Airbus A320 crashes in French Alps

[cabri]

Everything is still speculation until they get data from the other recorder.

It is best to wait for the official inquiry results/evaluation - much now will be one upmanship and grandstanding for rumors, tidbits and mis-understood information/data

Remember, how the MH370 speculation that the pilot was in the wrong just because he had a flight sim on his home system.

someone says an offhand remark and it gets repeated/mis-undertood/ treated as gospel or twisted.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Uhm...the speculation(s) that it was deliberate where obviously justified...

Remember - P&N has been very clear: a non Muslim killing people is not a terrorist, he/she is just a crazy person.

 

[Annisman*]

4 minute restroom break + 5 minute lockout = ...
If someone on the other side was keeping him out deliberately the he/she may have done something to reset the time extending the duration of the lockout by another 5 minutes.

My thought is, wouldn't the pilot who was outside the cockpit doing whatever, notice the decrease in elevation right away ? If yes, that should have triggered that something was wrong and to get right back to the cockpit. So what happened, did he not feel his plane descending until last minute ?

 

[moonbogg]

That other plane that went missing in the ocean, that had similar flight patterns, right? Erratic behavior? I pointed that out, but some smart ass in here said something about "Well engine trouble does that or something". Yeah, go to hell whoever that was bitch. I was right. That Indian ocean plane wasn't an "accident' either.
Guess what happens if confidence is lost, not in commercial aircraft, but in the trustworthiness of the pilots themselves? Sound like a brilliant instrument for fear. Maybe this pilot was just suicidal or crazy, but maybe not.

"Security cockpit doors to protect against terrorist attacks" in this case, it protected the terrorist attack.

 

[CZroe]

Remember - P&N has been very clear: a non Muslim killing people is not a terrorist, he/she is just a crazy person.

Even if he is a Muslim, we'll probably never know. OOOOoooOooooOoooOooooooOoOoOooo!

 

[realibrad]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/26/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/

Audio from the mangled voice recorder of Germanwings Flight 9525 reveals the captain was locked out of the cockpit while the co-pilot appeared to make a deliberate attempt to destroy the plane, Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin said Thursday.

The co-pilot of the doomed Germanwings flight "activated the descent" of the plane when he was alone in the cockpit, Robin said. That can only be done deliberately, he said.

Either mass murder or terrorism. If he just wanted to kill people and himself, murder. If he did it to make a statement, terrorism.

 

[CZroe]

That other plane that went missing in the ocean, that had similar flight patterns, right? Erratic behavior? I pointed that out, but some smart ass in here said something about "Well engine trouble does that or something". Yeah, go to hell whoever that was bitch. I was right. That Indian ocean plane wasn't an "accident' either.

"Similar?" This plane was dead on course.

My thought is, wouldn't the pilot who was outside the cockpit doing whatever, notice the decrease in elevation right away ? If yes, that should have triggered that something was wrong and to get right back to the cockpit. So what happened, did he not feel his plane descending until last minute ?

It was gradual/controlled.

 

[Genx87]

The one thing I find weird and doesnt add up with the intentional angle\suicide theory. When people kill themselves and takes others with them they usually want it known. Using the auto pilot to descend in an orderly fashion is an attempt to conceal the crime. He could just put it into a nose dive manually and get it over within a couple minutes. Instead he used the auto pilot to crash it in 8 minutes????

I will await more information from the black boxes before passing final judgement.

 

[CZroe]

The one thing I find weird with the intentional angle. If people kill themselves and takes others with them they usually want it known. Using the auto pilot to descend in an orderly fashion is an attempt to conceal the crime. He could just put it into a nose dive manually and get it over within a couple minutes. Instead he used the auto pilot to crash it in 8 minutes????

I will await more information from the black boxes before passing final judgement.

People who want to go out with a bang probably noticed all the attention other unexplained crashes got. They know that keeping people guessing will increase the attention. If that was the goal then it fits.

 

[realibrad]

The one thing I find weird and doesnt add up with the intentional angle\suicide theory. When people kill themselves and takes others with them they usually want it known. Using the auto pilot to descend in an orderly fashion is an attempt to conceal the crime. He could just put it into a nose dive manually and get it over within a couple minutes. Instead he used the auto pilot to crash it in 8 minutes????

I will await more information from the black boxes before passing final judgement.

You are trying to get into the mind of a crazy person. Crazy people are broken, and don't think logically.

 

[Genx87]

People who want to go out with a bang probably noticed all the attention other unexplained crashes got. They know that keeping people guessing will increase the attention. If that was the goal then it fits.

I don't think somebody suicidal would go through such an elaborate plan. Plus they typically let the world know they killed themselves. using the auto-pilot to descend orderly would go against letting the world know. Lets see if they turn up any suicide note\video where he lives.

The other thing that doesnt quite add up is the plane slowed in its descent. This means he was controlling the descent in a safe manner. I'd really like to know if there was a failure he was managing that had him tune out the banging on the door.

 

[Genx87]

You are trying to get into the mind of a crazy person. Crazy people are broken, and don't think logically.

That is if you believe 24 hours after the crash the first diagnosis is correct. History has shown we need to wait awhile to gather all the facts.

 

[realibrad]

That is if you believe 24 hours after the crash the first diagnosis is correct. History has shown we need to wait awhile to gather all the facts.

