Advice needed on tenant end of lease

[OCGuy]

Not really, but it's clear how you did "time" you have made bad choices.

In CA, there is no law to replace carpet based on time.

Here in S. Florida, it's accepted that the carpet gets replaced every 'few' tenants more or less.

Our leases usually read that you just have to have cleaned the place. There is no deep shampoo of carpet, no repainting, no replacing fixtures, etc.

That said in the places I have rented I have left them improved.

I'm not even sure you disagree with me........? God I could cut diamonds when you talk to me like that. mmmmmmmm

 

[NetWareHead]

Do you qualify really? I have heard this cry before.

I would qualify. That is if I even wanted to deal with section 8 system and the tenants. D: <shudder> But I won't ever do so not in a million years. My gf's father has a 4 unit building and all of them are section 8. Nothing but problems...

 

[alkemyst]

Less than a month, I dont remember exactly how long as it was 3 years ago but lets say 2 weeks from start to new installation. The stove breaks and you don't try to fix it or at least get a professional opinion first? That was my route. 2 burners out of four suddenly stopped working so it is not like he couldn't cook at all. After that option was exhausted began the process of stove replacement which also includes research time to pick a good stove.

/jesusfacepalm

Your rental just dictates a simple stove that's available from any reseller in your area.

If you want to test your stove you could just move the burners that work to the spots that the burners don't work. If it works, then order some $10 elements.

Do you try to overcomplicate your life?

You seem REALLY stressed here and most of everyone is actually giving you the low hanging fruit.

Whenever I had to clean the unit it wasn't anything more than emptying the refrigerator, wiping things down, vacuuming, mopping the floors and making sure all the garbage is out.

 

[OCGuy]

I would qualify. That is if I even wanted to deal with section 8 system and the tenants. D: <shudder> But I won't ever do so not in a million years. My gf's father has a 4 unit building and all of them are section 8. Nothing but problems...

If he took Section 8 it was because that is the market his units are in.

I have never had a problem with Section 8, although the initial paperwork/setting up the inspection are a chore.

If he is having problems with all 4 tenants, he (or his management company) has a very poor screening system.

If the problems are with the property, well that isn't anyone else's fault. I have seen many a investor defer maintenance to the point that it absolutely breaks them.....especially on quadriplexes, due to their nature.

 

[NetWareHead]

/jesusfacepalm

Your rental just dictates a simple stove that's available from any reseller in your area.

Really? And what do you know about my rental? I'm shooting for $2350 monthly rent on my next tenant. I'm transforming the place into a luxury/high end rental. I'm not just getting a $300 ghetto stove from Rent-A-Center. It needs to match the granite and the other appliances. I'm not going to buy just anything, I research on performance, longevity, warranty, user satisfaction etc.. You know, make smart educated, non impulsive purchases

If you want to test your stove you could just move the burners that work to the spots that the burners don't work. If it works, then order some $10 elements.

Do you try to overcomplicate your life?

Well I don't recall you breathing down my neck as I tinkered with the stove and tried to get it to work. Funny I thought I was by myself as I did exactly what you suggested. :\ Maybe you weren't paying attention but the stove is gas and doesn't use electric elements.

 

[NetWareHead]

If he took Section 8 it was because that is the market his units are in.

I have never had a problem with Section 8, although the initial paperwork/setting up the inspection are a chore.

If he is having problems with all 4 tenants, he (or his management company) has a very poor screening system.

If the problems are with the property, well that isn't anyone else's fault. I have seen many a investor defer maintenance to the point that it absolutely breaks them.....especially on quadriplexes, due to their nature.

I don't know about that. My gf and I when he passes and we inherit the place (hopefully not for a long time) are going to evict everyone and gut the place. It needs rennovations and we are hoping to beautify the place to attract better tenants and avoid section 8 entirely.

The state pays on time but its really the quality and mental state of the tenants. These are all people that could never make it on their own, can;t hold down jobs and are just failures. None of them can even get a utility bill in their own name so gf's dad pays the gas bill and charges them each month for their share!

