I don't want or have the time right now to debate frivolous semantics but I will just say that the world is not how it seems. As well WWII shooters can suck off because war is not nice and many of these would be internet "toughs" that talk big time about war games and killing ect and such would not make it a day in a "real" life and death war time situation me included.
DrunkenSano
Diamond Member
- Aug 8, 2008
- 3,892
- 490
- 126
This has to be one of the most idiotic drivel I have ever read in my life. If you really think that a video game trivializes a person's service in the military, then you are either retarded or out of touch with reality. If you think playing a video game will make your parents hate you or think less of you, you either have retarded parents or you really don't understand what a game is. Anyone who is offended by someone else for playing a video game is an idiot. Plain and simple.
A video game does not even compare to reality. If you think it does, then you are the one that is trivializing things. Playing war in a game doesn't equate it to real war, not even close. Playing a Nazi in a game doesn't make you a Nazi or mean you hold their ideals, to think so is dumb.
I agree and will add that many thousands of enlisted war vets and current victims I mean people solders fighting overseas on "BOTH SIDES" are playing and enjoying MW2 and BF3 and many other FPS games on thy laptops in there down time before lights out. So many people think in purely simple Black and White terms when the world is chalk full of colors in between those two shades.
Or its option number three, you don't know what the **** your talking about. If you had family that was in Vietnam might have experienced their discomfort with anything related to the war. At family BBQs if my uncles are there, they'll say they'd prefer a movie not be violent, and definitely not about Vietnam. Maybe in your household you'd tell them to get over it, its a movie, but not in mine. I'm not doing it because I think it'll make me a better person in there eyes. I don't do it because I empathize with family members who lived these specific events.
Yeah, its a video game, so why even entertain the thought? The cousins are all gamers, and we talk about what we are playing when we get together. We know what topics will get certain things stirring in our uncles heads, and we don't bring it up. I know some of the war stories, and I know what is in the game is based on real people and what they did. I'm not going to do it for meaningless entertainment. There are a million ways to entertained, why do chose a way where the content negatively affected those around you? Games based on historical events trivialize the importance of history they are portraying. Sure its just game. Next they are just Nazis. Then its like...wtf, the Nazis were real? Its just a game. Why not a holocaust simulator? Its just a game. Why not play a game where you hunt down runaway slaves? Its just a game. A Columbine simulator? Its just a game. A World Trade Center game where you blow up the towers and live? Its just a game.
Just because the content of a game doesn't mean sh1t to you doesn't mean others feel the same way.
Knives are a "Killing" device so we should we ban those to because they kill people LOL I suggest advocating and exercising "Consumer Advocacy" instead of bitching about such things as video game content plus it has a rating system so I suggest heeding the warnings. If you dont want to hear BS turn off the TV LOL simple as that and if you dont like the content of a video game don't play it simple as that. The war machine and economy will not stop or slow because of "Violent" content in games LOL.
Hence my original response to this thread, I would not play as a Nazi. I dont recall saying ban the game. I said I wouldnt support the dev with $$$.
I respect Childs' position. I don't even totally agree with it - he has a feeling about 'honoroing' the Vietnam service of his uncles when I think the more important issue there is for people to learn the problems with that war - but what he's saying is a good thing at recognizing art he isn't comfortable with.
I have refused to play a game like hitman, given the nature of the game. I've refused to have a char in an RPG lie to get a benefit in a quest.
I understand art can be a 'release' for some things; the non-violent Japanese have some very violent art; but then again look how they behaved in WWII with horrible war crimes.
It's a line between where 'art' is 'artistic' or somehow beneficial and where it's harmful, de-sensitizing people to violence, de-humanizing groups.
While a game of whites slaughtering a group of blacks would be 'unacceptable', that's why aliena and Nazis and zombies are such common villains, removing the political obstacles. But we should undrstand that those replacements are veiled covers for killing blacks or Mexicans or Jews or any other group it's not acceptable to portray. There's no such thing as zombies but there is an appetite for mass slaughter, in 'fantasy'.
So what's this issue about? It's ok to have a game where your strret gang slaughters another street gang; but not one where you're the KKK slaughteting the NAACP.
Why the difference? Both are just computer games and don't hurt anyone.
That's why we mention examples like 'SimHolocaust'. Imagine a shooter not killing gang members, but where you play the Colombine shooters and murder students.
It's where the lines are crossed closer to 'real tragedies', to where you are perversely satisfying evil desires - like child porn for a pedophile - it becomes more clearly offensive.
There's that line between 'art' and 'supporting evil', rejoicing in the evil. How about a graphic sim of raping a child or torturing a cat? Who would want that? Good to support?
We should err on the side of freedom of art, but not feel there's anything wrong with not wanting to take part in art depicting things we oppose.
As far as Childs not wanting to support or take part in it? Good for him. And hopefully some other art might help broaden his perspective on Vietnam.
So am I absolutist about the 'freedom of art'? Up to the point it's encouraging a real threat to the safety of people - i.e., I support German restrictions on the Swastika.
