme bias, not theirs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes.com#Accuracy

Now I have no doubt you will declare those independent evaluators liberally biased too, which will not only reinforce my point, but be extremely funny.

It certainly amuses me how you convinced yourself that Clinton acted corruptly both if she acted and if she did not act. Perfect epistemic closure.

lol Clearly no one can argue with wikipedia.

 

[fskimospy]

lol Clearly no one can argue with wikipedia.

You're right, who are factcheck and actual newspapers as sources as compared to 'things the voices in werepossum's head tell him'?

 

[werepossum]

Isn't one of the whole premises behind the current movement that the past expectations and perceptions are unfair and inappropriate? I would consider it weird and inappropriate if a random woman grabbed me and kissed me. Imagine that soldier had a wife and family back home and they saw this kiss without context.

That's certainly a valid point, but I daresay most of us men have had women unexpectedly kiss us or attempt to kiss us. Men being by far the stronger sex, unless we are taken completely by surprise they are easily prevented from doing so.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Ah, there's the left that so supports women. Unless they are nuns, they are fair game.

Nope. I immediately called that out and in no way do I support leveraging her kissing, touching, etc, when it is clearly her choice as a weapon against her. That's bullshit, it always has been and it always will be.

 

[Thebobo]

Ah, there's the left that so supports women. Unless they are nuns, they are fair game.

Bad hair day today? And yes I support slutty women.

 

[hal2kilo]

While I was on the fence after the first allegation, I arrived at the conclusion that he should resign after the second allegation came out. I'm way beyond that now.

Yep, it's no longer just a little grab for a joke. I hate this, but I will put country before party and now say that Al has to go.

 

[bshole]

Bad hair day today? And yes I support slutty women.

LoL! I would never gotten through college without them!

 

[HomerJS]

Ah, there's the left that so supports women. Unless they are nuns, they are fair game.

Absent the "slutty: remark which was tongue in cheek (no pun intended) point was that soldier clearly didn't know the kiss was coming. What if he was gay? While most hetero men would be ok with it myself included a gay man might be repulsed.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Another article on the fifth victim, Kemplin according to the BBC news article:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42185728

A US army veteran is accusing Senator Al Franken of having touched her breast while posing for a photo on a 2003 tour to entertain troops in Kuwait.

Stephanie Kemplin, a 27-year-old military police officer at the time, says she was left feeling frozen.

She is the fifth woman to have accused Mr Franken of inappropriate touching.

Referring to the latest accusation, Mr Franken's spokesperson told CNN that he "has never intentionally engaged in this kind of conduct".

"As Sen Franken made clear this week, he takes thousands of photos and has met tens of thousands of people... He remains fully committed to co-operating with the ethics investigation," the spokesperson said.

In a press conference on his return to Washington earlier this week, the Minnesota Democrat said he was "ashamed" of his past behaviour.

• 'MeToo' and the scale of sexual abuse
• Second woman accuses congressman Conyers

Ms Kemplin told CNN that she was a longtime fan of Saturday Night Live, the TV programme that Mr Franken had been a writer for, and added that she had stood in line for a photo with Mr Franken.

"I was in a warzone," she recalled in a tearful interview, questioning whether the former comedian had come to "boost the morale of the troops or are you trying to boost your own".

"When he put his arm around me, he groped my right breast," she said.

"He kept his hand all the way over on my breast," she said, adding that she felt "embarrassed" afterwards.

"And I remember thinking - is he going to move his hand? Was it an accident? Was he going to move his hand? He never moved his hand.

"It was long enough that he should have known if it was an accident. I'm very confident saying that."

• Roy Moore's accuser: I was a child
• George Bush Snr accused by interpreter

Media captionFranken accuser: I was disgusted
Mr Franken has now been accused of inappropriate touching by five women. Two incidents relate to United Service Organizations tours of the Middle East and Afghanistan.

The accusations came to light after a radio host in California, Leeann Tweeden, wrote an article about how Mr Franken had made unwanted sexual advances during a 2006 military tour to entertain US troops.

Mr Franken "forcibly" kissed her while they rehearsed for a comedy skit to perform before US troops stationed in Kuwait, and also had a photo taken of him appearing to grope Ms Tweeden's breast as she slept on a military plane.

Mr Franken apologised to her for the photo but said he remembered the rehearsal differently.

Image copyright KABC
Image caption Franken said the photo "was clearly intended to be funny but wasn't"
Mr Franken also said he did not recall the encounters with the other women, who each said he had touched their buttocks during photo ops.

An editorial in Mr Franken's hometown newspaper, the Minneapolis Star Tribune. on Monday said Mr Franken's apology failed the "full candor test" and "he seems to be saying, 'I'm sorry for what you think I did'".

"Can one credibly apologise for acts without acknowledging they occurred?" the editorial board asked.

Mr Franken is not the only senior Democratic lawmaker in Washington facing accusations of groping.

Michigan Congressman John Conyers stepped down from a powerful Congressional committee after he was accused by former staff members of touching them, and requesting sexual favours. In a series of tweets, he denied the allegations.

Buzzfeed News revealed last week that he had paid a $27,000 (£20,000) legal settlement with one accuser. Mr Conyers has acknowledged the 2015 payment but denied misconduct.

 

[WHAMPOM]

If boobs and butts of the female gender are not designed to be touched what good are they? They are as a fact of human evolution examples of sexually evolved male attractants.

 

[K1052]

Senators Gillibrand, McCaskill, Hassan, and Hirono now calling for Franken to resign.

Looks like the Dems are starting to clean house.

 

[K1052]

Up to 5 now with Patty Murray.

 

[K1052]

Now 6 with Kamala Harris

 

[alien42]

looks like Franken won't be around much longer.

meanwhile, the child molester in Alabama has full support of trump and the GOP.