AIG To Report 60 billion loss

[Craig234]

Early 2008: Liberals warn that the wealthy, the rulers of Wall Street, are too dominant in our political system, their interests coming ahead of the common good, their practices leeching off of society to gain excessive profits for themselves often in ways that are against the public interest. Republicans are uninterested, say 'shutup, you are envious of the billionares is all, give them a free hand and that's how the nation prospers'.

Seems like yesterday. Now that the effects are clearer to Republicans, while the wealthy get the first taxpayer money as the system falls, it's too late for their Johnny come lately.

Liberals warned of the danger of the blind ideology of the right. Warning ignored, price now being paid.

 

[Zebo]

Loss my ass. We need to start banging in the doors of these trolls and take everything from them but about a million bucks, If they argue hang them.

Paulsons worth 700 million where'd he get that? All these crooks are worth similar or better where'd they get it? Think about it.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
This seems to be one of those issues where you have to decide, in the tune of old Kenny Rogers, know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. We're already in 150 bil... what's another 60? It's kind of like how I screwed myself when I bought an Xbox 360 Arcade. Sure it was cheap but then I had to get the HDMI cable. Bah what's another $40 after paying $150. Then I needed to get a play and charge kit. Bah what's another $15-20 when I've already paid $190. Then I needed to get...

We're fucked.

The difference with your xbox is that after buying the HDMI you didn't get home and found that it didn't work, with no return policy, then you bought another and it worked but then you needed to pay another $50/month, non-refundable to play the thing and every time you played a game the disc would break so you'd have to buy another one, then one day you get home and find out your house burned to the ground. Turns out that if you don't pay an additional $80/month you didn't know you had to pay, the thing blows up and takes out your house. It's a bit more like that than you analogy

 

[chess9]

The housing foreclosures are bad, and the commercial losses much worse, but the derivative losses are humongous. One wonk estimated there were $600 TRILLION in derivatives world wide. Does anyone know how many of them are bad? The short answer is NO. Paulson said 2-3 trillion dollars worth were bad. Geithner recently said 4-5 trillion dollars. Neither of them really know. The stress testing might give them a better idea, but even so, they will probably never know. If 10% are bad, the world's major economies will be in shambles.

Hold onto your knickers lads, the ride will be very rough.

-Robert

 

[StageLeft]

If 10% are bad, the world's major economies will be in shambles.

Those who read this want to know, how, Chess9, will we know when they're in shambles? And I'll tell them. Market down 50% hee hee

 

[nullzero]

AIG deserves to fail. I am sick of hearing these people if AIG or this bank fails it will cause chaos... blah blah blah. Just open a new bank and insurance company ran by the government to take over the deposits and services.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Early 2008: Liberals warn that the wealthy, the rulers of Wall Street, are too dominant in our political system, their interests coming ahead of the common good, their practices leeching off of society to gain excessive profits for themselves often in ways that are against the public interest. Republicans are uninterested, say 'shutup, you are envious of the billionares is all, give them a free hand and that's how the nation prospers'.

Seems like yesterday. Now that the effects are clearer to Republicans, while the wealthy get the first taxpayer money as the system falls, it's too late for their Johnny come lately.

Liberals warned of the danger of the blind ideology of the right. Warning ignored, price now being paid.

Capitalism does not rely on criminals to self-regulate, or even be regulated though, but rather, on informed consumers to put criminals out of business when they screwup. That is not happening and will not happen. They won't let losers go out of business save one sacifical lamb, Lehman bros. From early day government protecting their profits with loan guarantees for every type of loan imaginable which started this whole irresponsibility to endgame bailouts they are always handing the criminal a loaded .45. Welfare for the rich and established plane and simple aided and abetted by both parties..

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: chess9
The housing foreclosures are bad, and the commercial losses much worse, but the derivative losses are humongous. One wonk estimated there were $600 TRILLION in derivatives world wide. Does anyone know how many of them are bad? The short answer is NO. Paulson said 2-3 trillion dollars worth were bad. Geithner recently said 4-5 trillion dollars. Neither of them really know. The stress testing might give them a better idea, but even so, they will probably never know. If 10% are bad, the world's major economies will be in shambles.

Hold onto your knickers lads, the ride will be very rough.

