ABS, why have the option of turning them off?

[Q]

I know this is most likely a dumb question to ask, and/or I can find the answer on Google, but I like to read in plain english from AT Garage.

What is the reasoning behind the option of turning ABS off? Why would anyone want them disabled? Only reason I can think (well guess) of is in a track setting, disabling ABS somehow puts less strain on the brakes, or you can brake harder (with the punishment of locking up) with ABS off?

I understand stability control / TCS but not ABS. Thanks.

 

[Malak]

To be honest, I like the feel of braking a lot more without ABS.

 

[Vette73]

ABS and heavy snow do not mix.

 

[fleabag]

ABS only works best in slippery conditions like rain but on gravel, snow or even dry pavement, you can always get better braking without ABS than with it. ABS is to allow the driver to brake the vehicle while maintaining control of it so they can steer around the obstacle.

 

[exar333]

Most cars don't let you disable ABS. I don't really care about ABS except with very icy conditions, it has helped me prevent a few rear-end fender benders in the past. Believe me, when you drive on what is essentially pure ice in the winter, it realls helps to prevent the wheels locking-up.

 

[Vette73]

ABS only works best in slippery conditions like rain but on gravel, snow or even dry pavement, you can always get better braking without ABS than with it. ABS is to allow the driver to brake the vehicle while maintaining control of it so they can steer around the obstacle.

Another fail replay from Fleabag.

 

[randay]

Another fail replay from Fleabag.

the stuff that comes out of him is really hilarious.

 

[brblx]

Most cars don't let you disable ABS.

this. traction/stability can be turned off, i've never seen a switch for ABS. the only way to turn it off is to have the system generate a diagnostic code that turns on the ABS light.

 

[zerocool84]

ABS only works best in slippery conditions like rain but on gravel, snow or even dry pavement, you can always get better braking without ABS than with it. ABS is to allow the driver to brake the vehicle while maintaining control of it so they can steer around the obstacle.

You can cleary tell you have ZERO experience with vehicles.


ABS helps you stop in ALL conditions. Bad weather, panic stops, everything. I don't know anyone who will ever manually pump the brakes when in a panic situation. ABS is great and it's helped me stay out of trouble many times.

 

[LTC8K6]

ABS works well most of the time. Slick or black ice being the major exception, but not much works on slick ice anyway.

I've never seen a switch to turn off the ABS.

I suppose you could pull a fuse or disconnect it.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

ABS only works best in slippery conditions like rain but on gravel, snow or even dry pavement, you can always get better braking without ABS than with it. ABS is to allow the driver to brake the vehicle while maintaining control of it so they can steer around the obstacle.

Pray tell me then why the Porsche 911 Turbo in my neighborhood (not mine) has nondefeatable ABS.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

ABS only works best in slippery conditions like rain but on gravel, snow or even dry pavement, you can always get better braking without ABS than with it. ABS is to allow the driver to brake the vehicle while maintaining control of it so they can steer around the obstacle.

Another fail replay from Fleabag.

the stuff that comes out of him is really hilarious.

Whilst the comment about ABS and dry pavement may be debatable - Good ABS should match a good driver in the dry and prevents you snatching a wheel in a panic situation. Hell good ABS should have a feature analogous to "emergency brake assist" (EBA) which basically knows you want an emergency stop and boosts the brakes to reduce stopping distance.

He is partially correct about normal braking being superior in gravel and snow, as it lets you lock the wheels. Granted you won't have control of the vehicle, but you will stop more rapidly if you just slam on the anchors and lock the wheels. This is because you will pile up the gravel/snow in front of the tyres essentially creating a bow wave which will dissipate more energy than normal braking (due to the reduced traction available).

So if you need to stop in a straight line on gravel/snow non-ABS is grand, the problem is if you need to manoeuvre you are screwed...

 

[exdeath]

ABS has worse stopping distance than locked up regular brakes on loose surfaces like dirt and gravel.

I've never seen a system where you can disable it. Perhaps you are thinking about an option to disable airbags for child passengers?

 

[fleabag]

ABS and heavy snow do not mix.

ABS only works best in slippery conditions like rain but on gravel, snow or even dry pavement, you can always get better braking without ABS than with it. ABS is to allow the driver to brake the vehicle while maintaining control of it so they can steer around the obstacle.

Another fail replay from Fleabag.

Irony?

You can cleary tell you have ZERO experience with vehicles.


ABS helps you stop in ALL conditions. Bad weather, panic stops, everything. I don't know anyone who will ever manually pump the brakes when in a panic situation. ABS is great and it's helped me stay out of trouble many times.

CLEARLY.....NOT. Some people actually are capable of controlling their vehicle ABS and stability control or not. You don't necessarily have to lock up your wheels in order to brake, it is possible to use the brakes up to the threshold between locking up and not locking up, leading to a better braking distance. For those who don't know any better, ABS is better for them, unfortunately because people don't know how ABS is suppose to function, they let up on the brake pedal soon as they feel the pulses from the ABS system. Also, like others have mentioned, on snow and gravel, locking up the wheels is better because the snow/gravel piles up in front of the wheel, something that ABS won't let you do.

I'm not saying they should get rid of ABS, I'm just saying that there should be an option to disable it somewhere besides removing a fuse..

 

[EightySix Four]

Pray tell me then why the Porsche 911 Turbo in my neighborhood (not mine) has nondefeatable ABS.

Probably because it's a porsche and is hopefully not going to see any off-road duty.

Actually, ABS was designed to help maintain control of the vehicle under heavy braking and to decrease stopping distances under most normal situations (with average drivers). On very loose gravel and on dirt though, a car has a better chance of stopping if the driver can lock the brakes after a certain point to build up a layer of dirt/gravel in front of the tires.

