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Air Force Academy makes 'God' optional in cadets' oath

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schmuckley said:
How is there going to be honor without God?
Don't tell me humanistic morality is honorable.Far from it.There is no moral code without God.
"If we ever forget that we are one nation under God,then we will be a nation gone under" -Ronald Reagan
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well, it existed before we created god, at least.
 
OutHouse said:
the us executed millions of our citizens? when?
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hence the "not quite in the same way though", but I think the native americans would like to have a word regarding extermination, and then the 2% of your population that died over a political issue in 1861-65.
 
her209 said:
http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20131025/NEWS/310230013/Academy-makes-God-optional-cadets-oath

The war on God continues!



A Don't Ask Don't Tell policy if you will except you don't get kicked out for being found out that you have a relationship with an invisible partner who lives in the sky.
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I am not a theist. Why should anyone give an oath to something they do not believe in?

BTW, how can anyone wage war on a being that is omnipotent? Something that is all knowing and all powerful should be able to take care itself. Or is the whole "wage war on God" thing a way to impose your religious beliefs onto other people?
 
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brycejones said:
So do you expect the Commandant of the Academy to also control the ICBMs? I'm sure he would be surprised to know just how vast his responsibilities are based on your opinion. You might have a point if this was a decision being driven by the Air Force brass as a whole but that doesn't seem to be the case based on the linked article.

Or are you more in favor of forcing cadets who don't believe in god to swear an oath that includes something they don't believe in? How very American of you.
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Are you retarded? Serious question. It's called sarcasm; lighten up Francis.
 
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Broheim said:
the air force isn't in the business of ending world hunger, those aren't happy meals coming out of the weapons bay.
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Apparently the AF is no longer in the business of worrying about anything that really matters either considering all the other problems it faces as a military institution.
 
zinfamous said:
well, it existed before we created god, at least.
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We created God? umm..no.
Check your history.
Also research what the founding fathers believed in.
They laid the foundation in such a way that religious freedom was not supposed to be infringed upon.
You live in this great country that was founded by people that believed in God.If they didn't;This country would not be as good as it today.The more people turn away from God here,the more bad things happen.Is there a correlation? indeedy there is.
 
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Broheim said:
hence the "not quite in the same way though", but I think the native americans would like to have a word regarding extermination, and then the 2% of your population that died over a political issue in 1861-65.
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Hope you can understand how this post sounds...and it sounds as if you're excusing the murderous communist regimes because the US did it but "not in the same way though", as that somehow makes what they did OK because the US did something similar.

Just saying, this it how it reads.
 
schmuckley said:
We created God? umm..no.
Check your history.
Also research what the founding fathers believed in.
They laid the foundation in such a way that religious freedom was not supposed to be infringed upon.
You live in this great country that was founded by people that believed in God.If they didn't;This country would not be as good as it today.The more people turn away from God here,the more bad things happen.Is there a correlation? indeedy there is.
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Check YOUR history. Human history predates the christian God you're referring to.

Bad things have been happening since long before our country existed.
 
Rob M. said:
Hope you can understand how this post sounds...and it sounds as if you're excusing the murderous communist regimes because the US did it but "not in the same way though", as that somehow makes what they did OK because the US did something similar.

Just saying, this it how it reads.
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Broheim is going with the "He who is without sins" approach. And it holds some water. The US hasn't started killing of it's own civilians in hte same way as a communist regime....yet...
 
ch33zw1z said:
Check YOUR history. Human history predates the christian God you're referring to.

Bad things have been happening since long before our country existed.
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Human history dates to 2400 years.The Bible put the figure at about 6000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recorded_history

PS:
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“We will not lie, steal or cheat nor tolerate among us anyone who does. Furthermore, I resolve to do my duty and live honorably, so help me God.”

The GOD part seems kinda unnecessary here.
I mean this oath is not anything more than personal morality, responsibly.

If anything it should read,
“We will not lie, steal or cheat nor tolerate among us anyone who does. Furthermore, I resolve to do my duty and live honorably, in honor of patriotism”

As usual, there are folks that will take and make this way out of proportion.
Even an atheist can live honorably.
 
sportage said:
As usual, there are folks that will take and make this way out of proportion.
Even an atheist can live honorably.
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Impossible! Without an invisible person over head, who will hold a person to their oath absent the presence of other people?!?!?
 
ch33zw1z said:
Broheim is going with the "He who is without sins" approach. And it holds some water. The US hasn't started killing of it's own civilians in hte same way as a communist regime....yet...
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So we should keep silent about atheist murderous regimes because "we've yet to do it"?

It's the responsible thing to do to point out how "godless" governments can and has been just as genocidal as "godly" ones, which gives fair warning to people.

That's why it's always a good thing to examine, objectively, both sides of he coin.
 
schmuckley said:
How is there going to be honor without God?
Don't tell me humanistic morality is honorable.Far from it.There is no moral code without God.
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That's one problem I have with this forum and OT - you don't know whether people are trolling or just plain ignorant.

Let me see, what's wrong with this person's post:

1 - So atheists (or people who don't believe in "your god") are without honour?

2 - Honour/God ceases to exist if...?

3 - Honour/morality didn't exist before Christianity came about?

schmuckley's post whiffs of "my beliefs are better than yours!".
 
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Broheim said:
relativistically it matters, the shotgun and sword analogy doesn't fit this scenario though.

I believe religion is an entirely personal matter and should be removed completely from government. You take an oath to the country and its People not to whatever god you pray to, you're free to make a personal oath to him/her/it/them on your own time but an official oath is a contract with the country not some god.
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Couldn't agree more, honestly...but if atheists were honest with themselves, they'd admit that there is no way of knowing what kind of world we would have *If* religion was relegated to the dustbin if history.

As history shows, man as ALWAYS been religious/worshipping gods etc -- there isn't a time where this has not been the case. So its easy to take an idealistic "imagine a world without religion" outlook because we can make up whatever future we want with this viewpoint. At the same time, godless commies get widely ignored, or as in your case, downplayed because the US "did the same thing".

It's like a child imagining a world without parents (without the restriction of what the child can/cannot do) only to realize that its only an idea, fantasy, unreal dream that probably won't turn out the way they envision because we've never been without parents -- its easy to make stuff up in this case because we don't have a reality to scrutinize it with.
 
Rob M. said:
Couldn't agree more, honestly...but if atheists were honest with themselves, they'd admit that there is no way of knowing what kind of world we would have *If* religion was relegated to the dustbin if history.

As history shows, man as ALWAYS been religious/worshipping gods etc -- there isn't a time where this has not been the case. So its easy to take an idealistic "imagine a world without religion" outlook because we can make up whatever future we want with this viewpoint. At the same time, godless commies get widely ignored, or as in your case, downplayed because the US "did the same thing".

It's like a child imagining a world without parents (without the restriction of what the child can/cannot do) only to realize that its only an idea, fantasy, unreal dream that probably won't turn out the way they envision because we've never been without parents -- its easy to make stuff up in this case because we don't have a reality to scrutinize it with.
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These are the kind of children being raised in the US and UK nowadays.They have no limits because the state forbids discipline,AND teches them there's no God.
Hence nowadays there are mass school shootings.

Like I said:Without God;There is no honor.

Are we supposed to have the morality of Apes?
 
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