Abortion puzzles me

[TBone48]

Originally posted by: datalink7
All I can say is poor dead horse

I don't know, this one seems to have 9 lives

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: eakers
I always find it humourous to see a bunch of men arguing about women's rights.

In any case, its never something I would do but its not a right I would want taken away from another woman.

Explain to me how killing a baby that's 8 months 29 days a "right"? What's the difference between killing an unborn 8 month 29 day baby and a born 1 day old baby (9 months 31 days)?

No need to ask the board for the basis of the right. Just read Roe v Wade and Planned Parenthood v Casey, it's all there.

i've read roe v wade, it's about privacy which makes no fvcking sense. there is a clear difference between killing a baby because you don't want him and killing him because having him threatens your health. you can't lump the 2 together.

Read Planned Parenthood v. Casey. It reinforces constitutional support for abortion by stating that it's not only privacy, but also liberty in general that makes it legal.

Until the constitution is amended to make an unborn embryo a citizen, there can be no practical argument against abortion that could actually result in change.

The only other route would be to fill the court with politically biased justices to overturn this precedent and sh!t all over stare decisis, which would be an incredible abuse of the judicial branch's power and a failure of the checks and balances system this country is built on.

I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

 

[KarenMarie]

Holy Cow! this thread sure took off since I left.

A few things occur to me.

If a woman gets pregnant and waits until she is about 8 1/2 months pregnant and just decides to change her mind and 'abort' the baby, that is supposed to be perfectly fine. And if, driving to the abortion clinic, her car gets hit by a drunk driver and the baby dies, he will get charged with either vehicular homicide or murder.

If a woman decides that she is gonna tell a guy that she is on birth control when she is not, just to get pregnant, he has no say what so ever that he will be a father. he has between 18 and 21yrs of child support to look forward to. And if, after altering his life to expect and actually WANT the baby, she decides to 'terminate' the pregnancy in the 8th month, there is nothing he can say or do about that either.

A woman's body is hers to do whatever she wants with. Get pregnant, not get pregnant. Abort at 3 months, abort at 8 months 3 weeks and 6 days...whatever she wants. No one else has any rights... not the father, not the baby.

And if a 13yr old girl decides that she wants to screw around, the state and the school as well as planned parenthood will be fully supportive of her decision and help her keep it from her parents. And if she happens to get pregnant... the state and planned parenthood will again help her keep it from her family when she decides to 'terminate'.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: datalink7
All I can say is poor dead horse

I don't know, this one seems to have 9 lives

Once the flame gets big enough, the mods will lock.

this should have been posted in P&N where we've actually had a few civil discussions about it.

 

[TBone48]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Holy Cow! this thread sure took off since I left.

A few things occur to me.

If a woman gets pregnant and waits until she is about 8 1/2 months pregnant and just decides to change her mind and 'abort' the baby, that is supposed to be perfectly fine. And if, driving to the abortion clinic, her car gets hit by a drunk driver and the baby dies, he will get charged with either vehicular homicide or murder.

If a woman decides that she is gonna tell a guy that she is on birth control when she is not, just to get pregnant, he has no say what so ever that he will be a father. he has between 18 and 21yrs of child support to look forward to. And if, after altering his life to expect and actually WANT the baby, she decides to 'terminate' the pregnancy in the 8th month, there is nothing he can say or do about that either.

A woman's body is hers to do whatever she wants with. Get pregnant, not get pregnant. Abort at 3 months, abort at 8 months 3 weeks and 6 days...whatever she wants. No one else has any rights... not the father, not the baby.

And if a 13yr old girl decides that she wants to screw around, the state and the school as well as planned parenthood will be fully supportive of her decision and help her keep it from her parents. And if she happens to get pregnant... the state and planned parenthood will again help her keep it from her family when she decides to 'terminate'.

Nice job telling us how it is.

Now you should tell us how it ought to be without the sarcasm. And maybe some reasons why.

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: eakers
I always find it humourous to see a bunch of men arguing about women's rights.

In any case, its never something I would do but its not a right I would want taken away from another woman.

Explain to me how killing a baby that's 8 months 29 days a "right"? What's the difference between killing an unborn 8 month 29 day baby and a born 1 day old baby (9 months 31 days)?

No need to ask the board for the basis of the right. Just read Roe v Wade and Planned Parenthood v Casey, it's all there.

i've read roe v wade, it's about privacy which makes no fvcking sense. there is a clear difference between killing a baby because you don't want him and killing him because having him threatens your health. you can't lump the 2 together.

