affleck spars with bill maher & harris over islam

[Kadarin]

How is what another religion believes my problem again?

Islam is a cancer spreading in the world, a cancer that does not tolerate things and ideas that are not Islamic. If you live in a bubble, it certainly may not be your problem now or ever. However, if it spreads far enough, someone might be chopping your head off because you're not Islamic enough.

 

[bradly1101]

Oh wow, a comedian and actor discussing religion.

Exactly.

I saw the whole thing on TV, and can see both sides. On one hand the Koran can be read as intending harm and death on those who sin, but so can a reading of the Bible. The question is, are the vast amount of Muslims moderate and don't believe in those punishments? Not being a man of religion or being in a place of mostly Muslims, I probably can't say but there seems to be no dearth of footage of anti US/western protests, even in Europe. We inflame the ideologues by supporting their enemies, Christianity, gay marriage, divorce, etc.

I try to keep to foreign and print sources of news (American TV news always seems to have an agenda - especially Fox), and they often interview locals in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, all over Africa, Central America, all over Asia, Palestine, etc., and in the poorest places (both Christian and Muslim) the families are huge. When it comes time for the young men to make their livings, there are no jobs. So there is a lot of idle time, and some turn to use that time in protest, while others 'radicalize.' That is a thing, and I believe they are in the minority, but growing.

When you know there are not enough jobs, food and facilities I wonder what is the motivation to have a lot of kids other than "it feels good"? I know in some societies it's a man's way of showing fertility. And to many cultures and religions large families are encouraged and in some contraception is prohibited. And there are deeper reasons.

Until the problem of overpopulation (including all these idle men) is addressed, all this strife, territorialism, divisions and punishments will only worsen. As will our reaction, which will beget more radicalization.

Again I point to the amazing book The Sixth Extinction and the obvious conclusion that the earth's only real problem (and therefore man's) is humanity.

 

[rudder]

We are only supposed to listen to political science majors and communications majors discuss that sort of thing on TV.
At least its better than talking to engineers and college students about it on the internet.

People like Ben Affleck are in the ticket selling business. Can we really expect him to spew crap other than what he thinks the public would like him to say? Plus he also needs to keep his liberal Hollywood overlords happy.

 

[bradly1101]

People like Ben Affleck are in the ticket selling business. Can we really expect him to spew crap other than what he thinks the public would like him to say? Plus he also needs to keep his liberal Hollywood overlords happy.

I think he believes in what he says. Actors have big mouthpieces that go along with their notoriety.

 

[smackababy]

I bet this in an intelligent debate where both sides get to put forth their facts and discuss the merits. - said nobody about anything Bill Maher has been a part of.

I'd love to take him seriously, if he wasn't such a fucking douche bag blasting half facts at his single conservative guest while his circle jerk squad chimes in with irrelevance.

 

[NoStateofMind]

It's not your problem when another religion belief is that you and yours should be dead for them to prosper?

So your mentality is "Get them before they get me" amiright? Silliness. This boogie man concept that has you so fearful for your life is in fact no direct threat to you at all. Fear should not be your guide.

Islam is a cancer spreading in the world, a cancer that does not tolerate things and ideas that are not Islamic. If you live in a bubble, it certainly may not be your problem now or ever. However, if it spreads far enough, someone might be chopping your head off because you're not Islamic enough.

Fearmonger much? A politician couldn't have said it better! "what if" this or that yourself into oblivion.

 

[moonbogg]

As you move away from the center regions, you get a big drop off in Muslim population. So while it is true that the percentage drops in terms of view, the corresponding drop in population density drops even further.

To be fair, this is where my conservation ended. The point Sam Harris was making, is that a very large part of the group defined as Muslim have views that seem objectively harmful to society once you don't view them through a morally religious angle. I think the point Harris was making, is that currently, global religious terrorist groups typically come from a Muslim background. He did not say it only comes from that group I should also say.

