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Active Shooting in San Bernardino, California

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nixium said:
Liberal response contradiction:

White shooter: OMG OMG OMG gun laws restrictions NRA sucks etc etc
---> Understandable reaction, it's a horrible tragedy.

Islamic terrorism: Meh, America's fault, fast track refugees from ISIS land, etc.
----> Contradiction?! Shouldn't people from ISIS land go through more checks before being let in? Why no additional restrictions as demanded for case 1 above?


Same in reverse for you conservatives BTW, you guys want guns for everyone, and that includes Islamic extremists. Or are you guys proposing additional background checks on gun purchases by these guys?
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This was clearly an attack perpetrated by two Muslims yet we still have libs calling for gun control and nobody saying "America's fault." Want to try again and get "liberal's" actual stances on the subject correct before you start railing against us? Maybe if you understood why people say ISIS is America's fault you wouldn't be so confused. Maybe if you understood that the refugee process is already quite intensive you wouldn't be so susceptible to conservative propaganda calling for more intense scrutiny where none is needed. Maybe if you understood all these issues a little deeper than just sound bites you would see that it is increasingly unlikely that this incident is tied to ISIS and completely unrelated to the refugees.
 
HamburgerBoy said:
What are you talking about? The media immediately judges Muslim terrorists as religiously-inspired. It's only when someone shoots up a Planned Parenthood that they decide to "withhold until all the facts are in".
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What is funny is that conservatives all assume that he was a jihadi. White guy with stockpile = loon. Muslim with stockpile = jihadi. We don't know anything yet. Maybe this guy just went postal and happened to be Muslim.
 
Indus said:
The fact that he was driving the SUV while his wife was shooting at the police with a sophisticated high caliber assault rifle means she was not just another ordinary house wife. Most American women can operate a hand gun but not an assault rifle, let alone shoot from the back of a SUV while the husband driving
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Your ignorance is shining through. An AR-15 is as easy to fire as a handgun, it is in no way sophisticated nor difficult to load and/or fire. It's also not considered high caliber. I know quite a few ordinary females as young as 12 that can and do shoot AR-15s. Several of which have killed a deer with one.
 
Londo_Jowo said:
Your ignorance is shining through. An AR-15 is as easy to fire as a handgun, it is in no way sophisticated nor difficult to load and/or fire. It's also not considered high caliber. I know quite a few ordinary females as young as 12 that can and do shoot AR-15s. Several of which have killed a deer with one.
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I fired an SKS years ago, it wasn't very difficult to shoot & hit things with at a target range. I'd assume anyone who has any plans has visited a gun range.
 
dank69 said:
What is funny is that conservatives all assume that he was a jihadi. White guy with stockpile = loon. Muslim with stockpile = jihadi. We don't know anything yet. Maybe this guy just went postal and happened to be Muslim.
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...and making bombs was just a hobby. Got it.
 
Londo_Jowo said:
Your ignorance is shining through. An AR-15 is as easy to fire as a handgun, it is in no way sophisticated nor difficult to load and/or fire. It's also not considered high caliber. I know quite a few ordinary females as young as 12 that can and do shoot AR-15s. Several of which have killed a deer with one.
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I would say if anything it's easier to fire than a handgun - less felt recoil and much longer sight radius. I will say, though, that I would not want to be inside a car with an AR being fired without a shit-ton of hearing protection. 5.56mm is one loud round . . .
 
Londo_Jowo said:
Your ignorance is shining through. An AR-15 is as easy to fire as a handgun, it is in no way sophisticated nor difficult to load and/or fire. It's also not considered high caliber. I know quite a few ordinary females as young as 12 that can and do shoot AR-15s. Several of which have killed a deer with one.
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I've found the AR-15 to be much easier to fire than the AK-47. From what I hear, the latter is the preferred weapon of choice overseas with the less technologically advanced people is because the AK47 is very easy/cheap to make and maintain.
 
dank69 said:
What is funny is that conservatives all assume that he was a jihadi. White guy with stockpile = loon. Muslim with stockpile = jihadi. We don't know anything yet. Maybe this guy just went postal and happened to be Muslim.
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Maybe.

But we need to be honest here. Muslims are under increased scrutiny for a reason. That fact might be ugly, but it's not unfounded. The conflict of the last 14 years has largely been the West against Islamic terrorism, as kicked off by the 9/11 attacks.

Every American is innocent until proven guilty. But we are not bigots to raise our eyebrows when a killer's actions match a very familiar profile.
 
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Don Vito Corleone said:
I would say if anything it's easier to fire than a handgun - less felt recoil and much longer sight radius. I will say, though, that I would not want to be inside a car with an AR being fired without a shit-ton of hearing protection. 5.56mm is one loud round . . .
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Yes, I would say of all weapons I've fired rifles with 5.56 ammo have been the easiest. Handguns don't let you use your shoulder to absorb recoil and rifles that use larger ammo like 7.62... well they hurt after a little while.
 