There is also the issue with him not getting the rent he wants and the state balks when he wants to increase the rent. They tell him section 8 program won;t pay out for a rent increase so he is stuck in a barely profitable zone.

 

[OCGuy]

I'm shooting for $2350 monthly rent on my next tenant. I'm transforming the place into a luxury/high end rental. I'm not just getting a $300 ghetto stove from Rent-A-Center. It needs to match the granite and the other appliances. I'm not going to buy just anything, I research on performance, longevity, warranty, user satisfaction etc.. You know, make smart educated, non impulsive purchases

I hope you have done the ROI numbers....

By the way you seem to baby this property, it almost sounds like you once lived in it, and have an emotional attachment to it as opposed to seeing it as an investment. Either that or it is your only/first rental.

Spending extra time/energy for curb-appeal will just make it that much worse when you get a poor tenant. As I'm sure you know, since your/her? father is an investor, poor tenants permeate all income levels/ethnicities/ages/etc.

If you are +$150/mo over model match comparable rentals, your "luxury" stove is not going to push someone towards your property. Even if you wait for that perfect potential tenant, how many months are you willing to let it sit with zero rent coming in?

There is probably a point between "ghetto" and "luxury." Your passive income is supposed to be much more passive!

 

[OCGuy]

I don't know about that. My gf and I when he passes and we inherit the place (hopefully not for a long time) are going to evict everyone and gut the place. It needs rennovations and we are hoping to beautify the place to attract better tenants and avoid section 8 entirely.

The state pays on time but its really the quality and mental state of the tenants. These are all people that could never make it on their own, can;t hold down jobs and are just failures. None of them can even get a utility bill in their own name so gf's dad pays the gas bill and charges them each month for their share!

There is also the issue with him not getting the rent he wants and the state balks when he wants to increase the rent. They tell him section 8 program won;t pay out for a rent increase so he is stuck in a barely profitable zone.

Right but I doubt there are a ton of non-section 8 prospective tenants banging down the doors.....sweet deal inheriting it, some of those old 4-plexes definitely need a completely new life....one damn pipe bursts, or one tenant gets roaches, and the whole thing goes to shat!

 

[rudeguy]

Right but I doubt there are a ton of non-section 8 prospective tenants banging down the doors.....sweet deal inheriting it, some of those old 4-plexes definitely need a completely new life....one damn pipe bursts, or one tenant gets roaches, or one sperm whale explodes and the whole thing goes to shat!

Yep...happens all the time

 

[NetWareHead]

I hope you have done the ROI numbers....

I work with realtors and am shown comparable properties. The great thing about this property is that it is a condo so there are exact duplicate units in my development that are similarly upgraded with the same kitchen/amenities I have and are pulling similar rent. So it is pretty easy to examine the results and duplicate on my own units.

By the way you seem to baby this property, it almost sounds like you once lived in it, and have an emotional attachment to it as opposed to seeing it as an investment. Either that or it is your only/first rental.

Yes I did live in it (it was my first home purchase and lived in it for 5 years) and it is in a great location with great school district. So it has potential and I can get good rent from it due to the area. Other than that, there is no emotional attachment. I just try not to lose sight of my financial goals

Spending extra time/energy for curb-appeal will just make it that much worse when you get a poor tenant. As I'm sure you know, since your father is an investor, poor tenants permeate all income levels/ethnicities/ages/etc.

I credit check and do employment/income verification. I won;t take a tenant that spends too much of reported income on the rent I want.

If you are +$150/mo over model match comparable rentals, your "luxury" stove is not going to push someone towards your property. Even if you wait for that perfect potential tenant, how many months are you willing to let it sit with zero rent coming in?

There is probably a point between "ghetto" and "luxury." Your passive income is supposed to be much more passive!

And you are correct about that. No sense in waiting for the perfect tenant so you can lose $ while the house sits empty. After all, this is a gamble too. You don't make $ without taking a risk.

