After Supporting Prop 8, New CEO Brendan Eich Comes Under Fire From Mozilla Employees

[MrPickins]

Apparently you can only choose to be gay, because everybody is born straight.

So reciprocal arguing is biologically and genetically fallacious. Convincing your son or daughter to go back to being straight like they were born won't work if you start a gay relationship. You have to stop choosing to be gay and return to being straight, you don't start choosing to be straight.

Duh.

Not sure if serious or if my sarcasm meter is broken.

 

[OverVolt]

I think you're all blowing this out of proportion. Mozilla has 600+ employees; a total of 5 of them have asked the new CEO to resign via Twitter. Several other people expressed disappointment at his past action but didn't call for his resignation. And a separate company has decided they won't support Mozilla anymore, which is their right as an organization if they want to let personal politics get in the way of market share. So all of this nonsense about people trying to take food out of his mouth or whatnot, that's just absurd hyperbole.

Ah how very keen of you, I didn't notice. I did get click baited. But thats modern internet media for you. I really ought to just stop and watch documentaries or something if I want to learn something political.

 

[nehalem256]

Bullshit.

Did you choose to be straight?

Leftists seem to like to bring this up as an argument. The obvious point being that the idea of me, as a straight man, engaging in homosexual sex should be preposterous and/or disgusting to me.

There is one problem with this argument as it applies to LGBT people. A large number of gay people have engaged in straight sex.

Roughly three-quarters of lesbians who responded to a magazine survey have had sexual intercourse with men, and nearly two-thirds have had unprotected heterosexual intercourse. One-sixth of respondents have ever had anal intercourse with a male partner, and the same proportion have ever had a sexually transmitted disease (STD)

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3209700.html

 

[bozack]

it was a ballot measure that he felt like contributing to in the past as an individual. Agree with the herd or else apparently.

 

[mchammer187]

As long as he is not pulling a Chik-Fil-A I can tolerate it but I am pretty divided. I fully support gay marriage but does that mean I want everyone that disagrees with my position fired? I think the world would be much worse if everyone held that viewpoint.

As far as I know he has only made one political contribution. That said a CEO is the figurehead of a company and he is the ambassador and ultimately represents the company's image. So CEOs definitely deserve much more scrutiny than anyone else. If I was a gay employee and worked for Firefox than it would make me uneasy to have the head of the company supporting such things.

 

[Darwin333]

Conform or be cast out, eh?

Shrug, just a little free market stuff at play. I am not trying to support either side, simply supporting the system.

 

[Zxian]

Leftists seem to like to bring this up as an argument. The obvious point being that the idea of me, as a straight man, engaging in homosexual sex should be preposterous and/or disgusting to me.

There is one problem with this argument as it applies to LGBT people. A large number of gay people have engaged in straight sex.

And? Do you know that all of them enjoyed their heterosexual experiences? You might want to have a chat with Dan Savage. He finds the vagina as disgusting as you find another man's anus. How many straight people have been involved in homosexual experiences? You can't paint one side of the picture and claim it as unbiased proof.

What if you had been told by your parents, media, and the rest of society that you were "supposed to" have sex with another man? Then you go and try it, find that you don't like it, and find a nice girl to live your life with.

 

[theeedude]

http://projects.latimes.com/prop8/

Did a search for my company name, and bunch of people I know came up on both sides.
It does bring up some interesting privacy concerns.

 

[MrPickins]

Leftists...

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a "leftist", and you weaken your argument in my mind by assuming so.

 

[Sunburn74]

Leftists seem to like to bring this up as an argument. The obvious point being that the idea of me, as a straight man, engaging in homosexual sex should be preposterous and/or disgusting to me.

There is one problem with this argument as it applies to LGBT people. A large number of gay people have engaged in straight sex.


http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3209700.html

Social pressure and social norms are extremely powerful. In fact, I would say most of what defines you as a person (all of us really) is what we were told is the right thing to do. If your parents tell you to drop out of school and work on the farm forever, you probably would and would proclaim farm life to be the best life there is (if you don't believe me just go to talk to a farmer or talk to the amish).

