AIG To Report 60 billion loss

GTKeeper

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2005
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AIG will ask the govt. for another bailout.
Without another U.S. bailout, AIG will file for bankruptcy next week.

Breaking headline at the top of Cnbc.com (link to follow).

Edit: here is the story and link...

AIG Seeks More US Funds As Record Loss Looms
By: David Faber, CNBC Anchor and Reporter | 23 Feb 2009 | 03:00 PM ET

American Insurance Group, the insurance giant that is 80-percent owned by the US government, is in discussions with the government to secure additional funds so it can keep operating after next Monday, when it will report the largest loss in U.S. corporate history, CNBC has learned.

Sources close to the company said the loss will be near $60 billion due to writedowns on a variety of assets including commercial real estate.

That massive loss is likely to spur downgrades in its insurance and credit ratings that will force AIG to raise collateral that it doesn't have.

In addition, if AIG's book value falls below a certain level, as it seems certain to do, it will trigger default in certain of its debt instruments, say people familiar with the situation.

All of this adds up to a huge headache for the Federal Reserve and Treasury, which have already provided over $150 billion of assistance to AIG.

Talks between the government and AIG are focussed on how the company can swap some of the debt held by the government for equity in AIG. The problem is that the government's ownership stake cannot exceed its current 79.9 percent, leaving officials to try and find a creative way to transfer value to the US in exchange for AIG reducing its debt so that it can then borrow more from the government to meet its collateral calls.

AIG has borrowed roughly $40 billion from a $60 billion credit facility provided it by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. if it can find a way to pay that down by swapping equity, it hopes to take it back up to a level that will allow it to meet its collateral and capital calls.

AIG's board is scheduled to meet this Sunday night in hopes of hammering out an agreement with the government. But in case it can't, AIG's lawyers at Weill Gotschal are preparing for the possibility of bankruptcy.

That seems unlikely, but last November, the government took control of many of AIG's credit default swaps and so a bankruptcy of the holding company might not pose the systemic risk it once did.

AIG officials have not offered comment. Officials at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York have not returned calls.


This is about as scary as it gets. Oh and AIG still has 500 billion dollars worth of CDS which we have no clue what percentage are 'good' or 'bad'.
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
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hmmm, are they going to throw another party for pre-bankruptcy celebration?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Sources close to the company said the loss will be near $60 billion due to writedowns on a variety of assets including commercial real estate.
...
This is about as scary as it gets. Oh and AIG still has 500 billion dollars worth of CDS which we have no clue what percentage are 'good' or 'bad'.
AIG had the trifecta:
1) The first crash: residential mortgages. This started kicking in a year or two ago.
2) The second crash: commercial real estate. America has 6x the square footage per capita of commercial real estate compared to the next largest country (per capita). The commercial real estate market was propped up more than the residential market. It'll crash much harder, especially if the economy goes bad. This is kicking in right now.
3) The third crash: credit default swaps. I don't have a clue when this will kick in but it is a massive beast that is looming. Think multiples of the US GDP.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
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Wasn't the government supposed to turn a profit from investing in all these crap assets? *Nelson voice* HAH HAH!
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,644
9,948
136
How hard is it to understand? NOT ONE DIME should go to AIG or other failed institutions. Failure to adhere to the natural cycle of things will bring about a larger failure. The buck needs to stop here, you cannot let these bailouts take down the entire nation along with the likes of AIG.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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$60 BEEEEEEELYUN dollars :laugh:

Wow. Sounds like we're at the tip of the iceberg.
 

GTKeeper

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2005
1,118
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Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Sources close to the company said the loss will be near $60 billion due to writedowns on a variety of assets including commercial real estate.
...
This is about as scary as it gets. Oh and AIG still has 500 billion dollars worth of CDS which we have no clue what percentage are 'good' or 'bad'.
AIG had the trifecta:
1) The first crash: residential mortgages. This started kicking in a year or two ago.
2) The second crash: commercial real estate. America has 6x the square footage per capita of commercial real estate compared to the next largest country (per capita). The commercial real estate market was propped up more than the residential market. It'll crash much harder, especially if the economy goes bad. This is kicking in right now.
3) The third crash: credit default swaps. I don't have a clue when this will kick in but it is a massive beast that is looming. Think multiples of the US GDP.

The CRE market hasn't fully popped yet. Plenty of meat left on SPG. But #3 eclipses ALL.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Who cares, that isn't even real money. Obama has way more than that available.

Man, these fvcking bankers should be strung up and hanged, honest to sh*t.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
We are just so completely fvcked, honestly.

BTW, the last thing this country needs is to nationalize an entity with unknown liabilities, and thus by virtue of it being backed by the US government, the country being on the hook for them.

Oh, wait it's almost too late for that, isn't it? 80% owned by US gov, damn.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Simply amazing that an insurance company can crash like this. I understand having a bad year but auto insurance is required by law and home owners insurance is required by banks holding a lien on a property. So it's not like they are selling a product they can't sell.

Which is all the more reason to crucify these guys upside down during next years Superbowl halftime show instead of having a has been that's already played on the radio way too much as is.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How bad would it be if we just let them go belly up?

According to your President it will possibly cause a crisis we will never be able to recover from..
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
We are just so completely fvcked, honestly.

BTW, the last thing this country needs is to nationalize an entity with unknown liabilities, and thus by virtue of it being backed by the US government, the country being on the hook for them.

Oh, wait it's almost too late for that, isn't it? 80% owned by US gov, damn.

Do you recall the Fed cheerleaders boasting about how the government was actually going to turn a profit from these craptastic assets? Bwahahahaha....
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
What Warren said just seems to stick in my head, If you are going to put me at risk, then I deserve to put restrictions on what you do to minimize my risk.
Banks don't want regulation and the governments involvement, then pay your own damn bills and STFU.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Wasn't the government supposed to turn a profit from investing in all these crap assets? *Nelson voice* HAH HAH!

Nope, read the statements Warren said, we got 66 % for every 100% we invested and not even 1 cent went to help the mortgage problem. Paulson should be tar, feathered, and run out on a rail.


I can't wait to see the documents Fox Business got from the court hearing. I'm thinking tp'ing of congress may happen on that day. That or an all out riot.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Skoorb
We are just so completely fvcked, honestly.

BTW, the last thing this country needs is to nationalize an entity with unknown liabilities, and thus by virtue of it being backed by the US government, the country being on the hook for them.

Oh, wait it's almost too late for that, isn't it? 80% owned by US gov, damn.

Do you recall the Fed cheerleaders boasting about how the government was actually going to turn a profit from these craptastic assets? Bwahahahaha....
Oh, of course I did. I laughed my silly ass off at the time--at the idea the gov was doing to make money out of it.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
BTW, letting AIG fail is not going to simply hurt a ferrari driving banker, it will hurt many who rely on their services and are intertwined with them. That's why I say we're fvcked. There is no good way out of this.