Abortion puzzles me

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: MathMan

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

Put perfectly.

So said the Nazi guards to curious neighbors of their concentration camps...

It's useless to debate this subject, some people are just so ridiculously pro-life that we'll be going in circles until page 20.

That's why I agree with Jules, short and sweet: The child is the mothers burden to bare, it's up to her and whomever else she seeks consultation with on whether to end it's development cycle early, or bring it into a world where it might not be able to have enough support for whatever finacial or parental reason.

Keep it in the family and shut up about it.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Perhaps opening myself to a bunch of flames, but my thought is this. If people want to do something with their bodies then who in the flaming fsck are we to stop them. Their body, their choice between life and death.

And yea I know someone will flame me for that but who am I to tell someone else what to do with their body. In medicine we say a patient always has a choice between going through with a procedure or refusing it, so why do we stop them from making one choice? And please dont answer that it's meant as a rhetorical question.

Two cents.

Okay fine...if they get to choose, then the baby must be aborted by stabbing the mother in the head and sucking out her brains.

How selfish! Oh I want MY life and MY life is important but the life of my child isn't as important as mine!!!

.........um ok

Their choice they live with the consequences of their actions just as much as you do with your life, and I with mine

 

[zanieladie]

I'm against abortion. PERIOD.

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: MathMan

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

Put perfectly.

So said the Nazi guards to curious neighbors of their concentration camps...

The problem is, that involves activities upon other humans, which is obviously not his point. "Worrying about oneself" implicitly includes not affecting others.

 

[JEDIYoda]

good thing my lawn chair folds down into a sleeper bed....
good thing my keg machine still works....this way I won`t need to leave the chair for along while

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: chambersc
without looking it up, i'm gonna wing this:

"whenever the first comparison to hitler or the nazis is mentioned on a forums or in a conversation, the thread is autmoatically over and that person is an instant loser?"

did i get it right -- there abouts? what did i win!

Not quite. But indeed close. Look it up on Wikipedia, then click the link at the bottom for the Wilcox-McCandlish law, it sums up the internet as we know it.

 

[altonb1]

Originally posted by: bigdog1218

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

So how's your Anti-SUV brigade doing? Staying out of peoples business? Hypocrites aren't really worth much in any conversation.

Arkitech, totally agree with you, people today choose not to take responsibility for their actions and find it easier to pass them on to someone else. Someone who supports abortion is just saying they they shouldn't be responsible for the choices they make in life. They made bad choices that they led them into a situation, and then use the 1st amendment as an excuse so they can get rid of their problem.

Then, like amicold and SLCentral, they call it a fetus or an embryo because it makes them feel better that their killing nothing, rather than a human being. They come up with absurd reasons to try to justify that they support killing humans. It's a little weird that a baby born at 9 months wasn't a human at 7 months, but a baby born at 7 months is a human. Then they spit out reasons of umbilical cords, sentient life, the babys location, clawing for anything so they can get rid of that responsiblity that they're too scared, or not ready to have.

Then, they cry that even birth control methods don't always work because that's easier then saying, I made the choice to have sex and I'll deal with the responsiblities because of that choice. Instead of actually having reasons fo an abortion, it's just a bunch of excuses so they can live their selfish, irresponsible lives without having the guilt of killing a human.

Well said. If I claim to be pro-choice, then what am I labeled? The fact is, we all have a "choice" but if we claim to choose life we are told that we are not really choosing? The argument is not really "pro-choice vs pro-life." It is pro-abortion vs pro-life.

-- Proud dad of 5 kids!

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: altonb1

Originally posted by: bigdog1218

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

So how's your Anti-SUV brigade doing? Staying out of peoples business? Hypocrites aren't really worth much in any conversation.

Arkitech, totally agree with you, people today choose not to take responsibility for their actions and find it easier to pass them on to someone else. Someone who supports abortion is just saying they they shouldn't be responsible for the choices they make in life. They made bad choices that they led them into a situation, and then use the 1st amendment as an excuse so they can get rid of their problem.

Then, like amicold and SLCentral, they call it a fetus or an embryo because it makes them feel better that their killing nothing, rather than a human being. They come up with absurd reasons to try to justify that they support killing humans. It's a little weird that a baby born at 9 months wasn't a human at 7 months, but a baby born at 7 months is a human. Then they spit out reasons of umbilical cords, sentient life, the babys location, clawing for anything so they can get rid of that responsiblity that they're too scared, or not ready to have.

Then, they cry that even birth control methods don't always work because that's easier then saying, I made the choice to have sex and I'll deal with the responsiblities because of that choice. Instead of actually having reasons fo an abortion, it's just a bunch of excuses so they can live their selfish, irresponsible lives without having the guilt of killing a human.

