After Supporting Prop 8, New CEO Brendan Eich Comes Under Fire From Mozilla Employees

[nehalem256]

You speak as though sexuality is a straight or gay matter. Apparently you haven't heard of bisexuals.

I don't think that it was being suggested that men who engage in homosexual sex in prison and heterosexual sex outside of prison are bisexual. I would have no issue with a person making that claim/

 

[alzan]

Well, that would seem to put a mighty big hole in the you can't choose to be gay thing huh. Seems like straight people can choose to be gay after all. Thanks for the example :thumbsup:



Gay. 80% raped boys



I think you meant to say Democratic politicians. Republicans tend to have taste 😛

Some of the priests could be pedophiles; they had sex with boys because they know that boys that are molested by men are the least likely to report to their parents.

By the way, does your wife the toaster know that you've been seeing the curling iron behind her back?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Isn't that actually pretty much the exact opposite of what I was talking about?

We were discussing prisoners who engage in homosexual acts while in prison. And trying to pretend that such people who engage in homosexual acts are straight because they don't call themselves gay.

Ok, so you really *are* that stupid. Good to know.

How's your toaster doing?

 

[theeedude]

He responded:
https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/

I think a lot of people's minds have changed since 2008. I think if he is still a bigot, he should go, but maybe he evolved on this issue as well. I think it's worth giving this some time and space to play out.

 

[OverVolt]

Social pressure and social norms are extremely powerful. In fact, I would say most of what defines you as a person (all of us really) is what we were told is the right thing to do. If your parents tell you to drop out of school and work on the farm forever, you probably would and would proclaim farm life to be the best life there is (if you don't believe me just go to talk to a farmer or talk to the amish).

Even sexuality is this way to a degree. The greeks for example thought that true love could only occur between a man and another man. Sure they slept with women but only for reproductive reasons as women were thought to be too dumb to even grasp the idea of love. Greek men (and this is the majority here not the minority) kept young boys whom they would raise, teach and have sex with as part of teaching him to grow up to be a man and this was considered a beautiful process. They also had sex with other men all the time. And again this is the majority of greek men here because it was the SOCIAL norm based around the idea that women are dumb reproductive factories and love is intellectual and could only be grasped by men. Now that idea isn't so prevalent and so sexuality has changed (though there are tribes in Africa that were completely isolated from greece yet through their own course developed and still maintain similar ideals and still have that boy/man love relationships as part of the maturing process to this day, again proof that ideas and social norm are a huge part of sexuality not just biology).

I could really care less about whom is banging whom and what family problems it causes for them. How is this a social issue at all?

The only way its a social issue is that sexual orientation isn't a protected class like race or age in the workplace. So you can potentially be fired for being gay, AFAIK. So it would be wise to keep that on the downlow.

I can understand if LGBT's wanted to change that, or allow legal marriage. But all this other stuff. Seriously, handle your own shit.

Some people just have bad parents that isn't society's problem until you become a ward of the state, which is not really a good idea.

What makes LGBT's any more deserving of attention than say homeless and orphans with regard to getting your ass kicked to the curb at 18.

Many LGBT's, especially the T's are correlated with lower socioeconomic status. Just saying. If you want to be G and your parents disagree that is actually between you and your parents until you are 18. If you can't make it at 18 at mcdonalds, well, should've listened. Thats just life.

 

[Jimzz]

He responded:
https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/

I think a lot of people's minds have changed since 2008. I think if he is still a bigot, he should go, but maybe he evolved on this issue as well. I think it's worth giving this some time and space to play out.

Does not sound like HE responded but a PR person or firm wrote that for him.

Has a lot of PR buzz words and no substance. Reads more "Please don't fire me...".

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Conform or be cast out, eh?

That's about the long and the short of it....and both sides do it.

 

[jackstar7]

Yes, in this situation, yes it does.

Firing someone for something they said in the political arena is uncalled for.

So you're against at-will employment?

 

[brandonb]

So he bends over and takes it in the ass like every other victim of the thought police. By posting some "apology" and concessions.

Great job guys! If it was a gay person who had to apologize for being gay. You'd be all up in arms like you were when Michelle Bachmann's husband ran some anti gay clinic.

 

[fskimospy]

So he bends over and takes it in the ass like every other victim of the thought police. By posting some "apology" and concessions.

Great job guys! If it was a gay person who had to apologize for being gay. You'd be all up in arms like you were when Michelle Bachmann's husband ran some anti gay clinic.

It is almost as if immutable characteristics and actions people choose to take aren't the same thing.

That is unless you are arguing that this guy was inescapably a homophobic asshole from birth?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I am strongly in favor of gay rights and opposed to any form of discrimination against LGBT people. That being said, I am also in favor of the right of other people to have a different view, and I think the ganging up on Eich and Mozilla for his having made a modest donation to an anti-gay marriage campaign 6 years ago. Our culture's evolution on this particular issue has been remarkably rapid, and anti-gay marriage voices were in the distinct majority in 2008. I myself favor gay marriage, but I don't consider those who oppose it to necessarily be homophobic or hateful people.

 

[fskimospy]

I am strongly in favor of gay rights and opposed to any form of discrimination against LGBT people. That being said, I am also in favor of the right of other people to have a different view, and I think the ganging up on Eich and Mozilla for his having made a modest donation to an anti-gay marriage campaign 6 years ago. Our culture's evolution on this particular issue has been remarkably rapid, and anti-gay marriage voices were in the distinct majority in 2008. I myself favor gay marriage, but I don't consider those who oppose it to necessarily be homophobic or hateful people.

Can you give some reasons to oppose same sex marriage that are not homophobic or at least rooted in homophobia?