 

[NetWareHead]

Right but I doubt there are a ton of non-section 8 prospective tenants banging down the doors.....sweet deal inheriting it, some of those old 4-plexes definitely need a completely new life....one damn pipe bursts, or one tenant gets roaches, and the whole thing goes to shat!

You absoutely correct about that one. Funny, the place does have bedbugs and roaches. D: I do have high hope for this unit. Not only is it a 4 unit big house but there is also a commercial store space and dedicated parking for both business and rentals. It is smack in the center of a decently large city in a swing neigborhood that I hope in 10 years will improve. Play my cards right and this will be our retirement money here...

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I'm not even sure you disagree with me........? God I could cut diamonds when you talk to me like that. mmmmmmmm

Them is some hard nipples.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I have a tenant who has been in my property for 3 years with no incident and on time rent. He won't be renewing his tenancy since he just purchased a house and his lease ends on end of November. I have it written into my lease that the tenant cleans the rugs. The exact wording is "Tenant agrees to clean carpets prior to vacating". The tenant wanted to move in with a cat and I agreed to this if he agreed to the cleaning.

I don't know if this will be a problem yet but when I inserted that into the lease, I meant him to get a professional carpet cleaning service. I know I should have spelled it out clearer in the lease but it is what it is now.

What recourse do I have if he just vacuums and then sprays some fabreeze around to meet his definition of "cleaning"? This would arguably fulfill the lease. On the other hand, I don't know (as a landlord) if I can just take his word that cleaning was done. I would like to see a receipt so that I know a more thorough cleaning was done rather than just vacuuming and fabreeze for instance. The receipt would also be written proof. Obviously we may have different ideas of what constitutes cleaning.

I'm going to wait it out until he vacates and ask for proof of cleaning when I go and do the final inspection. When he informed me (in email) that he was not going to renew, I responded to him and listed what we will need to do (home inspection, return of security deposit etc...) In that same email, I also asked him to provide a receipt showing proof of cleaning. I think I am going to just wait for his move and see what he does. What would you guys do and how does my position look?

Depends on the state. But in many states if there is ambiguity in a contract and both parties did NOT know about it (i.e., party A though X and party B thought Y, but A and B didn't know they did not see eye to eye), the contract will be construed against the drafter (in this case, you).

That said, if the carpet was legitimately damaged, you could use the tenants security deposit to fix it.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Really? And what do you know about my rental? I'm shooting for $2350 monthly rent on my next tenant. I'm transforming the place into a luxury/high end rental. I'm not just getting a $300 ghetto stove from Rent-A-Center. It needs to match the granite and the other appliances. I'm not going to buy just anything, I research on performance, longevity, warranty, user satisfaction etc.. You know, make smart educated, non impulsive purchases



Well I don't recall you breathing down my neck as I tinkered with the stove and tried to get it to work. Funny I thought I was by myself as I did exactly what you suggested. :\ Maybe you weren't paying attention but the stove is gas and doesn't use electric elements.

LOL and here you are freaking out over a one time $200 cleaning service.

 

[Brainonska511]

I'd tell you to pound sand. Clean the rugs of the apartment in my book means broom/vacuum clean. You want more, especially for such an old carpet, you can hire someone on your own dime.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Yeah it takes some time to get a stove ordered, paid for, delivered and installed.

Popped in aka maintenance, routine inspections, is my place still standing? etc...

Right... So, maybe, less than a week. But "less than a month" is far too long to go without a stove.

What sort of routine inspections are you pulling on this guy? He pays his rent on time for years, there's no need to pop in and check on him.

Maybe this is why he's moving out.

 

[NetWareHead]

LOL and here you are freaking out over a one time $200 cleaning service.

The rich didnt become rich by being careless and pissing money away needlessly. Better the cleaning fee paid out of his pocket than mine.

 

[NetWareHead]

Right... So, maybe, less than a week. But "less than a month" is far too long to go without a stove.

What sort of routine inspections are you pulling on this guy? He pays his rent on time for years, there's no need to pop in and check on him.

