Abortion puzzles me

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Holy Cow! this thread sure took off since I left.

A few things occur to me.

If a woman gets pregnant and waits until she is about 8 1/2 months pregnant and just decides to change her mind and 'abort' the baby, that is supposed to be perfectly fine. And if, driving to the abortion clinic, her car gets hit by a drunk driver and the baby dies, he will get charged with either vehicular homicide or murder.

If a woman decides that she is gonna tell a guy that she is on birth control when she is not, just to get pregnant, he has no say what so ever that he will be a father. he has between 18 and 21yrs of child support to look forward to. And if, after altering his life to expect and actually WANT the baby, she decides to 'terminate' the pregnancy in the 8th month, there is nothing he can say or do about that either.

A woman's body is hers to do whatever she wants with. Get pregnant, not get pregnant. Abort at 3 months, abort at 8 months 3 weeks and 6 days...whatever she wants. No one else has any rights... not the father, not the baby.

And if a 13yr old girl decides that she wants to screw around, the state and the school as well as planned parenthood will be fully supportive of her decision and help her keep it from her parents. And if she happens to get pregnant... the state and planned parenthood will again help her keep it from her family when she decides to 'terminate'.

Nice job telling us how it is.

Now you should tell us how it ought to be without the sarcasm. And maybe some reasons why.

First of all I was not being sarcastic. I was stating facts as I see them. There is nothing I posted above that is untrue, or sarcastic.

As for how things ought to be... it is not for me to say. I am one of the few women i know that think abortion is a horrible thing. but, if i were in charge of the world I would do this...

1) first trimester abortion would be the ONLY ones that are legal. Unless the mother's health is in jepordy.

2) a women would need a damn good reason to have one, and 'i changed my mind' or 'i dont have enough money' would not be good enough. (rape, incest, and mother's life being endangered are imho acceptable)

3) A women would not be allowed to have more than one abortion every 8-10years, unless her life depended on it. I understand that the condom breaks, or ppl forget to take the pill or whatever. I got pregnant on the pill, i know shite happens. But this abortion as birth control crap has to stop.

4) no one under the age of 18 would be allowed t have an abortion without parental consent. And if... as the naysayers claim... there is abuse or incest in the family.. well, there are already laws in place that make those things illegal and every/any court in the country would take that kid out of the home in a heartbeat if that were the case. So, that excuse doesnt fly. An adult family member.. not the whole family, but an adult family member must be notified.

5) abstinence would be the first form of birth control taught in school. Other forms would be touched up, but the focus would be on keeping minors chaste.

6) partial birth abortions would immediately made illegal and anyone having one or preforming one would be immediatley arrested and charged with murder. If the baby is old/developed enough to survive outside the mothers womb, that would make it murder. If it is not a viable baby, see above rules.

7) I would immediately put the control of such issues back in the hands of the states where it Constitutionally belongs before a bunch of activist judges decided that they were above the law and could re-write it.

That is what I would do if i were in charge. But i am not in charge. But that is the way i see things. I think that it is wrong for a woman to think that it is her body and she can do whatever she chooses with it. I think that having sex is a serious responsibility and comes with consequences. And just as women will tell men... if they decide to keep a baby he doesnt want ... that he should have thought about it before he pulled his wang out, I think the same should apply for women. If they dont want to have kids, they need to either keep their knickers on or be 100,000% sure they are protected, or be prepared to have a child.

I am a hard ass and a horrible witch. I think abortion is wrong, except for extreme cases. And i am older and have seen a change from abortions being a horrible, shameful thing that were hard made, tough decisions... to a run of the mill, fully acceptable alternative to being responsible.

It saddens me. And all of the scenerios in my first post angers me.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

No, theyre scientific terms. You realize i do not care if the fetus is alive or not, right?

Yeah I see that you don't really value a human life at all.

I just value the mother just as much as the baby.

I noticed that you haven't answered my question of whether I can use your precious bodily fluids on a day to day basis for nine months. I would really like to!

what does that have to do with anything? You don't need my precious fluids to survive, you're already alive, typing in random crap on the internet.

Actually, my spleen has blown out as well as my left lung. Think of me as an very old aged person on a life support machine, except I want to use YOU and your PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS as my life support. Why the hell won't you let me?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

Or, we could have all the evangalists in the country artificially inseminate all our women here, and just use them as a baby factories. Whatdya think?

why would evangalists want to have baby factories? that's the sort of thing socialist lefties who want govt to control the lives of everyone dream about.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: JS80
Yet your wife can "choose" to "abort" the baby and you can't do a damn thing and it's sanctioned by the government.