Well said. If I claim to be pro-choice, then what am I labeled? The fact is, we all have a "choice" but if we claim to choose life we are told that we are not really choosing? The argument is not really "pro-choice vs pro-life." It is pro-abortion vs pro-life.

-- Proud dad of 5 kids!

:beer: to both of you

 

[SLCentral]

Yawn, I'm done.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: OdiN
Abortion = Muder

Plain and simple. As said, there are only a few cases in which I can understand why - a pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother, etc.

Think of it this way. A mother who is say 2 months pregnant is mugged and stabbed, which causes her unborn child to die. Would you want the mugger charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or murder?

actually, in california (ironically), a guy was convicted of murder of both his wife and unborn child.

can't remember the case, it was a real big (national) one that hit the news a lot.

wow that's fvcking ironic

 

[cheapgoose]

There is no reason for anyone to take more than 3 months to decide if they want to keep a baby or not. once you pass a deadline, and you don't want it, keep it and give it up for adoption.

I'll leave the arguement of when a sperm and egg becomes a living being to you guys, I will continue to have no problem with people who abort "very early" in their pregnancy, for what ever reason they want.

If you want to ban abortion, I will vote against it, if you want to put certain restrictions on when you can still abort, I will certainly entertain the thought.

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: altonb1

Originally posted by: bigdog1218

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

So how's your Anti-SUV brigade doing? Staying out of peoples business? Hypocrites aren't really worth much in any conversation.

Arkitech, totally agree with you, people today choose not to take responsibility for their actions and find it easier to pass them on to someone else. Someone who supports abortion is just saying they they shouldn't be responsible for the choices they make in life. They made bad choices that they led them into a situation, and then use the 1st amendment as an excuse so they can get rid of their problem.

Then, like amicold and SLCentral, they call it a fetus or an embryo because it makes them feel better that their killing nothing, rather than a human being. They come up with absurd reasons to try to justify that they support killing humans. It's a little weird that a baby born at 9 months wasn't a human at 7 months, but a baby born at 7 months is a human. Then they spit out reasons of umbilical cords, sentient life, the babys location, clawing for anything so they can get rid of that responsiblity that they're too scared, or not ready to have.

Then, they cry that even birth control methods don't always work because that's easier then saying, I made the choice to have sex and I'll deal with the responsiblities because of that choice. Instead of actually having reasons fo an abortion, it's just a bunch of excuses so they can live their selfish, irresponsible lives without having the guilt of killing a human.

Well said. If I claim to be pro-choice, then what am I labeled? The fact is, we all have a "choice" but if we claim to choose life we are told that we are not really choosing? The argument is not really "pro-choice vs pro-life." It is pro-abortion vs pro-life.

-- Proud dad of 5 kids!

No, it's pro-choice. Pro-abortion would indicate support for abortion instead of birth. The term pro-life is more misleading, as pro-life is not the antithesis of being pro-choice, pro-choice including the option for life.

If you really want to argue these sorts of semantics, a better duality would be pro-choice vs. anti-choice/anti-abortion.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: creedog

Originally posted by: Arkitech
My wife is 7 months along in her pregnacy and it's so amazing to me to see how new life is developing and growing. Even though the baby is still forming he responds to my voice and my wife's, it's an incredible experience.

Now I realize not every child has the benefit of being born to a pair of loving parents, in some cases babies are born to totally unfit and possibly unstable people. Then there are the cases where some unfortunate women have become the victim of rape and I can totally sympathize with why they feel the need to go for an abortion. But for the most part it seems to me that many people choose abortion because they don't want the responsibility. It's really sad, in fact it's downright heartbreaking because every abortion is taking away the life from a helpless child. Everyone gets up in arms when they hear of child porn, child abuse, molestation and any other atrocity (sp?) commited against kids but why does'nt that type of feeling extend to unborn babies. After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

I don't want this to degenerate into a flamefest I just felt like stating something I feel strongly about and hopefully sparking some intelligent discussion.

Its too bad that not everyone could feel the same way that you do, as then there probably would not be so many people who carelessly get pregant. However, I support the right to choose and I have to tell you that a hell of a lot of people have no business having children, as a matter of fact I wish that there were more abortions to keep these children from growing up and pertetuating the cycle.

Most of my married friends are now getting to the point that they are having children and my wife and I hope to have one before too long, and I tell you its awesome to see one of my best friends of almost 15 years become a great daddy.

Now I will tell you what it sad, The first few posts in this thread. Its sad to see what this forum has become. A bunch of witty one line responses to anything that might provoke an ounce of thought. Oh, and then you have the zealots who like to argue with each other, like it really matters. Oh, well....

