Advice for helping to support family?

[Exterous]

This is probably a bad idea but I am looking for some advice. My MIL has been through some very tough financial times - raising several kids on her own after a physically abusive marriage with a deadbeat asshole that eventually forced her to declare bankruptcy. Over the years she's tried to make it up to her kids by spending more than she can afford on them. We try to help her out financially - we pay her cell phone bill, given her two of our old cars when we replaced them, paid her car insurance for many years etc. We even have an agreement with a local mechanic we know and trust (shes in a different state) that he calls us if the repair bill is high and we pay most of it while he charges her $50-100.

Yet as we look to buying another car sooner than we would like so we can give her our old one along with increasing our financial help we are being faced with a dilemma. We had hoped that the other kids would grow up and stop leeching off of her. We were wrong. Her son is 22, lives at home, got fired from Walmart for not showing up and drives one of the cars I gave my MIL while she got a junker for herself. Her other daughter is a 28 single mother who works 3-4 days a week, has a 2 year old daughter and constantly badgers her for gas and food money because she doesn't have enough then goes on a 4 day trip to Vegas because 'she deserves it' (She also told me that she likes her newer, fancier, higher mileage SUV she bought over my older, lower mileage car)

As much as I like giving money to my MIL to give to my sister in law so she can take vacations while my MIL takes out payday loans and draws from her 401(k) we just finished helping her get out of debt.

My wife has talked to her about it an she says she knows she shouldn't do it and will stop but she doesn't. I know she harbors a lot of guilt for their childhood and I think she does this to not feel like a failure as a parent. I also know her daughter uses her granddaughter up as a way to get more money.

My wife tried talking to her sister but all that got us was cut off from seeing\talking to her sister (a plus in my book) and her niece from age 2 months to 16 months old

So....what? We cut off the money and let her mom sink back into a financial blackhole? Let her sister screw up her daughter even more? There is some long term thinking involved in this as well because whatever we do now has the possibility of offsetting what we will need to do to care for her MIL when she is unable to work the long hours she works now. I thought about setting up a retirement account for her and we contribute to that instead of more money now but I don't know if what we can contribute will make a huge dent long term. Paying part of her rent just means dickhead gets to loaf around and princess gets to go to Vegas.

I dunno... Thoughts? Advice?

 

[jaedaliu]

Tough decision.

You want to help your MIL but also want the 2 kids to grow up. I think those may be mutually exclusive events as long as they live together. The kids need a swift kick in the ass to do something with their lives and make "real money." That's when they'll stop asking for these $20 hand outs because they'll be earning much more than that. Until then, they'll be leeches.

My father in law supported his mother, who lived with her adult kids in a big family home. After she passed her away, his siblings asked why the money stopped coming.

Can you have her move in with you but not the kids? I would be surprised if she agrees. She wants to help her kids, and kicking them out then moving away from them doesn't seem like something she would want to do.

 

[NoCreativity]

If she is already drawing from her 401K then she will just take the money out of any ira that you open for her unless you don't tell her about it.

Sort of tongue in check here but maybe stop giving her money/cars etc. and put that money towards savings for a house large enough for her to move in with you when she retires.

Bottom line is you can't keep sending her money becuase it will all go to the other kids and nothing will change until you stop.

 

[Malak]

What you are doing is great and if you are able, keep doing. The other details are out of your control. I know it is distressing but you will be rewarded for your kindness.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't see anything you can do. All money will be funneled to the kids. What I'd do is start tapering off on the support, and banking the money to give the MiL some time in the future when she *really* needs it. Maybe by that time the kids will grow up, move out, or something like that.

 

[Exterous]

You want to help your MIL but also want the 2 kids to grow up. I think those may be mutually exclusive events as long as they live together.

I agree - although it continued after he daughter moved out so I don't know if shed stop supporting her son if he moved out.

Can you have her move in with you but not the kids? I would be surprised if she agrees. She wants to help her kids, and kicking them out then moving away from them doesn't seem like something she would want to do.

My wife and I talked about that and we think it would be a good idea but I don't know if the MIL would go for it. She'd have to leave her job and shes lived in that area for 30+ years.

she will just take the money out of any ira that you open for her unless you don't tell her about it.

The plan was definitely not to tell her so I don't even know how that would work legally and tax wise.

Bottom line is you can't keep sending her money becuase it will all go to the other kids and nothing will change until you stop.

*sigh*

What you are doing is great and if you are able, keep doing. The other details are out of your control. I know it is distressing but you will be rewarded for your kindness.

I hope so

 

[Exterous]

I don't see anything you can do. All money will be funneled to the kids. What I'd do is start tapering off on the support, and banking the money to give the MiL some time in the future when she *really* needs it. Maybe by that time the kids will grow up, move out, or something like that.