Yet, it's her body that's supporting the developing fetus.

Which, of course, was spontaneously created, requiring no sperm from a man. :roll:

Where did I ever imply that? Nope, I didn't.

Please explain to me why a man should have any rights over the fetus.

Because without the man, you wouldn't have a baby in the first place. It's not ONLY the woman that makes having a baby possible. Why should a father be prevented from being able to make a decision? A father shouldn't just be ignored while his child, his own flesh and blood, is murdered.

Cause the father's body isn't being used by the fetus. The father should be completely ignored when a woman decides what to do with her body. Unless you support rape.

Her child is not hers to do with as she pleases. It's a human life. It does not "belong" to her and isn't "her body" as people continue to claim. It is a totally different body. If she wants to do something to her body then she can amputate her arm or something.

Regardless of whether the fetus is alive or not, she still has all the rights. Why? Because the fetus is sucking away her precious bodily fluids. The fetus is taking her oxygen, her food, her hormones, without giving anything in return.

Maybe I should suck away your oxygen, food, and hormones and see how you like it. I'm a human life right.

Right, because a 1 year old baby isn't sucking at the mother's teet, and her wallet from all the things he needs...:roll:

 

[theeedude]

Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

so much for bleeding heart liberal
i guess it means bleed babies hearts

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Holy Cow! this thread sure took off since I left.

A few things occur to me.

If a woman gets pregnant and waits until she is about 8 1/2 months pregnant and just decides to change her mind and 'abort' the baby, that is supposed to be perfectly fine. And if, driving to the abortion clinic, her car gets hit by a drunk driver and the baby dies, he will get charged with either vehicular homicide or murder.

If a woman decides that she is gonna tell a guy that she is on birth control when she is not, just to get pregnant, he has no say what so ever that he will be a father. he has between 18 and 21yrs of child support to look forward to. And if, after altering his life to expect and actually WANT the baby, she decides to 'terminate' the pregnancy in the 8th month, there is nothing he can say or do about that either.

A woman's body is hers to do whatever she wants with. Get pregnant, not get pregnant. Abort at 3 months, abort at 8 months 3 weeks and 6 days...whatever she wants. No one else has any rights... not the father, not the baby.

And if a 13yr old girl decides that she wants to screw around, the state and the school as well as planned parenthood will be fully supportive of her decision and help her keep it from her parents. And if she happens to get pregnant... the state and planned parenthood will again help her keep it from her family when she decides to 'terminate'.

Nice job telling us how it is.

Now you should tell us how it ought to be without the sarcasm. And maybe some reasons why.

First of all I was not being sarcastic. I was stating facts as I see them. There is nothing I posted above that is untrue, or sarcastic.

No, but you were trying to make a point by just stating facts. I wanted an argument, not facts.

As for how things ought to be... it is not for me to say. I am one of the few women i know that think abortion is a horrible thing. but, if i were in charge of the world I would do this...

everyone has a right to say how they think things ought to be...everyone.

1) first trimester abortion would be the ONLY ones that are legal. Unless the mother's health is in jepordy.

2) a women would need a damn good reason to have one, and 'i changed my mind' or 'i dont have enough money' would not be good enough. (rape, incest, and mother's life being endangered are imho acceptable)

3) A women would not be allowed to have more than one abortion every 8-10years, unless her life depended on it. I understand that the condom breaks, or ppl forget to take the pill or whatever. I got pregnant on the pill, i know shite happens. But this abortion as birth control crap has to stop.

4) no one under the age of 18 would be allowed t have an abortion without parental consent. And if... as the naysayers claim... there is abuse or incest in the family.. well, there are already laws in place that make those things illegal and every/any court in the country would take that kid out of the home in a heartbeat if that were the case. So, that excuse doesnt fly. An adult family member.. not the whole family, but an adult family member must be notified.

5) abstinence would be the first form of birth control taught in school. Other forms would be touched up, but the focus would be on keeping minors chaste.

6) partial birth abortions would immediately made illegal and anyone having one or preforming one would be immediatley arrested and charged with murder. If the baby is old/developed enough to survive outside the mothers womb, that would make it murder. If it is not a viable baby, see above rules.

7) I would immediately put the control of such issues back in the hands of the states where it Constitutionally belongs before a bunch of activist judges decided that they were above the law and could re-write it.