Read Planned Parenthood v. Casey. It reinforces constitutional support for abortion by stating that it's not only privacy, but also liberty in general that makes it legal.

Until the constitution is amended to make an unborn embryo a citizen, there can be no practical argument against abortion that could actually result in change.

The only other route would be to fill the court with politically biased justices to overturn this precedent and sh!t all over stare decisis, which would be an incredible abuse of the judicial branch's power and a failure of the checks and balances system this country is built on.

I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

No, that's because a "baby" has been born.

If all you have left is to argue semantics and the difference between an embryo and a fetus, then replace "embryo" with "embryo/fetus" in all my posts. It's still a non-sentient being that can aborted under US law.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

Or, we could have all the evangalists in the country artificially inseminate all our women here, and just use them as a baby factories. Whatdya think?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

Or, we could have all the evangalists in the country artificially inseminate all our women here, and just use them as a baby factories. Whatdya think?

Fvck Yeah!!! Then we wouldn't need illegal immigrants!!!

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

Or, we could have all the evangalists in the country artificially inseminate all our women here, and just use them as a baby factories. Whatdya think?

Fvck Yeah!!! Then we wouldn't need illegal immigrants!!!

Hells yes. We could call it "PRO-LIFE"!

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: JS80
Yet your wife can "choose" to "abort" the baby and you can't do a damn thing and it's sanctioned by the government.

Yet, it's her body that's supporting the developing fetus.

Which, of course, was spontaneously created, requiring no sperm from a man. :roll:

Where did I ever imply that? Nope, I didn't.

Please explain to me why a man should have any rights over the fetus.

Because without the man, you wouldn't have a baby in the first place. It's not ONLY the woman that makes having a baby possible. Why should a father be prevented from being able to make a decision? A father shouldn't just be ignored while his child, his own flesh and blood, is murdered.

Cause the father's body isn't being used by the fetus. The father should be completely ignored when a woman decides what to do with her body. Unless you support rape.

Her child is not hers to do with as she pleases. It's a human life. It does not "belong" to her and isn't "her body" as people continue to claim. It is a totally different body. If she wants to do something to her body then she can amputate her arm or something.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: JS80
Yet your wife can "choose" to "abort" the baby and you can't do a damn thing and it's sanctioned by the government.

Yet, it's her body that's supporting the developing fetus.

Which, of course, was spontaneously created, requiring no sperm from a man. :roll:

Where did I ever imply that? Nope, I didn't.

Please explain to me why a man should have any rights over the fetus.

Because without the man, you wouldn't have a baby in the first place. It's not ONLY the woman that makes having a baby possible. Why should a father be prevented from being able to make a decision? A father shouldn't just be ignored while his child, his own flesh and blood, is murdered.

Cause the father's body isn't being used by the fetus. The father should be completely ignored when a woman decides what to do with her body. Unless you support rape.

Her child is not hers to do with as she pleases. It's a human life. It does not "belong" to her and isn't "her body" as people continue to claim. It is a totally different body. If she wants to do something to her body then she can amputate her arm or something.

Regardless of whether the fetus is alive or not, she still has all the rights. Why? Because the fetus is sucking away her precious bodily fluids. The fetus is taking her oxygen, her food, her hormones, without giving anything in return.

Maybe I should suck away your oxygen, food, and hormones and see how you like it. I'm a human life right.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: JS80
Yet your wife can "choose" to "abort" the baby and you can't do a damn thing and it's sanctioned by the government.

Yet, it's her body that's supporting the developing fetus.

Which, of course, was spontaneously created, requiring no sperm from a man. :roll:

Where did I ever imply that? Nope, I didn't.

Please explain to me why a man should have any rights over the fetus.

Because without the man, you wouldn't have a baby in the first place. It's not ONLY the woman that makes having a baby possible. Why should a father be prevented from being able to make a decision? A father shouldn't just be ignored while his child, his own flesh and blood, is murdered.

So? The man has absolutely no burden placed upon, he isn't the one pregnant. You also have yet to prove that abortion is paramount to murder.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

No, theyre scientific terms. You realize i do not care if the fetus is alive or not, right?