-Robert

Wolfowitz said the Iraq war will pay for itself.. that

"We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."

http://www.reuters.com/article...stCrisis/idUSN16228104
^^^ They are all criminals and will never tell the truth until they have sucked us dry and sunk the world into chaos unseen

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
This seems to be one of those issues where you have to decide, in the tune of old Kenny Rogers, know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. We're already in 150 bil... what's another 60? It's kind of like how I screwed myself when I bought an Xbox 360 Arcade. Sure it was cheap but then I had to get the HDMI cable. Bah what's another $40 after paying $150. Then I needed to get a play and charge kit. Bah what's another $15-20 when I've already paid $190. Then I needed to get...

We're fucked.

The difference with your xbox is that after buying the HDMI you didn't get home and found that it didn't work, with no return policy, then you bought another and it worked but then you needed to pay another $50/month, non-refundable to play the thing and every time you played a game the disc would break so you'd have to buy another one, then one day you get home and find out your house burned to the ground. Turns out that if you don't pay an additional $80/month you didn't know you had to pay, the thing blows up and takes out your house. It's a bit more like that than you analogy

That's a shitty 360

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
That's a shitty 360

Heh, if you go to the Console forum and listen to the PS3'ers, that's a typical 360! :laugh:

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: chess9
The housing foreclosures are bad, and the commercial losses much worse, but the derivative losses are humongous. One wonk estimated there were $600 TRILLION in derivatives world wide. Does anyone know how many of them are bad? The short answer is NO. Paulson said 2-3 trillion dollars worth were bad. Geithner recently said 4-5 trillion dollars. Neither of them really know. The stress testing might give them a better idea, but even so, they will probably never know. If 10% are bad, the world's major economies will be in shambles.

Hold onto your knickers lads, the ride will be very rough.

-Robert

On that note...

I think this deserves repeating:

IMO it's 50/50... we are headed for another Great Depression with hyper inflation this time and massive civil unrest due to lack of morals today, therefore, may I present- Zebo's survival keys on a budget which may save your life.

Attitude Free - like anything in life it all starts there - positive attitude is important to success, and all survival manuals stress it makes the difference between living or dying! Never quit. Never give up. Always look at things half full!

Health Free- If we truly get into a SHTF scenario medicines will not be around so you taking insulin or heart medicine you're in big trouble unless you've stocked up. Excersise, have a resting HR less than 60 preferably. The exercise part is good for you no matter what, SHTF or Not. Live longer feel better, sleep better, have more energy etc - and will be crucial in survival situation where foraging for food, planting food or running from predators two legged and four will pay big dividends.

A good water proof Sleeping bag $100 - When grid shuts down, you have no idea how cold world gets - In a true survival situation, most people die because of hypothermia, not because of lack of water or food. You don't want to build fires for warmth, alerts zombies to your presence, and is a waste of energy that could be used for food acquisition, building, working instead of chopping.

A Rugar 10/22 and 2000 rounds ammo $300 - Can kill small game for protein and Keep Zombies at bay one per family is fine. Don't be going hog wild on firearms - they will be everywhere anyway if things get to bad. Too much weight and all survival books say 22lr is all you need.

A good knife, good first aid kit and learn manual, lights and radio $100 -
I prefer those wind up & inertia radios and LED flashlights - batteries are too heavy and go bad quick especially if you don't keep them dry or leave them on ground or get them hot.

One month supply of food $150-$250 per person - It's better not to have to worry about food right away when SHTF
*Beans and rice are cheap and keep almost forever if stored right. Can eat for $40 a month on beans and rice!
*Canned foods will be good if static, last about three years depending what it is. Only issue is weight/calories ratio should you have to move.
* Peanut butter is the best all round survival food. Keeps 2 years. Don't have to prepare it and it's loaded with protein, carbs and fats. Very high weight/calories ratio

Peers FREE - Groups of people provide security and emotional support in many ways - You are going to have to be with honest and trustworthy people who help each other out in order to survive. No Robinson Crusoe - you won't make it.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
This seems to be one of those issues where you have to decide, in the tune of old Kenny Rogers, know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. We're already in 150 bil... what's another 60? It's kind of like how I screwed myself when I bought an Xbox 360 Arcade. Sure it was cheap but then I had to get the HDMI cable. Bah what's another $40 after paying $150. Then I needed to get a play and charge kit. Bah what's another $15-20 when I've already paid $190. Then I needed to get...