I worry about what sort of trouble she'll get herself into in the meantime. It might be a good kind of tough love but - jesus - I'd feel like a bad husband discussing with my wife about cutting off her mom for the time being (although still saving for the future for her)

 

[lxskllr]

I worry about what sort of trouble she'll get herself into in the meantime. It might be a good kind of tough love but - jesus - I'd feel like a bad husband discussing with my wife about cutting off her mom for the time being (although still saving for the future for her)

You don't have to cut her off completely. Just tighten the screws a bit. Since you're in a different state, claim economic hardship. Your company isn't doing well, tree fell on the house, you need a new septic system... Nothing wrong with a little lie. That'll give you some breathing room, and your future economic fortunes can improve if necessary.

 

[jaedaliu]

A Roth IRA has very little tax implications um, ever? you put in post taxes, and when you withdraw, I guess you note it on the return that the income source is tax free. So she wouldn't need to know anything about the daily totals.

Assuming your contributions are allowed (not more than her roth cap when considering traditional 401k contributions) you could have her open it up, switch to online statements e-mailed to you, then contribute on her behalf. The roth will allow for tax advanaged withdrawls.

Otherwise, if you don't want to worry about that, have her sign some paperwork to open a savings account in her name, and just deposit money for her. As long as it's under ~$25kish/year for the gift allowance, you're fine.

Or, set aside something in you and your wife's name, and then give it to her over time when it's time appropriate as long as you aren't giving more than the tax free gift allowance annually. (this is probably the best option for her as she won't know, and you pay the income tax on the investment returns)

 

[Legios]

At some point your MIL might need long term care of a medical nature. Dont supplement an unfeasible lifestyle for her or the sponges that have attached to her by proxy. Yes save for when she will need it like mentioned above.

 

[Scarpozzi]

1. People who cannot manage money well are bad investments
2. Throwing quarters at the problem in bandaid fashion won't solve the larger issue of poor money management or a simple mismatch in lifestyle choices vs income.
3. Your money would be better spent in bailing her out 10 years down the road when she declares bankruptcy

I'm not saying that to be smart or mean. Some people never had to manage money and perhaps her asshole husband handled those things before the divorce. This may be the first time she's had to manage it on her own with less coming in than she may need to maintain the lifestyle she's accustomed to. Without disconnecting cable, turning off cellphones, cutting back on expenses....things will eventually blow up. Giving her small amounts of money will only provide disposable income to defer the inevitable.

 

[KeithP]

Don't be fooled into thinking the kids are the problem here, the problem is your MIL. If she was a meth head and spending all your money on drugs would you hesitate to cut her off?

The idea to have her come live with you seems to be the best compromise. At the same time you need to get legal control of her finances so she can't give away her money anymore. If she won't go for that, then tell her you are done.

-KeithP

 

[Exterous]

A Roth IRA has very little tax implications um, ever? you put in post taxes, and when you withdraw, I guess you note it on the return that the income source is tax free. So she wouldn't need to know anything about the daily totals.

Sorry - I meant the contribution cap. It would need to be opened in her name otherwise our contributions to the account would count towards our cap and withdrawl considerations\rules etc

3. Your money would be better spent in bailing her out (snip) when she declares bankruptcy

She's already done that and thats when we really increased our help.

Don't be fooled into thinking the kids are the problem here, the problem is your MIL.

I know shes the biggest part - their attitudes are at least somewhat reflective of her coddling but my wife escaped so at least some of it is on them

 

[Hugo L.]

Over the years she's tried to make it up to her kids by spending more than she can afford on them.
(...)
So....what? We cut off the money and let her mom sink back into a financial blackhole? Let her sister screw up her daughter even more?

Yes, let her sink. She hasn't learned. Once she keeps sinking, maybe she will. If she doesn't, then «helping» her is only making this farce last longer, and the only one who profits from your generosity is not your MIL, obviously.

In the process, make sure you cut the leech off from your relationships permanently.

 

[Exterous]

You don't have to cut her off completely. Just tighten the screws a bit. Since you're in a different state, claim economic hardship. Your company isn't doing well, tree fell on the house, you need a new septic system... Nothing wrong with a little lie. That'll give you some breathing room, and your future economic fortunes can improve if necessary.

Worth thinking about...

 

[kranky]

There's no good answer to a problem like this. When someone is providing "economic outpatient care" to someone else on your dime, it's going to be unpleasant no matter what.

What I would do is sit down with MIL and explain that while you are happy to help her out, you cannot continue to do so if she is undermining her own childrens ability to provide for themselves when they are fully capable of doing so, using the support you provided that was meant for her. And that while you are not trying to tell her how to manage her family, you won't provide aid to children who are not pulling their own weight.