That's why the F-150 Raptor has a special mode for the ABS when on dirt, after the car slows down to a certain point, it allows the tires to lock, significantly decreasing stopping distance.

 

[DeviousTrap]

Irony?



CLEARLY.....NOT. Some people actually are capable of controlling their vehicle ABS and stability control or not. You don't necessarily have to lock up your wheels in order to brake, it is possible to use the brakes up to the threshold between locking up and not locking up, leading to a better braking distance. For those who don't know any better, ABS is better for them, unfortunately because people don't know how ABS is suppose to function, they let up on the brake pedal soon as they feel the pulses from the ABS system. Also, like others have mentioned, on snow and gravel, locking up the wheels is better because the snow/gravel piles up in front of the wheel, something that ABS won't let you do.

I'm not saying they should get rid of ABS, I'm just saying that there should be an option to disable it somewhere besides removing a fuse..

ABS will not stop you from threshold breaking. The whole point of ABS is to intervene and stop you from locking up the wheels. If you're not pushing the pedal hard enough to lock the brakes then ABS won't be doing anything.

 

[exdeath]

Some people actually are capable of controlling their vehicle ABS and stability control or not. You don't necessarily have to lock up your wheels in order to brake, it is possible to use the brakes up to the threshold between locking up and not locking up, leading to a better braking distance.

A video of you pumping your brake pedal 150 times per second and proving you can beat a computer and electric pump in conditions where ABS is known to be superior is in order here.

Also, locking up conventional brakes on loose surfaces has less to do with piling things in front of the tire and more to do with digging into the solid non moving surface underneath, since tires need friction in order to do anything. A few lbs of lubricated snow or gravel in front of the tires of a 3000 lb vehicle is just going to be pushed and slide with the rest of the car, it won't have any appreciable effect on braking distance. If you've ever seen skid marks in gravel or snow or mud, you'd see that firm solid dirt is exposed moments before the end of the skid.

 

[EightySix Four]

A video of you pumping your brake pedal 150 times per second and proving you can beat a computer and electric pump is in order here.

Also, locking up conventional brakes on loose surfaces has less to do with piling things in front of the tire and more to do with digging into the solid non moving surface underneath, since tires need friction in order to do anything.

Hmm, from the Ford press release on the Raptor:

Off-Road Mode also changes ABS thresholds allowing the ABS system to work in a less-aggressive manner. This allows for sand and dirt to build up under the tires and reduce stopping distances off-road.

Pretty sure they know how it works a bit better.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

non-ABS is better under certain conditions...however, 99% are all other conditions.

For non-ABS to be better you need both a loose road surface as well as a driver that can handle it. A vast majority of people are better off with ABS all the time.

 

[LTC8K6]

If you can threshold brake as good as the ABS, then the ABS will never come on...

 

[exdeath]

Hmm, from the Ford press release on the Raptor:


Pretty sure they know how it works a bit better.

I'm 100% sure the engineers know how it works, but obviously not the laymen writing press releases with your example.

They worded it wrong; the goal of allowing wheel locking is to plow and cut through and *disperse* the lubricant (gravel, etc) from under the tire, not to pile more of it under the tire... How does more sand and gravel under the tire and thus lubricating it and causing you to hydroplane help you stop faster? You don't need to be an engineer or officially work for a cooperation to realize that even that press release has it backwards.

Coincidentally the reason non ABS brakes perform better on loose surfaces than ABS is also the same physics that results in narrow tires performing better and being safer on ice and snow (cutting through and dispersing the lubricant to contact solid surface underneath).

 

[fleabag]

Pretty sure the engineers know how it works, but obviously not the laymen writing press releases with your example.

They worded it wrong; the goal of allowing wheel locking is to plow through and disperse the lubricant (gravel, etc) from under the tire, not to pile more of it *under* the tire... How does more gravel under the tire help you stop faster? You don't need to be an engineer or officially work for a cooperation to realize that's backwards.

You're not piling more under the tire, you're piling more IN FRONT OF THE TIRE.

 

[brblx]

If you can threshold brake as good as the ABS, then the ABS will never come on...

this.

the only place where non-ABS would be better is the racetrack, where any loss of traction is generally going to hurt lap times. and if you simply don't lock the brakes, it will be just like it isn't there- but you'll still have it as a failsafe.

i would not want to be around 99% of drivers on the road on a loose surface without ABS. assuming that car will go perfectly straight ahead while skidding is silly, and most people aren't going to be able to cope with that.

 

[exdeath]

You're not piling more under the tire, you're piling more IN FRONT OF THE TIRE.

Material piling in front of the tire is known as plowing, and is simply the result of material being dispersed and displaced from UNDER the tire where you DON'T want it.

A few handfuls of sliding snow in front of the tires is not sufficient to stop a moving car. However that snow being plowed up in front of the tire or anywhere but under it, and the contact patch of the tire being exposed to bare asphalt, is what will stop the car.

Imagine a scenario where you have some snow in front of your tires, but your car is still skidding on a layer of ice... how effective is that snow in stopping the car?

Could you make the case that driving through a 2 foot deep pit of gravel will slow the car down and disperse the energy? Sure. But in practical driving we are talking an inch or less of lubricant above a solid surface, and what piles in front of the tire in an inch of snow, ice, or gravel is insignificant and not a factor in stopping the car. What ends up in *front* of the tire is merely what was displaced from *under* the tire, the most important consideration.

The functional component of a tire is friction. Tires by design tend to effortlessly roll over small piles of things simply placed in front of them...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Same reason they have the option to disable traction control...so that people who think they know how to drive can crash their cars.