That is what I would do if i were in charge. But i am not in charge. But that is the way i see things. I think that it is wrong for a woman to think that it is her body and she can do whatever she chooses with it. I think that having sex is a serious responsibility and comes with consequences. And just as women will tell men... if they decide to keep a baby he doesnt want ... that he should have thought about it before he pulled his wang out, I think the same should apply for women. If they dont want to have kids, they need to either keep their knickers on or be 100,000% sure they are protected, or be prepared to have a child.

I am a hard ass and a horrible witch. I think abortion is wrong, except for extreme cases. And i am older and have seen a change from abortions being a horrible, shameful thing that were hard made, tough decisions... to a run of the mill, fully acceptable alternative to being responsible.

It saddens me. And all of the scenerios in my first post angers me.

A lot of your post is still missing the "why" part. Why do they need a damn good reason? Why should they not have more than one every ten years, especially if they could be raped multiple times in 10 years? Why must someone be notified for a minor? #5 is already done, everywhere. I agree with this point also. Why specifically partial birth abortions? Why put it back in the hands of states, especially if you believe that we should tell women what to do with their bodies because we are protecting the sanctity of life? Isn't the sanctity of life universal, from state to state?

Personally, I cannot see any reason why abortion should be illegal. Number one, people have the right to their own bodies (this is just a basic principle). The government shouldn't tell anyone what to do inside their own body. Number two, having a baby is a life altering event. We should not force woman to "face the consequences" because she was promiscuous. Is having a baby supposed to be their punishment? I think we should leave that up to God.

This whole nonsense with partial birth abortions pisses me off. Just because you don't like how a procedure LOOKS you would outlaw it? There are plenty of other, riskier, procedures that kill the baby at the same, third trimester, and that's supposed to be legal because it doesn't look as bad? It should all be legal.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

Or, we could have all the evangalists in the country artificially inseminate all our women here, and just use them as a baby factories. Whatdya think?

why would evangalists want to have baby factories? that's the sort of thing socialist lefties who want govt to control the lives of everyone dream about.

why would pro-choicers want to kill babies up to age 6? that's the sort of thing crazy pro-lifers think about.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: JS80
Yet your wife can "choose" to "abort" the baby and you can't do a damn thing and it's sanctioned by the government.

Yet, it's her body that's supporting the developing fetus.

Which, of course, was spontaneously created, requiring no sperm from a man. :roll:

Where did I ever imply that? Nope, I didn't.

Please explain to me why a man should have any rights over the fetus.

Because without the man, you wouldn't have a baby in the first place. It's not ONLY the woman that makes having a baby possible. Why should a father be prevented from being able to make a decision? A father shouldn't just be ignored while his child, his own flesh and blood, is murdered.

Cause the father's body isn't being used by the fetus. The father should be completely ignored when a woman decides what to do with her body. Unless you support rape.

Her child is not hers to do with as she pleases. It's a human life. It does not "belong" to her and isn't "her body" as people continue to claim. It is a totally different body. If she wants to do something to her body then she can amputate her arm or something.

Regardless of whether the fetus is alive or not, she still has all the rights. Why? Because the fetus is sucking away her precious bodily fluids. The fetus is taking her oxygen, her food, her hormones, without giving anything in return.

Maybe I should suck away your oxygen, food, and hormones and see how you like it. I'm a human life right.

Right, because a 1 year old baby isn't sucking at the mother's teet, and her wallet from all the things he needs...:roll:

Oh please. A baby is not inside the mother anymore, and she has no rights to violate that babies life because it is independent now, not a nutrient sucking mass of cells.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Arkitech
After all they're the most helpless and have the least means of defending themselves.

That's exactly it. They can't fight back so they're easily annihilated. Now all that's left to do is to legalize 'after-birth' abortions; so to speak, until the age of 6. If you get tired of the kid or realize parenthood is not for you, just pop the kid a pill.

Or, we could have all the evangalists in the country artificially inseminate all our women here, and just use them as a baby factories. Whatdya think?

why would evangalists want to have baby factories? that's the sort of thing socialist lefties who want govt to control the lives of everyone dream about.

why would pro-choicers want to kill babies up to age 6? that's the sort of thing crazy pro-lifers think about.

wtf are you talking about?

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

No, theyre scientific terms. You realize i do not care if the fetus is alive or not, right?

Yeah I see that you don't really value a human life at all.

I just value the mother just as much as the baby.

I noticed that you haven't answered my question of whether I can use your precious bodily fluids on a day to day basis for nine months. I would really like to!

what does that have to do with anything? You don't need my precious fluids to survive, you're already alive, typing in random crap on the internet.