The argument was that currently, Muslims are far more likely to hold views such as stoning as a punishment for adultery than non Muslims, and that saying that labels you a racist by many.

Bullshit and false. These things are time dependent, not religion dependent. Christianity has molded to the shapes of reformed societies and Islam has done so at a different rate or in different ways. Christians used to do all sorts of lovely things that are just as ugly as beheading, if not worse. People are often disgusting, but its because they are people.

 

[ivwshane]

So your mentality is "Get them before they get me" amiright? Silliness. This boogie man concept that has you so fearful for your life is in fact no direct threat to you at all. Fear should not be your guide.



Fearmonger much? A politician couldn't have said it better! "what if" this or that yourself into oblivion.

This is exactly how I feel. It's far too easy to paint with broad strokes when motivated by fear instead of thinking and analyzing rationally.

 

[smackababy]

Can we compare Christianity 600 years ago to Islam right now and see which one is worse? I mean, Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity right? So, in 600 years, one would hope they just oppressing gays and fighting science, not beheading people right?

 

[momeNt]

Maybe people shouldn't attack religion at all, only people. The Nazi party existed before Hitler's involvement, kind of the same thing. Attack leaders in Islamic thought that spread any sort of violence, the same as we don't like Hitler for doing what he did to the Nazi Party.

 

[HumblePie]

So your mentality is "Get them before they get me" amiright? Silliness. This boogie man concept that has you so fearful for your life is in fact no direct threat to you at all. Fear should not be your guide.

No, you are making assumption and thus making an ass out of yourself.

You asked when should the religious beliefs of others concern you. I express when you should be concerned and nothing more. You went off the deep end of retard with your assumptions after that.

 

[sportage]

Wow. A thread discussing still another celebrity, Ben Affleck, and their politics.
I'd suggest movie stars stick to film making.
I mean really... who the fuck cares?

 

[NoStateofMind]

No, you are making assumption and thus making an ass out of yourself.

You asked when should the religious beliefs of others concern you. I express when you should be concerned and nothing more. You went off the deep end of retard with your assumptions after that.

My apologies.

So why is what another religion believes your problem? Is the answer the same?

 

[HumblePie]

My apologies.

So why is what another religion believes your problem? Is the answer the same?

If another religion believes my death and demise is their salvation, and they have members of that religion acting upon it already, I believe I should have a bit of concern to that.

Now as for my actions based on that concern would be based on the scenario as a whole and more along the lines of specifics. Something to which your broad-stroked question didn't really have a ready answer for as such questions are typically of trolling style questions.

 

[squarecut1]

If another religion believes my death and demise is their salvation, and they have members of that religion acting upon it already, I believe I should have a bit of concern to that.

.

No, Islam does not have that belief. Yes, it IS possible to educate yourself. Try that sometime. Thank you

 

[NoStateofMind]

If another religion believes my death and demise is their salvation, and they have members of that religion acting upon it already, I believe I should have a bit of concern to that.

Now as for my actions based on that concern would be based on the scenario as a whole and more along the lines of specifics. Something to which your broad-stroked question didn't really have a ready answer for as such questions are typically of trolling style questions.

I readily admit it was trolling your minds for a different perspective given that the overwhelming response seems to be "ISLAMIC SKY IS FALLING ON ALL NON-BELIEVERS GRAB UR GUNS!".

 

[Fern]

So your mentality is "Get them before they get me" amiright? Silliness. This boogie man concept that has you so fearful for your life is in fact no direct threat to you at all. Fear should not be your guide.



Fearmonger much? A politician couldn't have said it better! "what if" this or that yourself into oblivion.

A question: At what point, or upon what act or set of circumstances, do you think it justified to consider radical Islam a threat?

Fern

 

[Nebor]

Most Muslims believe in death to punish apostasy & homosexuality, oppression of women, and the use of liberal institutions to infiltrate and conquer foreign civilizations. Muslims who don't believe in those things aren't following their faith, so pointing to them as "moderate muslims" is ridiculous.