Now I fully realize that's a position that probably will cause dissention in the family and I am not claiming that's the best solution. It's just what I would do. I won't even defend it because (a) MIL is not your relative, she's your wife's relative; and (b) for many people, family harmony outweighs almost everything else.

The reason these situations are so messy is because of the various perspectives the different participants have.
- You don't want her giving your money to deadbeat kids
- MIL won't think that your money should come with strings attached and/or will not connect your gifts to what she gives to the kids.
- The deadbeat kids will feel that if mom chooses to give them help, what is it to you?

It comes down to this: MIL is allowed to do whatever she wants with her own money, even if that means a continuing stream of poor choices. You can choose to keep the stream flowing, or not.

But I do not believe you can find a solution that encompasses continuing to help her out and at the same time she decides to deal with her kids the way you want her to.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Let her sink, when she goes broke, offer to let her stay in spare room, or offer to help her pay for cheap studio apartment. Tell her you do not wish to take part in enabling deadbeats. You wish your bro in law and sis in law would grow up and succeed in life, and they won't do that when they are given a free ride.

 

[NetWareHead]

I'm not going to repeat the message because so far, I agree with the responses you have received. It is painful but you need to look at this with the proper mindset and have some forward vision. What you are doing is enabling a weak individual. Your money is being squandered on her 2 idiot children. Remind yourself that every time you help her, a great percentage is going to deadbeat children. Remind yourself of your own sacrifices made to earn that money. I know my blood would boil if my money was being pissed away.

Eventually you will get so fed up that your support will stop. You need to reach that breaking point where her money train runs out of steam. You are just as bad as your MIL, knowing where the money is going but continuing to send aid.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Good example of "good guy always ends up getting screwed in the end".

I don't believe in helping people with money or paying for their stuff. In most cases it makes the problem bigger.

I would tapper off support and watch her make you into a devil creature......

At this point, you have your own family to worry about and support. Focus on that vs in laws. Keep in mind that every dollar you give her you take away from your financially stability/future (for example no college fund for kids/investments etc).

It's really kind for you to do so, but chances are you will get burned very soon and it can also start effecting your relationship with your wife in no time.

Also you are enabling and supporting her ways/children by giving her money (you are part of the problem too).

 

[exdeath]

Any sympathy went out the window when I found out there are no kids involved. 22 and 28 living with mom and can't keep a job? I was mislead the first few sentances about kids then saw 22 and 28 and about raged.

Its too late. "Kids" are long gone. Nothing MIL can do to bring them back and "redo". She needs to accept that and move on.

Let them fail. Time to grow up.

 

[Exterous]

THer other daughter is a 28 single mother who works 3-4 days a week, has a 2 year old daughter

I also know her daughter uses her granddaughter up as a way to get more money.

My wife tried talking to her sister but all that got us was cut off from seeing\talking to her sister (a plus in my book) and her niece from age 2 months to 16 months old

Any sympathy went out the window when I found out there are no kids involved

Not sure why you claim you were misled. One of the biggest strings to the whole thing is that the SIL dangles her daughter around to everyone. My wife didn't get to see her niece for over a year because of this and my MIL keeps spending money to buy her granddaughter things like summer pool passes and zoo passes while mom goes to Vegas and buys SUVs

 

[OCGuy]

Keep the help to the essentials if necessary. Gift cards that can only be used at Grocery Stores, gas cards, etc.

I can promise you that someone has a drug problem, either prescription or otherwise. Any determined person can still find a way to trade your gifts for cash, but at least you can make it difficult.

 

[nickbits]

Personally, I wouldn't give her any more money. People never fix their issues if they perceive there will always be a safety net. Best course of action is tough love.

You could also write into the Suze Orman show (not joking) and see if she has any advice.

 

[Exterous]

I won't even defend it because (a) MIL is not your relative, she's your wife's relative; and (b) for many people, family harmony outweighs almost everything else.

I always tread carefully when discussing this with my wife. The literal beatings they endured together has created a bond that I am leery to mess with too quickly. I haven't had to threaten to kill someone with a knife to keep my daughter safe or seen someone do that for me so I am not well placed to walk in her shoes.

Maybe I am just creating excuses to not rock the boat. I don't know - my thought process keeps going around in circles.

I'll gently test the waters Friday

It's really kind for you to do so, but chances are you will get burned very soon and it can also start effecting your relationship with your wife in no time.

Also you are enabling and supporting her ways/children by giving her money (you are part of the problem too).

I'm not sure lowering help won't affect our relationship but you're right - its a discussion that needs to be had - carefully

 

[OCGuy]

You will be the bad guy no matter when you restrict or cut-off the tap. The best thing you can do is do it sooner.

They will forget all the help you have given, and hate you instantly. Money fucks things up.