Even sexuality is this way to a degree. The greeks for example thought that true love could only occur between a man and another man. Sure they slept with women but only for reproductive reasons as women were thought to be too dumb to even grasp the idea of love. Greek men (and this is the majority here not the minority) kept young boys whom they would raise, teach and have sex with as part of teaching him to grow up to be a man and this was considered a beautiful process. They also had sex with other men all the time. And again this is the majority of greek men here because it was the SOCIAL norm based around the idea that women are dumb reproductive factories and love is intellectual and could only be grasped by men. Now that idea isn't so prevalent and so sexuality has changed (though there are tribes in Africa that were completely isolated from greece yet through their own course developed and still maintain similar ideals and still have that boy/man love relationships as part of the maturing process to this day, again proof that ideas and social norm are a huge part of sexuality not just biology).

 

[Darwin333]

Leftists seem to like to bring this up as an argument. The obvious point being that the idea of me, as a straight man, engaging in homosexual sex should be preposterous and/or disgusting to me.

There is one problem with this argument as it applies to LGBT people. A large number of gay people have engaged in straight sex.


http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3209700.html

Societal pressure, Being told you are broken or that you shouldn't be that way, worried about being disowned by ones family, ignorant people doing ignorant things, etc... The list goes on as to why a person who is attracted to their sex would try and subdue those feelings and pretend they were something they weren't.

Why do straight men in jail engage in acts that they would otherwise see as preposterous and/or disgusting? How about Catholic priests? Married Republican politicians?

 

[MrPickins]

In addition to societal pressure as explained the two posts above, some people are just bisexual.

LGBT

 

[nehalem256]

Why do straight men in jail engage in acts that they would otherwise see as preposterous and/or disgusting?

Well, that would seem to put a mighty big hole in the you can't choose to be gay thing huh. Seems like straight people can choose to be gay after all. Thanks for the example :thumbsup:

How about Catholic priests?

Gay. 80% raped boys

Married Republican politicians?

I think you meant to say Democratic politicians. Republicans tend to have taste 😛

 

[nehalem256]

Social pressure and social norms are extremely powerful. In fact, I would say most of what defines you as a person (all of us really) is what we were told is the right thing to do. If your parents tell you to drop out of school and work on the farm forever, you probably would and would proclaim farm life to be the best life there is (if you don't believe me just go to talk to a farmer or talk to the amish).

Even sexuality is this way to a degree. The greeks for example thought that true love could only occur between a man and another man. Sure they slept with women but only for reproductive reasons as women were thought to be too dumb to even grasp the idea of love. Greek men (and this is the majority here not the minority) kept young boys whom they would raise, teach and have sex with as part of teaching him to grow up to be a man and this was considered a beautiful process. They also had sex with other men all the time. And again this is the majority of greek men here because it was the SOCIAL norm based around the idea that women are dumb reproductive factories and love is intellectual and could only be grasped by men. Now that idea isn't so prevalent and so sexuality has changed (though there are tribes in Africa that were completely isolated from greece yet through their own course developed and still maintain similar ideals and still have that boy/man love relationships as part of the maturing process to this day, again proof that ideas and social norm are a huge part of sexuality not just biology).

So then. If ~95% of men now are straight. And in Greek times the majority had sex with men wouldn't that mean that sexual orientation is a choice? :biggrin:

Kinda, the opposite of what SSM supporters normally say anyway.

 

[Darwin333]

You have some serious mental problems.

Costing someone their job is not the way to deal with this situation.

The CEO is entitled to his opinion. His opinion should not cost him is job, home, car, family,,,, or anything else. No more than voting democrat should cost you.

Do you have any level of responsibility? Home, car note, family,,, probably not. Not for you to be saying crap like what you have.

Yet you think the CEO should fire the employees for their opinion.... That's a whole lot of hypocrisy in just two posts.

 

[Darwin333]

Well, that would seem to put a mighty big hole in the you can't choose to be gay thing huh. Seems like straight people can choose to be gay after all. Thanks for the example :thumbsup:

They choose to engage in homosexual acts, that is very different than actually being gay. When they get out of jail they rarely continue to engage in homosexual acts because they now have the ability to bang women. I thought the point was rather simple.