Maybe this is why he's moving out.

He had a stove that let him cook on it. 2 out of 4 burners worked as I stated before. Hardly an emergency. I did replace the stove after attempting to fix it.

He did not renew tenancy bc he purchased a home and is moving out.

I check up on all of my properties. Routine inspection aka battery replacement in smoke detectors, filter replacements in air handler, test of heating system in fall season in prep for winter etc... etc.. Thats great that he pays the rent on time. He is supposed to do that so he doesnt get left alone for doing what any normal tenant should be doing in first place. Me as the landlord has every right to do an inspection of my property to make sure it is being treated properly and discover any problems. Its me being proactive. I give him legal notification that I will enter and then go do it. I dont snoop in his personal belongings. I just keep my eyes open for any potential problems that need my attention. I dont think it is out of line for a landlord to do a quarterly inspection.

 

[Schfifty Five]

The rich didnt become rich by being careless and pissing money away needlessly. Better the cleaning fee paid out of his pocket than mine.

And even better if you stop posting here.

Happy Thanksgiving BTW!

 

[NetWareHead]

And even better if you stop posting here.

Happy Thanksgiving BTW!

And likewise better if you stop thinking of me as a charity to give $ away and remember this is a business that is supposed to be profitable. What does it matter if I charge $2350 or $350 when you have no idea the expenses behind the scenes? Yep happy thanksgiving too.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

And likewise better if you stop thinking of me as a charity to give $ away and remember this is a business that is supposed to be profitable. What does it matter if I charge $2350 or $350 when you have no idea the expenses behind the scenes? Yep happy thanksgiving too.

Which reminds me: why are you so paranoid about your property? emotional issues as a child or...

I mean, I'd rather be a little less wealthy and treat people like people instead of have a little more money and be a paranoid douchebag mr. roper

Do you just not have anything better to do with your time but 'inspect' your properties constantly?

 

[Blieb]

Since I read 87% of this thread, I have earned the right to comment.

I've been a tenant. I've been a landlord for a long time. I treat people how I expect to be treated. Based on what I've read, you sound full of yourself and I wouldn't want to be your tenant or landlord.

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1) Do you really think a simple carpet clean is going to eradicate cat dander? This is the first clue that you're irrational / illogical.

2) Your posts complaining about people "demanding" new carpet. Ironic considering this whole thread. The language posted said "request".

3) When the carpet goes to crap, you will replace it unless you rent to people who don't care. But then, they won't care about your property anyways.

4) I pay for deep cleaning. There are turnover costs. I want it done right.

5) 1 month for a new stove? You were baiting everyone. If it worked partially and you were dealing with a repair person or something while actively working the situation, that's one thing ... if it really took 1 month for a stove, then you are a complete failure. Not everyone microwaves all their meals or eats at McDonalds bud.

6) I respond to calls or texts within hours, usually immediately. I have had a few incidents where I was on-site within 20 minutes after a call. If you want to protect the "investment", you need to be prepared to react. How would you handle a major water leak? ... NOW, GO.

7) I'm sorry you're upside down and couldn't sell. Not being near the rental is your choice. I choose to be closer to my big 'investment', unless using a management company.

 

[NetWareHead]

Do you just not have anything better to do with your time but 'inspect' your properties constantly?

Whats wrong with giving notice and walking in there time to time to make sure everything is ok? When you have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested, whats wrong with a proactive approach?

I had one tenant, beautiful girl but just dumb as rocks. I walked into her bathroom and realized that one corner of it was starting a black mold infection. She had never said anything about it to me. When asked: "Oh I didn't know what that was". Anyway, if I had to rely on her to inform me of a problem I would have never heard about it. Stuff like mold is hazardous to health and it destroys/weakens the drywall/tile grout/etc... Since when is checking up on your assets make somebody a mr roper? This is ridiculous...