We're fucked.

I think your analogy is backward. In your example, you sent good money after good. Many people believe sending AIG money is sending good money after bad. I believe that if your example had been:

"It's kind of like how I screwed myself when I bought an Xbox 360 Arcade. Then I got the RROD. To try to fix it I bought an HDMI cable. Bah what's another $40 after paying $150. Then I needed to get a play and charge kit to see if that helped. Bah what's another $15-20 when I've already paid $190."

Then it would be more appropriate. After all, your Xbox at least WORKED when you added those accessories. We've had no indication that AIG is a functioning company and that taxpayer money will save this company.

In a "hold 'em or fold 'em" scenario, you're still supposed to fold 'em if the bet is bad, no matter how much you already have in the pot.

Yeah you're exactly right. I thought about this as I was walking out of the office but getting to my car and back to the house was more important than walking back in and saving face.

And yes, it could still explode!

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Wasn't the government supposed to turn a profit from investing in all these crap assets? *Nelson voice* HAH HAH!

It is quite obvious that we didn't give them large enough bonuses so all the top talent left to go somewhere else.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How bad would it be if we just let them go belly up?

Then I would bet that thousands upon thousands would lose their jobs, banks would stop lending, and the stock market would be at it's lowest level in 11 years.

Good thing we bailed them out. We dodge the bullet this time.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: dahunan
So, we already gave them 80 billion approx... IF They go bankrupt.. how will that be repaid?

Paying them bonuses so the top talent doesn't leave.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: nullzero
AIG deserves to fail. I am sick of hearing these people if AIG or this bank fails it will cause chaos... blah blah blah. Just open a new bank and insurance company ran by the government to take over the deposits and services.

What about those people who paid tons of money for the insurance policies AIG underwrite? What about their insurance payout and benefits when AIG fails? Who is gonna be responsible for that?

I have no sympathy for AIG and it's executives. But tons of people will lose everything they were promised by AIG for all the hard earn money they have been feeding AIG. That's not something a new bank or insurance company can provide.

 

[palehorse]

$60B? Is that all?! Hell, congress gives away more than that on a weekly basis at this point...

In all seriousness, we're fucked.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

If 10% are bad, the world's major economies will be in shambles.

Those who read this want to know, how, Chess9, will we know when they're in shambles? And I'll tell them. Market down 50% hee hee

No telling at this point how far the stock market will drop...or if it will recover miraculously, home foreclosures stop, and pigs begin to fly.

At this point, we are about where the USA was on December 7, 1941, a day that will live in infamy. We have a long battle in front of us, and we will lose a lot of good people in this fight. Maybe we should bring back Gold Star Mothers....

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: nullzero
AIG deserves to fail. I am sick of hearing these people if AIG or this bank fails it will cause chaos... blah blah blah. Just open a new bank and insurance company ran by the government to take over the deposits and services.

I could not agree more. Let 'em die....
Maybe we need to re-invent the wheel and in the process re-invent our selves.


-Robert

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: chess9
The housing foreclosures are bad, and the commercial losses much worse, but the derivative losses are humongous. One wonk estimated there were $600 TRILLION in derivatives world wide. Does anyone know how many of them are bad? The short answer is NO. Paulson said 2-3 trillion dollars worth were bad. Geithner recently said 4-5 trillion dollars. Neither of them really know. The stress testing might give them a better idea, but even so, they will probably never know. If 10% are bad, the world's major economies will be in shambles.

Hold onto your knickers lads, the ride will be very rough.

-Robert

On that note...

I think this deserves repeating:

IMO it's 50/50... we are headed for another Great Depression with hyper inflation this time and massive civil unrest due to lack of morals today, therefore, may I present- Zebo's survival keys on a budget which may save your life.

Attitude Free - like anything in life it all starts there - positive attitude is important to success, and all survival manuals stress it makes the difference between living or dying! Never quit. Never give up. Always look at things half full!

Health Free- If we truly get into a SHTF scenario medicines will not be around so you taking insulin or heart medicine you're in big trouble unless you've stocked up. Excersise, have a resting HR less than 60 preferably. The exercise part is good for you no matter what, SHTF or Not. Live longer feel better, sleep better, have more energy etc - and will be crucial in survival situation where foraging for food, planting food or running from predators two legged and four will pay big dividends.

