Aethiests and the ACLU would have a fit over this

[shoRunner]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Once it became clear that I was arguing with Christians, I started making teh funnies. I'm not taking this thread seriously at all. To me, arguing with a Christian is equivalent to arguing with someone in an insane asylum. They're not the same sort of person as me. I don't care what you say, what you think, and I don't respect your opinion. You can think less of me for it, and that's fine, because if you're a religious person (any religion) then I already think nothing of you at all.

Uhoh, my blow up Jesus doll is giving me his horny look...

LOL...what priest raped you?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: GuideBot
Wait, there's Christians in this thread? Who?

Anyway, you're being a biggot, Nebor.

You're the one saying it's bone-headedly easy to tell who a Christian is, so you tell me. :roll:

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: GuideBot
Wait, there's Christians in this thread? Who?

Anyway, you're being a biggot, Nebor.

You're the one saying it's bone-headedly easy to tell who a Christian is, so you tell me. :roll:

You're the one refusing to understand, not me.

if you're a religious person (any religion) then I already think nothing of you at all.

That's pure, unadulterated hatred and biggotry. You're just as looney as the religious that you believe need to be committed to an insane asylumn.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: shoRunner

Originally posted by: Nebor
Once it became clear that I was arguing with Christians, I started making teh funnies. I'm not taking this thread seriously at all. To me, arguing with a Christian is equivalent to arguing with someone in an insane asylum. They're not the same sort of person as me. I don't care what you say, what you think, and I don't respect your opinion. You can think less of me for it, and that's fine, because if you're a religious person (any religion) then I already think nothing of you at all.

Uhoh, my blow up Jesus doll is giving me his horny look...

LOL...what priest raped you?

Gay kid growing up in a baptist church. That ****** warps you for life.

I wish someone would blow up enough churches so that people didn't feel safe going to church anymore. Then most of them would have to close down, and religion could fade away faster than it is currently.

:Q You're insane :Q

 

[shoRunner]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: shoRunner

Originally posted by: Nebor
Once it became clear that I was arguing with Christians, I started making teh funnies. I'm not taking this thread seriously at all. To me, arguing with a Christian is equivalent to arguing with someone in an insane asylum. They're not the same sort of person as me. I don't care what you say, what you think, and I don't respect your opinion. You can think less of me for it, and that's fine, because if you're a religious person (any religion) then I already think nothing of you at all.

Uhoh, my blow up Jesus doll is giving me his horny look...

LOL...what priest raped you?

Gay kid growing up in a baptist church. That ****** warps you for life.

I wish someone would blow up enough churches so that people didn't feel safe going to church anymore. Then most of them would have to close down, and religion could fade away faster than it is currently.

lol and you condemn Timothy McVeigh, sounds like you want to become his antireligious antithesis. if you could only see your own hypocrisy...

 

[LcarsSystem]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem
Did I ever say anything like that?

My mistake? I think I need to then ask for clarification on what you meant by:

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem
ANYONE who knows what it means to be an American would have a problem with that if it were on public or government property.

Anyone who obviously believes in the constitution; the seperation of church and state. The public (community) or government endorsement of ONE RELIGION is something to have a problem with or be upset over. My main point is even if we could cover all religions, we would still alienate those who DO NOT believe, that is one of the main reasons the constitution prevents gonvernment endorsement of a particular religion. I have no problem with this being on church property, however, I would have a problem with it being on display in a public park or in a mall, or someplace that you go to that doesn't specifically cater to one's beliefs.

I do not even know why you are debating me on this, I said nothing inflamatory, I made no such remark about criminalizing anything. I made no such assesment of atheists being superior to that of Xians, I think you may be taking this a little farther than my original intent. I believe adamantly in the seperation of church and state, the church should not interfere in the affairs of the state and vice versa. To not take heed of that specific clause in the constitution would be as if that person was spitting in the faces of the founding fathers themselves.