Anyway, congrats to you but keep in mind that you are probably in the top 10% of the most educated, well off, and prosperous people in the world. The rest of the world is light years behind america, and middle america is lightyears behind the rest of us.

Now I will tell you

:thumbsdown: to elitism.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: altonb1
Well said. If I claim to be pro-choice, then what am I labeled? The fact is, we all have a "choice" but if we claim to choose life we are told that we are not really choosing? The argument is not really "pro-choice vs pro-life." It is pro-abortion vs pro-life.

-- Proud dad of 5 kids!

What about that college student working full-time to support herself alone who didn't make the choice of being raped and getting pregnant because of it?

What about that 12yr old girl who didn't choose to be molested by her Dad for years and then one day became pregnant because of it?

What about that mother of 5 already who didn't choose to have her drunken husband come home one day from the bar and decide to take advantage of his wife laying in bed because his dick was hard.

The day you pro-lifers realize the fact that there are situations where the mother HAS NO SAY IN BECOMING PREGNANT is the day I'll actually listen to your agenda-pushing statements. Until then, STFU and mind your own familys business.

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: chambersc
without looking it up, i'm gonna wing this:

"whenever the first comparison to hitler or the nazis is mentioned on a forums or in a conversation, the thread is autmoatically over and that person is an instant loser?"

did i get it right -- there abouts? what did i win!

Not quite. But indeed close. Look it up on Wikipedia, then click the link at the bottom for the Wilcox-McCandlish law, it sums up the internet as we know it.

yeah, i did after i posted. the longer a thread gets, the more the likelyhood that the hitler/nazi reference will reach 1. nice. im reading his article on wired.com now.

 

[cheapgoose]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: OdiN
Abortion = Muder

Plain and simple. As said, there are only a few cases in which I can understand why - a pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother, etc.

Think of it this way. A mother who is say 2 months pregnant is mugged and stabbed, which causes her unborn child to die. Would you want the mugger charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or murder?

actually, in california (ironically), a guy was convicted of murder of both his wife and unborn child.

can't remember the case, it was a real big (national) one that hit the news a lot.

wow that's fvcking ironic

actually, they argued that the baby was out when the mother was killed. Maybe I'm mistaking that with an episode of law and order, but I'm pretty sure they did not find lacy's body with the baby still inside her.

please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Beige]

Ultimate birth control for people that are not ready to be parents = no sex
As for rape fictims, I do feel sorry but I still do not support abortion.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: SLCentral

In the first 4 (or whatever many of months it is legal to get an abortion until) the embryo is completely reliant on the physical body of the mother. Nor does it react, respond, talk, etc., so it is not comparable to a 2 year old toddler.

Nine. NINE is the number you're looking for. Granted, it varies a bit from state-to-state, and I'm not 100% up-to-date on my laws.

I think three months would be a good compromise for abortion IMHO, but of course there IS no compromise in this debate. Only lies and insults.

I've got a great idea. (1)Abort all the rabid pro-choice people, (2)Abort all the rabid pro-life people, and (3)Have a SOMEWHAT rational and fact-based discussion about it, using that to set the governing laws.

Doing that makes you as bad as the pro-baby killing crowd

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: cheapgoose

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: OdiN
Abortion = Muder

Plain and simple. As said, there are only a few cases in which I can understand why - a pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother, etc.

Think of it this way. A mother who is say 2 months pregnant is mugged and stabbed, which causes her unborn child to die. Would you want the mugger charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or murder?

actually, in california (ironically), a guy was convicted of murder of both his wife and unborn child.

can't remember the case, it was a real big (national) one that hit the news a lot.

wow that's fvcking ironic

actually, they argued that the baby was out when the mother was killed. Maybe I'm mistaking that with an episode of law and order, but I'm pretty sure they did not find lacy's body with the baby still inside her.

please correct me if i'm wrong.

I think you're mistaking that for the episode of law and order.

It is true that they found Laci Peterson's baby Connor seperately from Laci... the theory being that the baby was expelled from her body after the murder.

But that fact wasn't really relevant to Scott Peterson being charged with two counts of murder instead of just one...

 

[altonb1]

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: altonb1

Originally posted by: bigdog1218

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
<snip>

Well said. If I claim to be pro-choice, then what am I labeled? The fact is, we all have a "choice" but if we claim to choose life we are told that we are not really choosing? The argument is not really "pro-choice vs pro-life." It is pro-abortion vs pro-life.

-- Proud dad of 5 kids!

No, it's pro-choice. Pro-abortion would indicate support for abortion instead of birth. The term pro-life is more misleading, as pro-life is not the antithesis of being pro-choice, pro-choice including the option for life.

If you really want to argue these sorts of semantics, a better duality would be pro-choice vs. anti-choice/anti-abortion.