A good water proof Sleeping bag $100 - When grid shuts down, you have no idea how cold world gets - In a true survival situation, most people die because of hypothermia, not because of lack of water or food. You don't want to build fires for warmth, alerts zombies to your presence, and is a waste of energy that could be used for food acquisition, building, working instead of chopping.

A Rugar 10/22 and 2000 rounds ammo $300 - Can kill small game for protein and Keep Zombies at bay one per family is fine. Don't be going hog wild on firearms - they will be everywhere anyway if things get to bad. Too much weight and all survival books say 22lr is all you need.

A good knife, good first aid kit and learn manual, lights and radio $100 -
I prefer those wind up & inertia radios and LED flashlights - batteries are too heavy and go bad quick especially if you don't keep them dry or leave them on ground or get them hot.

One month supply of food $150-$250 per person - It's better not to have to worry about food right away when SHTF
*Beans and rice are cheap and keep almost forever if stored right. Can eat for $40 a month on beans and rice!
*Canned foods will be good if static, last about three years depending what it is. Only issue is weight/calories ratio should you have to move.
* Peanut butter is the best all round survival food. Keeps 2 years. Don't have to prepare it and it's loaded with protein, carbs and fats. Very high weight/calories ratio

Peers FREE - Groups of people provide security and emotional support in many ways - You are going to have to be with honest and trustworthy people who help each other out in order to survive. No Robinson Crusoe - you won't make it.

Good advice, but I hope we don't all need to start buying guns. I haven't had a gun since 1970. Four years in the Marines left me with a distaste for firearms. But, my brother bought something like a Sig Siger .38 (sp?), I think. He wants to get a carry permit because he was threatened a few weeks ago by a crazy guy. My brother is on serious medication for bipolar disorder, so the thought of him carrying a loaded gun is a bit scary.

Regarding fitness, I've been a body Nazi for a very long time. I'm still quite strong and can run pretty fast...still. And when I'm scared I can run faster! Resting heart rate is 47, or was this a.m. Fitness is your best recommendation, IMHO.
-Robert

 

[Zebo]

How can someone with bi-polar get a CCW or even buy a gun? They ask you on the form if you have mental issues, among other things, so I think it's perjury to say otherwise and they check with FBI. CCW is much more stringent than that. I was hesitant to even mention guns other than for food issues. Live by the sword... but could be useful for defense still under anarchy.

Good for you Chess about staying in shape..my dad is about your age and is an animal too - gives us young guys something to aspire to (when not being embarrassed) and seeing our kids grow up.

 

[Drift3r]

AIG may not deserve the money but the American taxpayer doesn't deserve to be dragged down to their deaths as AIG sinks. This is a perfect example of what happens when you grow so big and become so ingrained into the economy and finical institutions that you can ensure that if you go down you will take everyone else with you into the abyss.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Zebo
How can someone with bi-polar get a CCW or even buy a gun? They ask you on the form if you have mental issues, among other things, so I think it's perjury to say otherwise and they check with FBI. CCW is much more stringent than that. I was hesitant to even mention guns other than for food issues. Live by the sword... but could be useful for defense still under anarchy.

Good for you Chess about staying in shape..my dad is about your age and is an animal too - gives us young guys something to aspire to (when not being embarrassed) and seeing our kids grow up.

You do realize that there are tons of people who are bi-polar or have other mental issues but don't really know it since they have never been to psychiatrist. Then there are the people who just flat out lie and don't really care or think about the consequences even when they themselves know they have mental issues. Lets hope a background check flags his brother down ASAP.

 

[ChrisIsBored]

Give them $80Billion! Spend spend spend!

Hell, I say we hold a grave digging party and go resurrect John Keynes while we're at it and build a holy effigy in his honor.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
AIG may not deserve the money but the American taxpayer doesn't deserve to be dragged down to their deaths as AIG sinks. This is a perfect example of what happens when you grow so big and become so ingrained into the economy and finical institutions that you can ensure that if you go down you will take everyone else with you down for the ride.

Interesting point... Should the Free-Market have done something about the size of these corporations in the interest of National Security?