 

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
But for the most part it seems to me that many people choose abortion because they don't want the responsibility. It's really sad, in fact it's downright heartbreaking because every abortion is taking away the life from a helpless child. Everyone gets up in arms when they hear of child porn, child abuse, molestation and any other atrocity (sp?) commited against kids but why does'nt that type of feeling extend to unborn babies. After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

My honest opinion. 9 months, and what pregancy does to a woman's body, shouldn't be something they have to subject themselves to as a consequence to enjoying their bodies, and that of their lover, etc. I have no problems terminating the life of an unborn child, as long as it's in the early stages of development. These aren't helpless children. These are beings without a name, without emotions, without a real grasp that they're even alive (I presume). They're in this floating blob of fluid, and can't see or hear anything. They've never seen another human being, and I doubt they realize, or can picture in their mind that they're inside a woman's womb.

I think pro-life people give these little babies a personality, a name, all sorts of things which haven't been developed yet. Sure if you have little puppy dog syndrome, and feel sorry for anything that's cute and defenseless, then sure, you're automatically going to go to feel for these "cute", defenseless creatures.

Anyway, I'm pro-choice, and I don't like the idea of a woman being forced to be subject to a pregnancy she doesn't want. Also, if it were made illegal, abortions would still take place, but in much shadier scenarios. In hidden offices, in possibly unsanitary conditions. Pro-lifers are so passionate about something that doesn't really even exist yet. I find it odd.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: JS80
Yet your wife can "choose" to "abort" the baby and you can't do a damn thing and it's sanctioned by the government.

Yet, it's her body that's supporting the developing fetus.

Which, of course, was spontaneously created, requiring no sperm from a man. :roll:

Where did I ever imply that? Nope, I didn't.

Please explain to me why a man should have any rights over the fetus.

Because without the man, you wouldn't have a baby in the first place. It's not ONLY the woman that makes having a baby possible. Why should a father be prevented from being able to make a decision? A father shouldn't just be ignored while his child, his own flesh and blood, is murdered.

So? The man has absolutely no burden placed upon, he isn't the one pregnant. You also have yet to prove that abortion is paramount to murder.

abortion = murder

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

No, theyre scientific terms. You realize i do not care if the fetus is alive or not, right?

Yeah I see that you don't really value a human life at all.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
My wife is 7 months along in her pregnacy and it's so amazing to me to see how new life is developing and growing. Even though the baby is still forming he responds to my voice and my wife's, it's an incredible experience.

Now I realize not every child has the benefit of being born to a pair of loving parents, in some cases babies are born to totally unfit and possibly unstable people. Then there are the cases where some unfortunate women have become the victim of rape and I can totally sympathize with why they feel the need to go for an abortion. But for the most part it seems to me that many people choose abortion because they don't want the responsibility. It's really sad, in fact it's downright heartbreaking because every abortion is taking away the life from a helpless child. Everyone gets up in arms when they hear of child porn, child abuse, molestation and any other atrocity (sp?) commited against kids but why does'nt that type of feeling extend to unborn babies. After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

I don't want this to degenerate into a flamefest I just felt like stating something I feel strongly about and hopefully sparking some intelligent discussion.

you're going to make a great Dad.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

Or, we could have all the evangalists in the country artificially inseminate all our women here, and just use them as a baby factories. Whatdya think?

Fvck Yeah!!! Then we wouldn't need illegal immigrants!!!

Hells yes. We could call it "PRO-LIFE"!

I think I just figured out why Bush is for amnesty for illegals and why he's pro life. He wants lots of bodies to send off to a certain death fighting the rest of the world for oil. God Bless America and Pro Life!!!

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

No, theyre scientific terms. You realize i do not care if the fetus is alive or not, right?

Yeah I see that you don't really value a human life at all.

I just value the mother just as much as the baby.

I noticed that you haven't answered my question of whether I can use your precious bodily fluids on a day to day basis for nine months. I would really like to!

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

No, theyre scientific terms. You realize i do not care if the fetus is alive or not, right?

Yeah I see that you don't really value a human life at all.

I just value the mother just as much as the baby.

I noticed that you haven't answered my question of whether I can use your precious bodily fluids on a day to day basis for nine months. I would really like to!

what does that have to do with anything? You don't need my precious fluids to survive, you're already alive, typing in random crap on the internet.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

Or, we could have all the evangalists in the country artificially inseminate all our women here, and just use them as a baby factories. Whatdya think?

Fvck Yeah!!! Then we wouldn't need illegal immigrants!!!

Hells yes. We could call it "PRO-LIFE"!

I think I just figured out why Bush is for amnesty for illegals and why he's pro life. He wants lots of bodies to send off to a certain death fighting the rest of the world for oil. God Bless America and Pro Life!!!

And immigrants, do not forget the precious illegal immigrants. :laugh: