Airbus A320 crashes in French Alps

[MomentsofSanity]

how did they know the override code was blocked?

they haven't found the flight recorder yet.
just the voice recorder.

I don't know for sure, obviously, that this is the case but there is a little switch in the cockpit of an A320 for the door with three settings. Normal, lock and unlock. It's not that hard to disable the door.

 

[CZroe]

how did they know the override code was blocked?

they haven't found the flight recorder yet.
just the voice recorder.

Because he couldn't get in and resorted to banging.

 

[Jaskalas]

Could have had a heart attack. Who knows.

The audio recording appears to make it clear: They report he was quiet and in control. "Breathing normally".

 

[Subyman]

The audio recording appears to make it clear: They report he was quiet and in control. "Breathing normally".

I don't know how they jumped to "in control" from someone breathing normally. You can be passed out and still breath normally.

 

[CZroe]

I don't know how they jumped to "in control" from someone breathing normally. You can be passed out and still breath normally.

No. Your breathing slows. Just what do you think they meant by "breathing normally?!" He did not panic and he did not slow.

 

[Subyman]

No. Your breathing slows. Just what do you think they meant by "breathing normally?!" He did not panic and he did not slow.

So? This all sounds like more conjecture. I'd think someone getting ready to drive a plane into the ground would have worked up their breathing. Either way seems strange. "Breathing normally" passed out or getting ready to murder 150+ people while committing suicide.

 

[Remobz]

Nope, just a random religion white dude.

On another forum, one guy said that it is because of radical Islamic terrorists that they died. Before 9/11 it was not that difficult to break open a cockpit door. These days it is VERY difficult to do so.

Indirect death of innocent people due to radical Islam😀

 

[zinfamous]

Could have had a heart attack. Who knows.

Uh, they have the cockpit recorder, folks. It is known for a fact that co-pilot intentionally locked the pilot out, shut-off autopilot, and forced the rapid descent into the mountain.

I believe they have actual audio of what was going on in and around the cockpit.

 

[Subyman]

Uh, they have the cockpit recorder, folks. It is known for a fact that co-pilot intentionally locked the pilot out, shut-off autopilot, and forced the rapid descent into the mountain.

I believe they have actual audio of what was going on in and around the cockpit.

Link? I'd like to read a decent article about it.

 

[master_shake_]

On another forum, one guy said that it is because of radical Islamic terrorists that they died. Before 9/11 it was not that difficult to break open a cockpit door. These days it is VERY difficult to do so.

Indirect death of innocent people due to radical Islam😀

it's like that game six degrees of kevin bacon.

 

[CZroe]

So? This all sounds like more conjecture. I'd think someone getting ready to drive a plane into the ground would have worked up their breathing. Either way seems strange. "Breathing normally" passed out or getting ready to murder 150+ people while committing suicide.

He did not have labored breathing or panicked breathing. They know the cadence of conscious breathing. His breathing did not slow. He had to override to block the other pilot. Process of elimination tells us that he remained conscious and in control, therefore, his silence was also deliberate.

 

[abj13]

No. Your breathing slows.

There's no such thing as a pattern to "unconscious breathing." You could be totally unconscious, say in diabetic ketoacidosis or actively herniating, and your breathing could be very rapid despite being unconscious. In fact, you can be actively herniating, unconscious, and still have normal breathing. Considering the breathing center in the brain stem is separate from the cortex, you could easily have pathology in one location (cortex) leading to unconsciousness, and still have stable and routine breathing function, because it is located at a completely different location.

 

[moonbogg]

His speech patterns did change before the crash. His sentences were shorter and more brief. That tells me he was experiencing some emotional peak of some kind or his thoughts were occupied.

 

[Jaskalas]

There's no such thing as a pattern to "unconscious breathing." You could be totally unconscious, say in diabetic ketoacidosis or actively herniating, and your breathing could be very rapid despite being unconscious. In fact, you can be actively herniating, unconscious, and still have normal breathing. Considering the breathing center in the brain stem is separate from the cortex, you could easily have pathology in one location (cortex) leading to unconsciousness, and still have stable and routine breathing function, because it is located at a completely different location.

So there's some scenario where the pilot is locked out, the copilot has a... stroke, becomes confused, and thinks he is landing the plane? Without audible indication from him that anything is wrong?

I'm not buying it, and I believe his actions were deliberate.

 

[Genx87]

So there's some scenario where the pilot is locked out, the copilot has a... stroke, becomes confused, and thinks he is landing the plane? Without audible indication from him that anything is wrong?

I'm not buying it, and I believe his actions were deliberate.

How about a scenario where there is a failure and the pilot is attempting to bring the plane down in an orderly fashion? In the process is so focused on his job he tunes out somebody banging on the door?

Would you consider descending via auto-pilot at a defined rate + slowing the plane to be orderly?