Actually, my spleen has blown out as well as my left lung. Think of me as an very old aged person on a life support machine, except I want to use YOU and your PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS as my life support. Why the hell won't you let me?

because then I can't move around and I'm tied to a bed until you finally croak? Give some cogent analogies, some some random gas that flies out of your ass

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

No, theyre scientific terms. You realize i do not care if the fetus is alive or not, right?

Yeah I see that you don't really value a human life at all.

I just value the mother just as much as the baby.

I noticed that you haven't answered my question of whether I can use your precious bodily fluids on a day to day basis for nine months. I would really like to!

what does that have to do with anything? You don't need my precious fluids to survive, you're already alive, typing in random crap on the internet.

Actually, my spleen has blown out as well as my left lung. Think of me as an very old aged person on a life support machine, except I want to use YOU and your PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS as my life support. Why the hell won't you let me?

because then I can't move around and I'm tied to a bed until you finally croak? Give some cogent analogies, some some random gas that flies out of your ass

lets say that I weigh about...the weight of a fetus. Less than a couple pounds. Answer the question buddy. Why can't I hook myself up to you?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

so much for bleeding heart liberal
i guess it means bleed babies hearts

I think it's very pragmatic. Woman has a right to her body, and baby has a right to life if it can make it. So both pro-life and pro-choice should be happy. I think with proper sex education and access to birth control, this should be a non-issue anyways.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

so much for bleeding heart liberal
i guess it means bleed babies hearts

I think it's very pragmatic. Woman has a right to her body, and baby has a right to life if it can make it. So both pro-life and pro-choice should be happy. I think with proper sex education and access to birth control, this should be a non-issue anyways.

My views are very much the same. But the big question for us is - how do we tell if it will be viable outside the womb.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: TBone48

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: JS80
[
I'm sorry, a baby from 3-9 months is not an embyro.

I'm sorry, a fetus from 3-9 months is not a baby.

There are plenty of non-babies born prior to 9 months of gestation, then

haha. but once its born, its not a fetus any more. hence no illogic there!

You realize that these words of fetus and embryo are just euphemisms that are used by people like you in order to make it seem like it's not so bad to kill a human if we label them as something other than a human or baby or living person?

No, theyre scientific terms. You realize i do not care if the fetus is alive or not, right?

Yeah I see that you don't really value a human life at all.

I just value the mother just as much as the baby.

I noticed that you haven't answered my question of whether I can use your precious bodily fluids on a day to day basis for nine months. I would really like to!

what does that have to do with anything? You don't need my precious fluids to survive, you're already alive, typing in random crap on the internet.

Actually, my spleen has blown out as well as my left lung. Think of me as an very old aged person on a life support machine, except I want to use YOU and your PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS as my life support. Why the hell won't you let me?

because then I can't move around and I'm tied to a bed until you finally croak? Give some cogent analogies, some some random gas that flies out of your ass

lets say that I weigh about...the weight of a fetus. Less than a couple pounds. Answer the question buddy. Why can't I hook myself up to you?

answer this: why should you?

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
answer this: why should you?

because i am a human life, and i will die without your precious bodily fluids. why won't you help me. i weigh less than 2 pounds (might grow a bit - yeah i might keep you in bed eventually), and i just need some life support. hook me up, bro.

will you help me out?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

so much for bleeding heart liberal
i guess it means bleed babies hearts

I think it's very pragmatic. Woman has a right to her body, and baby has a right to life if it can make it. So both pro-life and pro-choice should be happy. I think with proper sex education and access to birth control, this should be a non-issue anyways.

My views are very much the same. But the big question for us is - how do we tell if it will be viable outside the womb.

Take it outside the womb and see if it lives.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

so much for bleeding heart liberal
i guess it means bleed babies hearts

I think it's very pragmatic. Woman has a right to her body, and baby has a right to life if it can make it. So both pro-life and pro-choice should be happy. I think with proper sex education and access to birth control, this should be a non-issue anyways.

My views are very much the same. But the big question for us is - how do we tell if it will be viable outside the womb.

Take it outside the womb and see if it lives.

but most procedures require destroying the fetus in the womb, or it'll be destroyed due to the stress of the abortion. it's not a simple as it seems.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
IMO: For a lot of people, the sentiment against abortion does not arise from any real concern for the baby (or if it does it's secondary). It instead comes from a self-righteous desire to punish women for what they perceive to be "immoral" sexual behavior. The "if you choose to have sex, you must accept the consequences" argument.