I think you meant to say Democratic politicians. Republicans tend to have taste 😛

I guess if you consider soliciting gay sex from strangers in airports as "taste", sure. Using the way you like to twist words around I take the above as proof that while you personally like the idea of having sex with random men you just don't like the idea of marrying one. Perhaps its to ensure that your options will always be open?

 

[Darwin333]

So then. If ~95% of men now are straight. And in Greek times the majority had sex with men wouldn't that mean that sexual orientation is a choice? :biggrin:

Kinda, the opposite of what SSM supporters normally say anyway.

Didn't you just argue that men are born straight, as in without choice? Which is it?

 

[Aikouka]

Until Mozilla starts attempting to negatively influence me against homosexuals, why should I care? If you're going to be pissed off at the guy for anything, be mad that he created JavaScript. Blech!

I was also rather surprised that it took until today for someone to post this since it happened the other day. Also, I don't see a notice that people are apparently rallying around OkCupid posting a stand. If you go to their site with Firefox, they redirect you to a page asking you to consider switching to a different browser.

 

[nehalem256]

They choose to engage in homosexual acts, that is very different than actually being gay. When they get out of jail they rarely continue to engage in homosexual acts because they now have the ability to bang women. I thought the point was rather simple.

That is a non-nonsensical statement. What does being gay mean other than a person who engages in homosexual acts?

Besides. It could just be that prison provides them with a socially approved venue for engaging in homosexual behavior 😉

And I believe there is an issue in the black community with men having sex with men, but not calling themselves gay. Now who makes up a lot of prisoners?:hmm:

 

[BoomerD]

As I've said before freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences for that speech.

His actions were directed specifically to attack the civil rights of his employees and his employees' friends. Shockingly enough, they didn't like that. Saying they don't want to work for someone who attacks their civil rights and the civil rights of those they care about is a perfectly normal response to this kind of behavior.

So...should those employees who have spoken out against the CEO be fired for doing so? Isn't that what you're saying? They're certainly free to say whatever they want...especially if they don't do it while on company time...or on a company site...but by the same token, isn't the CEO free to let them go for saying it?
Odds are, most of them are "at will" employees and non-union...

OR, if they really don't want to "work for someone who attacks their civil rights and the civil rights of those they care about," shouldn't they just quit their jobs?

 

[fskimospy]

So...should those employees who have spoken out against the CEO be fired for doing so? Isn't that what you're saying? They're certainly free to say whatever they want...especially if they don't do it while on company time...or on a company site...but by the same token, isn't the CEO free to let them go for saying it?
Odds are, most of them are "at will" employees and non-union...

OR, if they really don't want to "work for someone who attacks their civil rights and the civil rights of those they care about," shouldn't they just quit their jobs?

Yes they can be fired for this. They won't be, but they could be. If Mozilla thinks that they won't invite a shitstorm by doing so they are gravely mistaken, but I doubt they think that.

That's just how employment in the US works.

 

[Zxian]

That is a non-nonsensical statement. What does being gay mean other than a person who engages in homosexual acts?

You speak as though sexuality is a straight or gay matter. Apparently you haven't heard of bisexuals.

 

[Victorian Gray]

That is a non-nonsensical statement. What does being gay mean other than a person who engages in homosexual acts?

Are you really that stupid?! Really?!

So, a homosexual who is celibate is no longer a homosexual?

So, a heterosexual who is celibate is no longer a heterosexual?

 

[MrPickins]

Yes they can be fired for this. They won't be, but they could be. If Mozilla thinks that they won't invite a shitstorm by doing so they are gravely mistaken, but I doubt they think that.

That's just how employment in the US works.

They won't be fired, but they probably hurt their future prospects. Not many companies want their employees to be the kind that like to rock the boat.

Brendan Eich isn't the only one whose exercise of free speech can have repercussions.

True freedom, baby. :thumbsup:

 

[nehalem256]

Are you really that stupid?! Really?!

So, a homosexual who is celibate is no longer a homosexual?

So, a heterosexual who is celibate is no longer a heterosexual?

Isn't that actually pretty much the exact opposite of what I was talking about?

We were discussing prisoners who engage in homosexual acts while in prison. And trying to pretend that such people who engage in homosexual acts are straight because they don't call themselves gay.