Don Vito Corleone said:
I would say if anything it's easier to fire than a handgun - less felt recoil and much longer sight radius. I will say, though, that I would not want to be inside a car with an AR being fired without a shit-ton of hearing protection. 5.56mm is one loud round . . .
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No doubt, an AR-15 is loud at an open air firing range. No way would I want to be in a vehicle firing one or while one is being fired. I'm not sure double hearing protection would be sufficient.

DrunkenSano said:
I've found the AR-15 to be much easier to fire than the AK-47. From what I hear, the latter is the preferred weapon of choice overseas with the less technologically advanced people is because the AK47 is very easy/cheap to make and maintain.
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The AK-47 is a preferred weapon as it's hard to do something that makes one unusable and that includes dropping it in mud, even mud with some sand content. The AK-47 worked very well for the North Vietnamese in those conditions.
 
Atreus21 said:
Very sad for her. She shouldn't feel any responsibility for this. Zero.
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Maybe not, but her message communicates a commonality with us. That is important in not condemning the entire family as a nest of terrorists. It helps make her "one of us" instead of "one of them". The feeling or... notion... of unity and empathy is one that helps cross barriers and unite people.

We need more outcry from Muslims to help feel safe... that they aren't sympathizers or next in line with an AQ manual and weapons. It's their duty to speak for us against terror. In turn, it should be our duty to protect them from backlash.
 
Jaskalas said:
Maybe not, but her message communicates a commonality with us. That is important in not condemning the entire family as a nest of terrorists. It helps make her "one of us" instead of "one of them". The feeling or... notion... of unity and empathy is one that helps cross barriers and unite people.

We need more outcry from Muslims to help feel safe... that they aren't sympathizers or next in line with an AQ manual and weapons. It's their duty to speak for us against terror. In turn, it should be our duty to protect them from backlash.
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What really needs to happen is a reformation of Islam.
 
The Muslim community has definitely been stepping up to denounce these attacks as they should, but I believe they should take it further. Not just denounce it, but march and call out to all real Muslims to be extra vigilant of those that may be possible extremists. Keep an eye out for anyone they know in their community that has a recent behavior change, especially those that went back to the Middle East and returned, then become more distant and closed in.

The Muslims understand their own much better than we do since most non-Muslim Americans' understanding comes from TV these days and we all know that is not the best source for facts. Be loud, show that the real Muslims do not accept the extremists, that the extremists are not real Muslims but a bunch of murdering psychopaths. It will be harder to terrorists to infiltrate if they know their neighbors are actively keeping watch.

LegendKiller said:
What really needs to happen is a reformation of Islam.
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I wouldn't call it a reformation of Islam, I'm sure that 99% of Muslims do not believe in the archaic version of their religion, at least those in the US. They just need to be more vocal and upfront about it.
 
DrunkenSano said:
The Muslim community has definitely been stepping up to denounce these attacks as they should, but I believe they should take it further. Not just denounce it, but march and call out to all real Muslims to be extra vigilant of those that may be possible extremists. Keep an eye out for anyone they know in their community that has a recent behavior change, especially those that went back to the Middle East and returned, then become more distant and closed in.

The Muslims understand their own much better than we do since most non-Muslim Americans' understanding comes from TV these days and we all know that is not the best source for facts. Be loud, show that the real Muslims do not accept the extremists, that the extremists are not real Muslims but a bunch of murdering psychopaths. It will be harder to terrorists to infiltrate if they know their neighbors are actively keeping watch.



I wouldn't call it a reformation of Islam, I'm sure that 99% of Muslims do not believe in the archaic version of their religion, at least those in the US. They just need to be more vocal and upfront about it.
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Well, being "vocal" hasn't stopped these attacks. Perhaps they need to start turning whomever they find to be extremists over to authorities, if they haven't been doing so already.

Only then do we truly know if they "denounce" anything, but you can correct me if I am wrong about that.
 
Retro Rob said:
Well, being "vocal" hasn't stopped these attacks. Perhaps they need to start turning whomever they find to be extremists over to authorities, if they haven't been doing so already.

Only then do we truly know if they "denounce" anything, but you can correct me if I am wrong about that.
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One big problem: being an 'extremist' isn't a crime. That's thought police.
 
Retro Rob said:
Well, being "vocal" hasn't stopped these attacks. Perhaps they need to start turning whomever they find to be extremists over to authorities, if they haven't been doing so already.

Only then do we truly know if they "denounce" anything, but you can correct me if I am wrong about that.
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Sure, they can do that as soon as you Christians start turning over militant Christian preppers stockpiling guns and ammo. Sound good?
 
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