I was working off the scenario you were presenting. You were saying that if he were crazy, his actions did not make sense. I am saying that if he were crazy, then the things he would do would not always make sense.

 

[Genx87]

I was working off the scenario you were presenting. You were saying that if he were crazy, his actions did not make sense. I am saying that if he were crazy, then the things he would do would not always make sense.

Got ya.

 

[realibrad]

Got ya.

But I am sure you are right, that people are going to jump to a lot of conclusions before we get the data in. Sad either way really.

 

[moonbogg]

You are trying to get into the mind of a crazy person. Crazy people are broken, and don't think logically.

So? Don't try to analyze them logically. You can try get a feel for what its like to be them and establish likely behavioral patterns.

 

[flexy]

"High number of Turks" is totally normal for Germany.

It really doesn't mean a thing, in this case. And "Lubitz" is not exactly a Muslimic name neither does this guy look or seem like an Islamic extremist. This guy looks as German as it can get

Here is the funny thing: Let's just *theorize*the guy would've actually be born in Turkey and then later became a Pilot (or a Kebab vendor somewhere in Berlin, or a interet-cafe owner in, whatever, Frankfurt)...STILL doesn't make them Islamic extremists for god's sake.

 

[CZroe]

"High number of Turks" is totally normal for Germany.

It really doesn't mean a thing, in this case. And "Lubitz" is not exactly a Muslimic name neither does this guy look or seem like an Islamic extremist. This guy looks as German as it can get

Here is the funny thing: Let's just *theorize*the guy would've actually be born in Turkey and then later became a Pilot (or a Kebab vendor somewhere in Berlin, or a interet-cafe owner in, whatever, Frankfurt)...STILL doesn't make them Islamic extremists for god's sake.

Duuuuuuh. Your frustration is misplaced. Like I said: I don't really care about that. I just thought the contradiction was amusing and I decided to frame it as "ZOMG! CONSPIRACY!" Turkey isn't exactly a hotbed of terrorist activity either. No Islamic caliphate there now. Ottoman Empire is gone. Turkey is very secular.

I'm just saying that it looks like either they are falling over themselves to avoid the appearance of having them on the plane or the first article was dead wrong. THAT amuses me.

This is honestly the first time I even heard a name for the copilot. Hell, I don't even know the gender, FFS. The observation had nothing to do with the copilot anyway. It's all about reporting. We didn't know anything about the lock-out when I prepared the post during the forum outage last night (couldn't post due to the forum outage). Newell gave me the perfect lead-in so a facetiously framed it as a "conspiracy" theory.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Even if he is a Muslim, we'll probably never know. OOOOoooOooooOoooOooooooOoOoOooo!

We do know the usual good ol'boys want him to be Muslim.

 

[realibrad]

So? Don't try to analyze them logically. You can try get a feel for what its like to be them and establish likely behavioral patterns.

Trying to establish likely behavioral patters is trying to be logical. Sometimes, people are erratic. If someone has a mental break, they can do things that are totally different from anything they have done before.

My comment was a response to the idea that his actions did not fit a suicidal person. That is not true, as suicidal people can be very unstable.

 

[Jaepheth]

The one thing I find weird and doesnt add up with the intentional angle\suicide theory. When people kill themselves and takes others with them they usually want it known. Using the auto pilot to descend in an orderly fashion is an attempt to conceal the crime. He could just put it into a nose dive manually and get it over within a couple minutes. Instead he used the auto pilot to crash it in 8 minutes????

I will await more information from the black boxes before passing final judgement.

My understanding is that because of the underlying design the pilot is never in direct control of an Airbus craft. The computer flies the plane at all times, and the pilot has a "vote" on what the computer does, or can reprogram the autopilot, but that's it. Sort of like a Blendtec blender.

 

[zinfamous]

crazy. This was my first thought yesterday after the few details of what happened. Sudden descent, no warning signals, no deviation from flight plan.

Either terrorism or suicide. Co-Pilot was ~28 or so, and only a few 100 hours logged? I think it's possible that he is one of those internet-recruited ISIS volunteers that took up last week's command to murder as many Christians as possible.

Or, just suicide. I hope for the latter, but that doesn't make the reality any better.

 

[Genx87]

My understanding is that because of the underlying design the pilot is never in direct control of an Airbus craft. The computer flies the plane at all times, and the pilot has a "vote" on what the computer does, or can reprogram the autopilot, but that's it. Sort of like a Blendtec blender.

A pilot always has the ability to take control of the plane. They can program the auto-pilot to fly the plane. I believe some even allow for it to taxi now. But the auto-pilot can be disengaged by the pilot at any time.

The issue Airbus had in the past was their computer system would fight the pilot for control of the aircraft or lock them out. This was fixed at least 15-20 years ago.

 

[Jaskalas]

Either mass murder or terrorism. If he just wanted to kill people and himself, murder. If he did it to make a statement, terrorism.

Terrorism if there's some militant group he has ties to, or message of political motivation.

Thus far, the investigation has found neither.

 

[Jaskalas]

We do know the usual good ol'boys want him to be Muslim.

We want the world to make sense, and we have expectations of what is common. Do note, I never called out Muslims in this thread. On previous occasions I've jumped the gun and have been wrong before. I for one try to learn those lessons. Hell, in this case I never imagined the pilots were responsible, but I definitely suspected it was the work of a person and no accident.