 

[thraashman]

I am strongly in favor of gay rights and opposed to any form of discrimination against LGBT people. That being said, I am also in favor of the right of other people to have a different view, and I think the ganging up on Eich and Mozilla for his having made a modest donation to an anti-gay marriage campaign 6 years ago. Our culture's evolution on this particular issue has been remarkably rapid, and anti-gay marriage voices were in the distinct majority in 2008. I myself favor gay marriage, but I don't consider those who oppose it to necessarily be homophobic or hateful people.

To me it's not so much that he's anti gay marriage. I accept that people are like that even if I find it disappointing. But his donation was him actively assisting in the subversion of equal rights of LGBT individuals.

 

[mchammer187]

Can you give some reasons to oppose same sex marriage that are not homophobic or at least rooted in homophobia?

You could be anti marriage as an institution

 

[fskimospy]

You could be anti marriage as an institution

Very true. I took anti-same sex marriage to mean that one was only opposed to same sex marriages and not others. If someone were simply opposed to marriage in principle that would obviously be different.

 

[brandonb]

To me it's not so much that he's anti gay marriage. I accept that people are like that even if I find it disappointing. But his donation was him actively assisting in the subversion of equal rights of LGBT individuals.

So, what equal rights does this guy have when it comes to not accepting LGBT individuals?

Let me guess: "Bigoted assholes don't get rights."

 

[nehalem256]

It is almost as if immutable characteristics and actions people choose to take aren't the same thing.

You mean unless we are talking about the action of getting same-sex married 😉

Can you give some reasons to oppose same sex marriage that are not homophobic or at least rooted in homophobia?

If you view marriage as an institution centered around pro-creation then same-sex couples would obviously be excluded.

See for example this http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/20...istorical-amnesia/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

EDIT: Or see also Ancient Greece where men banged each other all the time, but marriage was still man-woman.

 

[brandonb]

It is almost as if immutable characteristics and actions people choose to take aren't the same thing.

That is unless you are arguing that this guy was inescapably a homophobic asshole from birth?

It's not a choice, they were born that way.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Can you give some reasons to oppose same sex marriage that are not homophobic or at least rooted in homophobia?

As a starting proposition, I feel strongly that gay couples should have the same rights to marry as any other couple.

That being said, I think that other things being equal, the combination of a man and a woman as parents probably has the greatest potential for raising happy and healthy children, because I believe the gender roles we as a species have evolved over the course of millenia serve a legitimate purpose (just as they do in other species). That is not to say that a gay couple can't also be great parents, and better than many heterosexual couples, but I do think that other things being equal, a heterosexual couple is better suited to raising kids than a gay couple. Given that one of the principal reasons for marriage is creating a structure for parenting, I can certainly understand the views of someone who believes that only heterosexual couples should be "married" in a legal sense. I don't happen to agree with that view but I don't see it as necessarily homophobic.

 

[jackstar7]

So, what equal rights does this guy have when it comes to not accepting LGBT individuals?

Let me guess: "Bigoted assholes don't get rights."

They have the right to keep their mouths shut unless they want to deal with the reality that their opinions are not popular, and justifiably so.

 

[Genx87]

They have the right to keep their mouths shut unless they want to deal with the reality that their opinions are not popular, and justifiably so.

That is the spirit comrade.

 

[nehalem256]

As a starting proposition, I feel strongly that gay couples should have the same rights to marry as any other couple.

That being said, I think that other things being equal, the combination of a man and a woman as parents probably has the greatest potential for raising happy and healthy children, because I believe the gender roles we as a species have evolved over the course of millenia serve a legitimate purpose (just as they do in other species). That is not to say that a gay couple can't also be great parents, and better than many heterosexual couples, but I do think that other things being equal, a heterosexual couple is better suited to raising kids than a gay couple. Given that one of the principal reasons for marriage is creating a structure for parenting, I can certainly understand the views of someone who believes that only heterosexual couples should be "married" in a legal sense. I don't happen to agree with that view but I don't see it as necessarily homophobic.

The better question is why is prohibiting same-sex marriage considered homophobic at all.

From a liberal conception of marriage why wouldn't 2 straight bros want to get married to each other?

By saying that prohibiting SSM is homophobic you are implicitly saying that marriage is about sex. So the question is what is it about sexual relationships that make it so society should grant special recognition to them? :hmm:

 

[nehalem256]

They have the right to keep their mouths shut unless they want to deal with the reality that their opinions are not popular, and justifiably so.

You do realize that when the CEO opened his mouth that his opinion was not only popular, but the majority opinion.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The better question is why is prohibiting same-sex marriage considered homophobic at all.

From a liberal conception of marriage why wouldn't 2 straight bros want to get married to each other?

By saying that prohibiting SSM is homophobic you are implicitly saying that marriage is about sex. So the question is what is it about sexual relationships that make it so society should grant special recognition to them? :hmm:

I guess I shouldn't be shocked that one of your posts seems to so comprehensively fail to grasp ordinary human interaction. The purpose behind marriage, gay or straight, is to memorialize and legally sanctify a loving bond between two people who want to be legally joined for life. In that context, I don't even understand the second paragraph of your post.

 

[nehalem256]

I guess I shouldn't be shocked that one of your posts seems to so comprehensively fail to grasp ordinary human interaction. The purpose behind marriage, gay or straight, is to memorialize and legally sanctify a loving bond between two people who want to be legally joined for life. In that context, I don't even understand the second paragraph of your post.

And, so why couldn't 2 straight dudes want this? Perhaps they want the right to visit each other in the hospital. Or raise a child together while still banging a variety of hot chicks.