Oh, so let's cure every STD and legalise abortion...so we can all fvck like rabbits on every street corner. Screw the concept of a relationship.

So.. You are one of those people.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

so much for bleeding heart liberal
i guess it means bleed babies hearts

I think it's very pragmatic. Woman has a right to her body, and baby has a right to life if it can make it. So both pro-life and pro-choice should be happy. I think with proper sex education and access to birth control, this should be a non-issue anyways.

My views are very much the same. But the big question for us is - how do we tell if it will be viable outside the womb.

Take it outside the womb and see if it lives.

but most procedures require destroying the fetus in the womb, or it'll be destroyed due to the stress of the abortion. it's not a simple as it seems.

Well, it is complicated, but statistically below certain gestation they die, so we won't waste time on those. Just scrape em out or whatever. I am talking about the ones that may be viable but are not given the chance. Those should be birthed and then if they live, they live, if not they don't. Stress of abortion is just tough luck. People die of stress all the time.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
What I want to know is...when does the US Constitution start protecting our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? And when does it stop?

You are not a citizen or a resident until you're given a birth certificate (at birth). The Constitution starts protecting your rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness the day you are issued a birth certificate (assuming you're born here).

Where in the Constitution does it state that you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: OdiN
Abortion = Muder

Plain and simple. As said, there are only a few cases in which I can understand why - a pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother, etc.

Think of it this way. A mother who is say 2 months pregnant is mugged and stabbed, which causes her unborn child to die. Would you want the mugger charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or murder?

The embryo is not living on it's own; it requires the mothers support in order to survive. Therefore, the MOTHER has control as to what she wants to do with the baby. Therefore, no, it is not murder. It's her body.

Newborns require support to survive too. How many of them can feed themselves?

I still think 2 years old is a good cut-off point for "abortion" because by then they can at least walk and try to find food. :laugh:

In the first 4 (or whatever many of months it is legal to get an abortion until) the embryo is completely reliant on the physical body of the mother. Nor does it react, respond, talk, etc., so it is not comparable to a 2 year old toddler.

Both are human lives. Killing one is no different than killing the other.

WTF? A embryo is NOT equal to a human life.

Both are human lives. Killing one is no different than killing the other.

That is your OPINION. My OPINION happens to differ from yours.

 

[Penth]

There's an hour of my life I'll never get back.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

so much for bleeding heart liberal
i guess it means bleed babies hearts

I think it's very pragmatic. Woman has a right to her body, and baby has a right to life if it can make it. So both pro-life and pro-choice should be happy. I think with proper sex education and access to birth control, this should be a non-issue anyways.

My views are very much the same. But the big question for us is - how do we tell if it will be viable outside the womb.

Take it outside the womb and see if it lives.

but most procedures require destroying the fetus in the womb, or it'll be destroyed due to the stress of the abortion. it's not a simple as it seems.

Well, it is complicated, but statistically below certain gestation they die, so we won't waste time on those. Just scrape em out or whatever. I am talking about the ones that may be viable but are not given the chance. Those should be birthed and then if they live, they live, if not they don't. Stress of abortion is just tough luck. People die of stress all the time.

ok, i might be able to agree to that (ill have to think it over more carefully). what do we do if the fetus *is* viable outside the body? do we give it to the mother, who decided to try to abort the pregnancy? or does it immediately go up for adoption?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: senseamp
Here is my position on abortion. Woman has a right to "evict" a fetus from her body. But if it's viable outside the womb, it should not be killed.

so much for bleeding heart liberal
i guess it means bleed babies hearts

I think it's very pragmatic. Woman has a right to her body, and baby has a right to life if it can make it. So both pro-life and pro-choice should be happy. I think with proper sex education and access to birth control, this should be a non-issue anyways.

My views are very much the same. But the big question for us is - how do we tell if it will be viable outside the womb.

Take it outside the womb and see if it lives.

but most procedures require destroying the fetus in the womb, or it'll be destroyed due to the stress of the abortion. it's not a simple as it seems.

Well, it is complicated, but statistically below certain gestation they die, so we won't waste time on those. Just scrape em out or whatever. I am talking about the ones that may be viable but are not given the chance. Those should be birthed and then if they live, they live, if not they don't. Stress of abortion is just tough luck. People die of stress all the time.

ok, i might be able to agree to that (ill have to think it over more carefully). what do we do if the fetus *is* viable outside the body? do we give it to the mother, who decided to try to abort the pregnancy? or does it immediately go up for adoption?

Immediately for adoption to whoever agrees to pay for premature baby healthcare costs