 

[NoStateofMind]

A question: At what point, or upon what act or set of circumstances, do you think it justified to consider radical Islam a threat?

Fern

As it should be for everyone. When they are directly threatened. Just as if it were any other person you come in contact with on a daily basis. What Religion they hold be damned. At what point is it for you?

 

[Fern]

As it should be for everyone. When they are directly threatened. Just as if it were any other person you come in contact with on a daily basis. What Religion they hold be damned. At what point is it for you?

When you say "When they are directly threatened" should I take that to mean a direct threat to me personally (as in I am in fear of being beheaded etc.)?

If so, I cannot agree. I do not believe a direct threat to me is the only basis for considering an individual or group (or disease etc) a threat. A threat to others, such as the massacre of the religious minorities in Syria, is sufficient for me. The Kurds, while Muslim, near the Turkish border are likely facing massacre too. Lately, the US authorities have been practically screaming about threats to places here in the US. While I live in a rural area in the Appalachian Mountains and am unlikely to be affected, I still consider that a threat.

And I believe "threat" need not be confined to that of violence. If the oil producing regions of that area were attacked and production ceased, as Saddam Hussein did with Kuwait, the consequences could be catastrophic. I consider that a threat.

IMO, the world is now too small for a threat to be only something standing right next to me. And my 'self-love' is not so strong as to preclude threats to others as important.

Fern

 

[1prophet]

Can we compare Christianity 600 years ago to Islam right now and see which one is worse? I mean, Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity right? So, in 600 years, one would hope they just oppressing gays and fighting science, not beheading people right?

A common fallacy that somehow Islam requires some similar evolution/reformation to Christianity,

The whole world today including Muslims has access to information, criticisms, and opposing ideas that religions 600 years ago did not have, thanks to the easy access for most like modern libraries, book stores, universities, etc. and of course the internet making any excuse of ignorance that had merit back then non-sequitur today.

Another fallacy is "but the christian did it or this religion was worse" which carries as much weight as it's OK to be bad because your older brother was worse.




These things below and other similar things is why the western world is ahead and if it loses them it will fall behind,

they should be the litmus test of progress and basis for judging a society, not what the christian, Jew, Hindu, pastafarian, scientoligist, etc. did or does not do in the past or present.

Separation of religion from state

The state doesn't tell you how are what to believe or give favoritism to one religious group over another and likewise you cannot force your beliefs on others and if someone wants to leave your religion or become an atheist or start their own they are free to do so, if you refuse to take them back or shun them that is your right but you cannot force them or threaten them or their families and friends.

Freedom of speech,

No blasphemy/hate speech laws, you can freely criticize religion, write a controversial book, or simply draw a funny cartoon and likewise must accept criticism of your religion or lack of without resorting to violence.

Blaming some cartoon or film for provoking violence is no different than blaming what a women wears for provoking rape, both are ignorant and belong in the history books not in modern society.

Women are equal to men, women can marry who they want, have access to the same education, wear what they want, be treated equally under the law, and if the men don't like it too bad.

Rule of secular law is paramount and applies equally to all male and female alike, no religious courts like Sharia or other such nonsense.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Most Muslims believe in death to punish apostasy & homosexuality, oppression of women, and the use of liberal institutions to infiltrate and conquer foreign civilizations. Muslims who don't believe in those things aren't following their faith, so pointing to them as "moderate muslims" is ridiculous.

Liar

 

[ivwshane]

Most Muslims believe in death to punish apostasy & homosexuality, oppression of women, and the use of liberal institutions to infiltrate and conquer foreign civilizations. Muslims who don't believe in those things aren't following their faith, so pointing to them as "moderate muslims" is ridiculous.

So they are republicans by another name?

 

[ivwshane]

Liar

He said Muslims but he meant chriatain fundamentalists

 

[squarecut1]

So they are republicans by another name?

I've said this before. They may hate each other, but the right wing and extremist Muslims have a lot in common. Intolerance of anything and everything that is not exactly like them