My GF and I have another rental. This is almost a 100 year old house. There are major issues (mostly related to age) but it is still a lovely place that is nice to live in. We have done so much for the unit lately and all of it would be characterized as violations of tenant privacy and mr roper behavior by all of you.

We went into lowes one day and saw a fridge on clearance with warranty. It was perfect for this tenant so we bought it. Phone call informing him we were entering that afternoon with a new fridge to install. Both of us were happy. Especially since the old fridge was noisy and of an undetermined age (dingy/faded on outside no matter how hard you cleaned it). We even moved all of his food from one fridge to another and organized it nice and neatly for him.

Another story, same tenant. We inspected the property and realized the kitchen light fixture wasn't working. Tenant's answer: "well it wasn't a big deal and I plugged in a standing light fixture in the kitchen to give me all the light I need." Yes the tenant is a nice non demanding guy but from our perspective it had to be fixed. That evolved into an electrical upgrade project where we ran all new runs of romex cabling and replaced the pull-string light fixtures with new ones that had wall switches installed. Tenant was delighted.

And I could go on forever. I run into leaky faucets, running toilets etc all the time... I have to pay the water in some of those units so why shouldn't I fix that? Most tenants don't care to inform me about a leaky faucet...

Wouldn't you want a landlord that was proactive and gave two shits about your home? The tenant will be the immediate benefactor of any upgrades/fixes. I understand how important privacy is but it sounds like you all here would prefer an absentee landlord instead. Of course I don't want to be an intrusive creepy landlord but I have no qualm about entering a unit when there is a legitimate business reason for doing so. If you really desire such privacy then buy your own house where there is no landlord holding a key, then nobody will bother you. I dont understand how you can think it is possible for a landlord to do his job unless he does a regular inspection. Seriously, this mr roper BS is ridiculous.

 

[NetWareHead]

Since I read 87% of this thread, I have earned the right to comment.

I've been a tenant. I've been a landlord for a long time. I treat people how I expect to be treated. Based on what I've read, you sound full of yourself and I wouldn't want to be your tenant or landlord.

-----------------------

1) Do you really think a simple carpet clean is going to eradicate cat dander? This is the first clue that you're irrational / illogical.

A prof cleaning still lifts more dander than a vacuum cleaner. The only relevant here is what my tenant and I agreed to in our pet agreement.

2) Your posts complaining about people "demanding" new carpet. Ironic considering this whole thread. The language posted said "request".

That was a tangent that this thread went on where california law empowered a tenant to demand a new carpet when 10 years age was reached. Those were my opinions and not part of the OP.

5) 1 month for a new stove? You were baiting everyone. If it worked partially and you were dealing with a repair person or something while actively working the situation, that's one thing ... if it really took 1 month for a stove, then you are a complete failure. Not everyone microwaves all their meals or eats at McDonalds bud.

yeah maybe you should have read more than 87% of the thread bc what I bolded is what happened. And it took less than a month, I was estimating since it was long ago. I estimated two weeks from start to finish, hardly an inappropriate landlord response to a non-emergency

6) I respond to calls or texts within hours, usually immediately. I have had a few incidents where I was on-site within 20 minutes after a call. If you want to protect the "investment", you need to be prepared to react. How would you handle a major water leak? ... NOW, GO.

I'm not above driving 200+ miles to fix a problem on a unit that is in a prime location with great potential. There is a lucrative reason why i didn't sell it when I moved. Plus I have family still in the area who i have worked out a deal with to respond for me in case I can't immediately drive down.

7) I'm sorry you're upside down and couldn't sell. Not being near the rental is your choice. I choose to be closer to my big 'investment', unless using a management company.

Upside down? I knew better than to take a floating rate mortgage. If you want to know, this property is profitable and I have about 50% equity in it. Also just refinanced from 30 to 15 year mortgage 3 months ago so I'm in it for the long run.

 

[Richard N]

Wait a minute. This is going to be a "high end rental" but it has old ass carpet with stains. Also, you tried to fix the stove yourself? I thought you were out of state land lord? You sound more like a micro managing control freak dick hole