 

[Nik]

That comes down to interpretation of the constitution, I guess.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: GuideBot
That comes down to interpretation of the constitution, I guess.

There's no interpretation to "the seperation of church and state". It's quite literal in its intention.
How the fvck would you interpret it? US is a christian state?

 

[LcarsSystem]

Originally posted by: GuideBot
That comes down to interpretation of the constitution, I guess.

I would hope that people go with the less authoritarian interpretation. You know I was raised a christian, I have no problems with the sane ones, as long as everyone minds their own damn business I don't care what they do.

But for the record, I am agnostic.


Amendment 1
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

By putting a public ordament up, or by publicly endorsing a religion, you are automatically granting it respect. What happens if someone has a problem with this? When they complain one of two things could possibly happen; they are forced to take it down, or they make a law or it falls under a current law that would protect it. Ofcourse I don't see how that could happen because of the bolded phrase above. Keep in mind I am talking about blatant religious symbols in public places, or on government property.

 

[LcarsSystem]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: GuideBot
That comes down to interpretation of the constitution, I guess.

There's no interpretation to "the seperation of church and state". It's quite literal in its intention.
How the fvck would you interpret it? US is a christian state?

It's sad that there is even a debate over this.

 

[mattocs]

As an agnostic and a supporter of peoples rights, I don't see a problem. As long as my family and I are not forced to listen to who ever owns its BS, all is well. As the owner of it has rights too, and as much as I might disagree with what they belive, they too have rights which I would fight for.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Right. The government has to keep their paws out of the afairs of the church, not the other way around. That's not saying that you can't have the 10 commandments in a court room. That's not saying that you can't have religious artifacts/symbols on government or public property. People in power are just so anti-religion that they'll inject their own meaning into "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

 

[LcarsSystem]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Right. The government has to keep their paws out of the afairs of the church, not the other way around.

But you do see how if the church decides to do something that is controversial, and a law would have to be established to protect the church.......

Do you see it now?

I hope you do.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Right. The government has to keep their paws out of the afairs of the church, not the other way around.

But you do see how if the church decides to do something that is controversial, and a law would have to be established to protect the church.......

Do you see it now?

I hope you do.

It's not saying that the church is above the law. If the church does something that breaks the law, the church is just as guilty as anyone else breaking the law. Congress can't make laws that specifically target religion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyway, it's late and I have to be up in 3 hours for work. Sleep well.

 

[LcarsSystem]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Right. The government has to keep their paws out of the afairs of the church, not the other way around.

But you do see how if the church decides to do something that is controversial, and a law would have to be established to protect the church.......

Do you see it now?

I hope you do.

It's not saying that the church is above the law. If the church does something that breaks the law, the church is just as guilty as anyone else breaking the law. Congress can't make laws that specifically target religion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyway, it's late and I have to be up in 3 hours for work. Sleep well.

I was trying to get across that the church has no place in influencing our laws or rights. No religion has that right, that is why many of our ancestors fled to the Americas in the first place.

 

[Amused]

Let's allow the men who wrote the Constitution tell us it's intent:

"The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
(Treaty with Tripoli, 1797. Presented by President and Founding Father John Adams, and ratified unanimously by Congress.)

"No religious Test shall ever be required as a qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States"
(U. S. Constitution, 1787, Art. 6, Sec. 3).

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus, building a wall of separation between Church and State"
(Thomas Jefferson, 1802, letter to Danbury Baptist Association).

"The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State"
(James Madison [author of the first amendment], 1819, Writings, 8:432).

"Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance"
(James Madison, 1822, Writings, 9:101).

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"
(James Madison, undated, William and Mary Quarterly, 1946, 3:555).

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Govt (sic) will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
(James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, 1822)

 

[LcarsSystem]

Originally posted by: Amused
Let's allow the men who wrote the Constitution tell us it's intent:

"The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
(Treaty with Tripoli, 1797. Presented by President and Founding Father John Adams, and ratified unanimously by Congress.)

