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affleck spars with bill maher & harris over islam

I was talking to my GF about this. Sam Harris is pretty well respected when it comes to religious debates. My discussion with my GF boiled down to this. How much of a group must believe in a thing, to generalize the group as having that belief. I think most would find it acceptable to say that men like sports, knowing that not all men like sports. The generalization is typically accepted because it is very common for men to like sports. The issue to me, is that is an acceptable thing to do, as long as that is not done with religion. For some reason, you get a lot more push back when it comes to generalizations with respect to religion.

So when I see articles like this

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/

I feel like I can say that death as a punishment for apostasy is a typical opinion of Muslims.
 
Subyman said:
Oh wow, a comedian and actor discussing religion.
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We are only supposed to listen to political science majors and communications majors discuss that sort of thing on TV.
At least its better than talking to engineers and college students about it on the internet.
 
realibrad said:
I was talking to my GF about this. Sam Harris is pretty well respected when it comes to religious debates. My discussion with my GF boiled down to this. How much of a group must believe in a thing, to generalize the group as having that belief. I think most would find it acceptable to say that men like sports, knowing that not all men like sports. The generalization is typically accepted because it is very common for men to like sports. The issue to me, is that is an acceptable thing to do, as long as that is not done with religion. For some reason, you get a lot more push back when it comes to generalizations with respect to religion.

So when I see articles like this

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/

I feel like I can say that death as a punishment for apostasy is a typical opinion of Muslims.
Click to expand...

It may be typical in certain regions (ME) but it falls off sharply as one moves further away. As a percentage among the world population of Muslims I would guess it's lower than 50% who agree with the death punishment, possibly less than 40%.
 
It does not help that they're at war all the time.

All we ever hear about with Islam is the violence and the threat they pose to us. We do not see Muslim Americans standing shoulder to shoulder with us against violence.

When September 11th is the face of Islam, Americans are going to react badly. Our communication on the subject needs to reflect something better than today's latest news of death and suffering.
 
The discussion was kinda ridiculous since they didn't let each other speak or form a coherent thought. Then when Maher dropped the F-bomb it just was stupid.

From an American point of view we fear Muslims and we like to paint them with a broad brush.

Living internationally among many Muslims (as well as ex-Muslims) you get a far more accurate view of their religion. It might not be for me but neither is Christianity. Quite frankly all the Abrahamic religions have their issues. As a people though they are just like you and me. They want to live their lives, raise their children, and grow old with dignity.

Just because there are fundamentalist elements in Islam doesn't mean that the full billion are all terrible and that the religion is inferior. It's kinda the same argument with Catholisim. Just because there are a bunch of rapist priests doesn't mean that all Catholics are bad. No. Just like with Islam the religion has some issues and there are some bad elements.

We just fear things that are different.
 
Jaskalas said:
It does not help that they're at war all the time.

All we ever hear about with Islam is the violence and the threat they pose to us. We do not see Muslim Americans standing shoulder to shoulder with us against violence.

When September 11th is the face of Islam, Americans are going to react badly. Our communication on the subject needs to reflect something better than today's latest news of death and suffering.
Click to expand...

The USA is at war all the time. We also impose harsh sanctions on countries that cause untold deaths. So turn this around and realize that just like we react badly to 911 others might react badly to what we do.

Someone needs to stand up and be a big boy and stop trying to solve all of this with violence. We need to stop trying to impose our way of life on everyone regardless of their history, culture, or personal wishes.
 
Conservative (holding a public position in government) does/says something stupid: oh, it's just one, two,.. three lunatics,.. who cares??

Liberal does/says something stupid: ,.. typical - they are all the same.

I don't remember electing Ben & Bill as a Democratic leaders,.. like some of these conservatives are elected into the Republican party.

Truth be told; these men are morons - and they rarely make an actual and legitimate influence. Meanwhile, the opposite is speaking from a seat IN the government.
 
Yikes@Ben. Have to laugh at the actors running mouths on political issues. What, did Ben sleep at a Holiday Inn the night before?

Like a child. Though he had some points, obviously, it was hard to watch because of his demeanor of presenting.


Thought Maher and the guy next to him made effective points as well, albeit it with less whiny bitch mode that Ben went into.


Labels are bad when used to demean or control viewpoints, whether it's a religious label or a political label. Use of labels can, and often are, used to take control and destroy intelligent thought rather than find best solutions for those being labeled. R and D and C and L labels in our culture is very bad for most of us living here as well.
 
It does seem kind of silly to point at Muslims and call them murderers, and at the same time ignore the (hundreds of thousands?) of people the U.S. has killed during its ever so noble "anti terror campaigns".
Some Islamists cut off a few heads and we point and call them out, and then the U.S. bombs start dropping and don't fucking stop for years and years. I don't know. Just saying. No one is innocent. I just see people doing the ugly shit that people do. I honestly don't think it has a thing to do with any religion. If religion never took hold, people would still do what they do and slaughter each other, guaranteed.
 
alzan said:
It may be typical in certain regions (ME) but it falls off sharply as one moves further away. As a percentage among the world population of Muslims I would guess it's lower than 50% who agree with the death punishment, possibly less than 40%.
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As you move away from the center regions, you get a big drop off in Muslim population. So while it is true that the percentage drops in terms of view, the corresponding drop in population density drops even further.

To be fair, this is where my conservation ended. The point Sam Harris was making, is that a very large part of the group defined as Muslim have views that seem objectively harmful to society once you don't view them through a morally religious angle. I think the point Harris was making, is that currently, global religious terrorist groups typically come from a Muslim background. He did not say it only comes from that group I should also say.

The argument was that currently, Muslims are far more likely to hold views such as stoning as a punishment for adultery than non Muslims, and that saying that labels you a racist by many.
 
moonbogg said:
It does seem kind of silly to point at Muslims and call them murderers, and at the same time ignore the (hundreds of thousands?) of people the U.S. has killed during its ever so noble "anti terror campaigns".
Some Islamists cut off a few heads and we point and call them out, and then the U.S. bombs start dropping and don't fucking stop for years and years. I don't know. Just saying. No one is innocent. I just see people doing the ugly shit that people do. I honestly don't think it has a thing to do with any religion. If religion never took hold, people would still do what they do and slaughter each other, guaranteed.
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wow talk about having nothing do with anything.....

Just a bunch of goofy comparisons!
Islam is what it is deal with it......
Christianity is what it is deal with it!

People will be people....
 
Seems that this piece is for entertainment purposes only. Sorta like Fox News. It's just that not everyone sees the latter that way.
 
I dont normally watch this show. but he is 100% correct on this case.

I say its worth watching that segment, funny to see Ben freaking out.
 
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