No...the "pro-choice" groups such as Planned Parenthood are all about referring women to abortion clinics. That IS pro-abortion. Also, if you are truly for "choice," then why are there so many attempts to make it legal for a school nurse to shuttle a minor over sate lines for an abortion without parental consent? If we are rally looking at "choice" thn we should try to provide a woman with as much info as possible, not keep her from her family and her support groups. How many pople really know what a late-term/partial-birth abortion actually is? It is a term thrown around to cover-up the truth of what actually happens.

 

[cheapgoose]

Originally posted by: MathMan

Originally posted by: cheapgoose

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: OdiN
Abortion = Muder

Plain and simple. As said, there are only a few cases in which I can understand why - a pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother, etc.

Think of it this way. A mother who is say 2 months pregnant is mugged and stabbed, which causes her unborn child to die. Would you want the mugger charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or murder?

actually, in california (ironically), a guy was convicted of murder of both his wife and unborn child.

can't remember the case, it was a real big (national) one that hit the news a lot.

wow that's fvcking ironic

actually, they argued that the baby was out when the mother was killed. Maybe I'm mistaking that with an episode of law and order, but I'm pretty sure they did not find lacy's body with the baby still inside her.

please correct me if i'm wrong.

I think you're mistaking that for the episode of law and order.

It is true that they found Laci Peterson's baby Connor seperately from Laci... the theory being that the baby was expelled from her body after the murder.

But that fact wasn't really relevant to Scott Peterson being charged with two counts of murder instead of just one...

Thanks.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: joedrake
Sure, I can symphasize with people who were raped, but that doesn't give the person the right to end/prevent another's life.

So why did you support the murder of the teen who walked on the old guy's lawn?

You disgust me.

No kidding. Our government kills people every day. For a group that holds life in such high regard they sure don't seem to have any problem taking it. Collateral damage? Oh, we feel badly about it so it's okay.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: altonb1

Originally posted by: bigdog1218

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

So how's your Anti-SUV brigade doing? Staying out of peoples business? Hypocrites aren't really worth much in any conversation.

Arkitech, totally agree with you, people today choose not to take responsibility for their actions and find it easier to pass them on to someone else. Someone who supports abortion is just saying they they shouldn't be responsible for the choices they make in life. They made bad choices that they led them into a situation, and then use the 1st amendment as an excuse so they can get rid of their problem.

Then, like amicold and SLCentral, they call it a fetus or an embryo because it makes them feel better that their killing nothing, rather than a human being. They come up with absurd reasons to try to justify that they support killing humans. It's a little weird that a baby born at 9 months wasn't a human at 7 months, but a baby born at 7 months is a human. Then they spit out reasons of umbilical cords, sentient life, the babys location, clawing for anything so they can get rid of that responsiblity that they're too scared, or not ready to have.

Then, they cry that even birth control methods don't always work because that's easier then saying, I made the choice to have sex and I'll deal with the responsiblities because of that choice. Instead of actually having reasons fo an abortion, it's just a bunch of excuses so they can live their selfish, irresponsible lives without having the guilt of killing a human.

Well said. If I claim to be pro-choice, then what am I labeled? The fact is, we all have a "choice" but if we claim to choose life we are told that we are not really choosing? The argument is not really "pro-choice vs pro-life." It is pro-abortion vs pro-life.

-- Proud dad of 5 kids!

No, it's pro-choice. Pro-abortion would indicate support for abortion instead of birth. The term pro-life is more misleading, as pro-life is not the antithesis of being pro-choice, pro-choice including the option for life.

If you really want to argue these sorts of semantics, a better duality would be pro-choice vs. anti-choice/anti-abortion.

What about the "choice" the girl made to receive sperm into her vagina?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: altonb1
Well said. If I claim to be pro-choice, then what am I labeled? The fact is, we all have a "choice" but if we claim to choose life we are told that we are not really choosing? The argument is not really "pro-choice vs pro-life." It is pro-abortion vs pro-life.

-- Proud dad of 5 kids!

What about that college student working full-time to support herself alone who didn't make the choice of being raped and getting pregnant because of it?

What about that 12yr old girl who didn't choose to be molested by her Dad for years and then one day became pregnant because of it?

What about that mother of 5 already who didn't choose to have her drunken husband come home one day from the bar and decide to take advantage of his wife laying in bed because his dick was hard.

The day you pro-lifers realize the fact that there are situations where the mother HAS NO SAY IN BECOMING PREGNANT is the day I'll actually listen to your agenda-pushing statements. Until then, STFU and mind your own familys business.

wow that's like 1% of abortions. most pro-lifers won't argue with you there.

 

[eakers]

I always find it humourous to see a bunch of men arguing about women's rights.

In any case, its never something I would do but its not a right I would want taken away from another woman.