"No religious Test shall ever be required as a qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States"
(U. S. Constitution, 1787, Art. 6, Sec. 3).

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus, building a wall of separation between Church and State"
(Thomas Jefferson, 1802, letter to Danbury Baptist Association).

"The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State"
(James Madison [author of the first amendment], 1819, Writings, 8:432).

"Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance"
(James Madison, 1822, Writings, 9:101).

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"
(James Madison, undated, William and Mary Quarterly, 1946, 3:555).

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Govt (sic) will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
(James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, 1822)

QFMFT

:thumbsup::beer:

 

[revnja]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Why does anyone here give a sh*t?

I don't.

 

[J Heartless Slick]

Originally posted by: Caveman
One thing to remember is that to a follower of "the way" (Christ, disciples, etc), a cross is not a Chistian symbol, but a reminder of how "unchristian" mainstream Chistianity has become with the adoption of ancient, pagan symbols. Most people don't realize the "cross" was amalgamated into "christianity" alot like Christmas, Easter, etc... to appease the pagan masses and the church at the same time; all in the name of political gain.

Aside from the fact that the cross (like pictures of Jesus, etc) is a "graven image" (which violates the 2nd commandment), it is also a carryover from worship of the God of Tamuz, and really has no place in Christianity.

So really, atheists and the ACLU should be happy to see such confusion coming from people who profess to be Christians as they are violating at least one of its guidelines on a daily basis.

I doubt that most people and the ACLU care about what Christians profess. It has something to do with freedom of religion.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: Caveman
One thing to remember is that to a follower of "the way" (Christ, disciples, etc), a cross is not a Chistian symbol, but a reminder of how "unchristian" mainstream Chistianity has become with the adoption of ancient, pagan symbols. Most people don't realize the "cross" was amalgamated into "christianity" alot like Christmas, Easter, etc... to appease the pagan masses and the church at the same time; all in the name of political gain.

Aside from the fact that the cross (like pictures of Jesus, etc) is a "graven image" (which violates the 2nd commandment), it is also a carryover from worship of the God of Tamuz, and really has no place in Christianity.

So really, atheists and the ACLU should be happy to see such confusion coming from people who profess to be Christians as they are violating at least one of its guidelines on a daily basis.

wrong. Look at some early church icons.

 

[zerocool1]

"The Statue of Liberty has a different meaning for the country," Ms. Martinez said. "It doesn't need to be used in a religious sense."

QFT I'm religious, but I'm Hindu. I get put off when a particular tone is taken in talking about Christianity. I think the tone is, you're going to Hell because you don't believe in Christ. Its that indignant self-righteous b.s. that annoys the hell out of me.

It's tacky and an eyesore.

 

[IGBT]

..ya. aclu want's to rid any and all crosses from public view including cemeteries yet nearly every tattooed bolt faced nose periced groupies.. prositiutes and rappers are walking around wit jewel studded crucifix's swinging from gold chains around their tattooed necks. WTF??

 

[OutHouse]

i wish a mosque would put up a bigger statue across the street but instead of a cross in lady libertys hand she has a copy of the Koran.

gee i wonder if the people of Memphis would be just as accepting?


edit: i find the statue very tacky. Mary Ellens Bail Bonds in Brighton Colorado (Dog the bounty hunters old digs) has a liberty statue in her front yard of her office. granted its only 20 feet or so but its just as tacky. The church that put that up doenst understand the the founding fathers WERE NOT CHRISTIANS!!!

 

[nakedfrog]

I'm not an atheist and I find it offensive--but not surprising.

 

[Kristi2k]

Originally posted by: loki8481
way to take an american symbol and use it to peddle your religion.

from the article...

She was the idea of Mr. Williams, a very successful pastor whose church, World Overcomers, qualifies as mega: it has a school, a bowling alley, a roller rink, a bookstore and, he said, 12,000 members.

wtfbbq :Q

You do realize this country's founders were Christians, right? I really like the photo displayed in the NY Times.