It will be interesting to see what happens as the investigation moves forward. It seems awfully early for a prosecutor to declare the reason for the plane crashing. They dont even have the second black box yet.

 

[moonbogg]

Imagine if the A320 copilot was on Chantix or something and it made him suicidal?

 

[Jaskalas]

How about a scenario where there is a failure and the pilot is attempting to bring the plane down in an orderly fashion? In the process is so focused on his job he tunes out somebody banging on the door?

Would you consider descending via auto-pilot at a defined rate + slowing the plane to be orderly?

• I consider the descent to be controlled and deliberate.
• The plane auto-alarms if there's a mechanical / flight issue.
• The copilot should let the pilot back inside.
• The copilot should use the radio.

This was no accident where the copilot tried to be a hero.

Mass-killer co-pilot

 

[zinfamous]

Link? I'd like to read a decent article about it.

Not too difficult...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32063587

Even if it was a sudden stroke or heart-attack--would the door have been intentionally locked to completely bar re-entry, autopilot shut off, and descent manually engaged?

We know those things happened. They require a functional human to make these things happen. I don't see an unconscious person being able to override the systems in such a way.

 

[moonbogg]

Massive fallout on that airline or whoever is responsible for letting him fly. They will blame them for letting a mentally ill pilot fly.
Know what I find interesting? How people won't view this copilot as negatively as a typical mass murderer who kills far less people. People who go into schools or malls and shoot and kill maybe 20 people are hated more and considered more evil than this copilot, even though he killed 150 on purpose. I wonder why that is? But it is.

"It has since emerged that the 28-year-old was forced to postpone his pilot training in 2008 because of mental health problems, with a friend saying he was 'in depression.'
The revelation will form a central part of the investigation and raises serious questions about why he was allowed to continue his training and whether enough was done to prevent the disaster."

 

[CZroe]

There's no such thing as a pattern to "unconscious breathing." You could be totally unconscious, say in diabetic ketoacidosis or actively herniating, and your breathing could be very rapid despite being unconscious. In fact, you can be actively herniating, unconscious, and still have normal breathing. Considering the breathing center in the brain stem is separate from the cortex, you could easily have pathology in one location (cortex) leading to unconsciousness, and still have stable and routine breathing function, because it is located at a completely different location.

But he wouldn't be able to actively block the other pilot's entry code. Like I said, it's a confluence of eliminated possibilities. The only ones which remain...

 

[CZroe]

How about a scenario where there is a failure and the pilot is attempting to bring the plane down in an orderly fashion? In the process is so focused on his job he tunes out somebody banging on the door?

Would you consider descending via auto-pilot at a defined rate + slowing the plane to be orderly?

It will be interesting to see what happens as the investigation moves forward. It seems awfully early for a prosecutor to declare the reason for the plane crashing. They dont even have the second black box yet.

Not for 8 minutes.

 

[waggy]

Massive fallout on that airline or whoever is responsible for letting him fly. They will blame them for letting a mentally ill pilot fly.
Know what I find interesting? How people won't view this copilot as negatively as a typical mass murderer who kills far less people. People who go into schools or malls and shoot and kill maybe 20 people are hated more and considered more evil than this copilot, even though he killed 150 on purpose. I wonder why that is? But it is.

nothing is going to happen. the guy was cleared to fly. any other medical info is confidential.

 

[Artorias]

Massive fallout on that airline or whoever is responsible for letting him fly. They will blame them for letting a mentally ill pilot fly.
Know what I find interesting? How people won't view this copilot as negatively as a typical mass murderer who kills far less people. People who go into schools or malls and shoot and kill maybe 20 people are hated more and considered more evil than this copilot, even though he killed 150 on purpose. I wonder why that is? But it is.

Its easier to conceptualize death when there are less people involved, say 1-5, more impact when its easier for the brain understand the situation. When it gets to 100+ it sadly just becomes a number, the brain has a hard time grasping the enormity of the situation without say going through an entire albums worth of photos to understand that many people died.

 

[Genx87]

Not for 8 minutes.

That 8 minutes is why I question the current version of events right now. If this guy was suicidal he could had nosed this thing over and slammed it into the earth in less than 2 minutes. Instead there was a controlled descent and slowing of the plane for 8 minutes.

Be interesting to see what the second black box if found tells us.

 

[CZroe]

That 8 minutes is why I question the current version of events right now. If this guy was suicidal he could had nosed this thing over and slammed it into the earth in less than 2 minutes. Instead there was a controlled descent and slowing of the plane for 8 minutes.

Be interesting to see what the second black box if found tells us.

I don't see a problem with it. He wanted to hit the side of a mountain at over 400MPH and it took 8 minutes to get there. If he was struggling THAT much for 8 minutes that he could neither say anything nor let some help in, then it would not have been that controlled. Period.