And I don't see those restrictions as justifiable in the US - even if there is sporadic violence by racist groups who revel in the use o fthe Swastika.
In Britain, they're closer to the line with growing, real movements using those images and increasing attacks on people.
But I'd allow the publication of something like Mein Kampf pretty much always, including Germany - hiding evil is not the way to fight it. Let people see it and see why it's wrong.
If Mein Kampf were to start to catch on and gain followers - that's a danger of democracy. The threat to 'the freedom of the people' is too great to censor that.
This is an old free speech issue - what do you do with harmful lies? Censor them or fight them with information why they're wrong? The latter is generally the better answer.
However, that better answer is under great attack today, when money is so one-sided at pushing lies that benefit a few on society, and they frequently win.
Playing the Nazis in a video game is usually nothing more than a childish action, like putting something unacceptable in a screen handle name.
Something people with any sensibility may not be too interested in, but not close to needing to be censored, outside Germany.
I have refused to play a game like hitman, given the nature of the game. I've refused to have a char in an RPG lie to get a benefit in a quest.
I understand art can be a 'release' for some things; the non-violent Japanese have some very violent art; but then again look how they behaved in WWII with horrible war crimes.
It's a line between where 'art' is 'artistic' or somehow beneficial and where it's harmful, de-sensitizing people to violence, de-humanizing groups.
While a game of whites slaughtering a group of blacks would be 'unacceptable', that's why aliena and Nazis and zombies are such common villains, removing the political obstacles. But we should undrstand that those replacements are veiled covers for killing blacks or Mexicans or Jews or any other group it's not acceptable to portray. There's no such thing as zombies but there is an appetite for mass slaughter, in 'fantasy'.
So what's this issue about? It's ok to have a game where your strret gang slaughters another street gang; but not one where you're the KKK slaughteting the NAACP.
Why the difference? Both are just computer games and don't hurt anyone.
That's why we mention examples like 'SimHolocaust'. Imagine a shooter not killing gang members, but where you play the Colombine shooters and murder students.
It's where the lines are crossed closer to 'real tragedies', to where you are perversely satisfying evil desires - like child porn for a pedophile - it becomes more clearly offensive.
There's that line between 'art' and 'supporting evil', rejoicing in the evil. How about a graphic sim of raping a child or torturing a cat? Who would want that? Good to support?
We should err on the side of freedom of art, but not feel there's anything wrong with not wanting to take part in art depicting things we oppose.
As far as Childs not wanting to support or take part in it? Good for him. And hopefully some other art might help broaden his perspective on Vietnam.
So am I absolutist about the 'freedom of art'? Up to the point it's encouraging a real threat to the safety of people - i.e., I support German restrictions on the Swastika.
And I don't see those restrictions as justifiable in the US - even if there is sporadic violence by racist groups who revel in the use o fthe Swastika.
In Britain, they're closer to the line with growing, real movements using those images and increasing attacks on people.
But I'd allow the publication of something like Mein Kampf pretty much always, including Germany - hiding evil is not the way to fight it. Let people see it and see why it's wrong.
If Mein Kampf were to start to catch on and gain followers - that's a danger of democracy. The threat to 'the freedom of the people' is too great to censor that.
This is an old free speech issue - what do you do with harmful lies? Censor them or fight them with information why they're wrong? The latter is generally the better answer.
However, that better answer is under great attack today, when money is so one-sided at pushing lies that benefit a few on society, and they frequently win.
Playing the Nazis in a video game is usually nothing more than a childish action, like putting something unacceptable in a screen handle name.
Something people with any sensibility may not be too interested in, but not close to needing to be censored, outside Germany.
thejunglegod
Golden Member
- Feb 12, 2012
- 1,358
- 36
- 91
There is always difference of opinion and this thread is a perfect example. Although the controversy itself may be enough to drive sales of a game such as this. I'd mentioned earlier that it would be fun playing as Hitler getting into his mindset but I now feel that it won't be such a good idea. There are many immature idiots on this world who like to idolize him and his "virtues".
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
So playing a invading troop of another country like..oh i don't know..Iraq of Afghanistan to kill innocent people is different? Body account alone does not make one better than the other.
I don't really play games with Americans either like COD or MOH much prefer fighting aliens or rogue factions like classic doom, bioshock or half lifes and keep killing other humans to a minimum. But if I were to play contemporary war games it would not be as a Nazi solider given known ideological history and forced conscription two things I can not get behind..
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BlitzPuppet
Platinum Member
- Feb 4, 2012
- 2,460
- 7
- 81
You play the Nazis through a campaign in Red Orchestra 2. Haven't seen if this has been mentioned as I'm not reading through 4 pages.
I'm tired of this whole anti-nazi stigma around their front line soliders. They were just that, soldiers...and brave ones at that. They took europe by force during WWII and you have to respect them for that.
Just because they were in the Wehrmacht doesn't mean they were actual "Nazis".
BTW I always play as german in RO2. Love me some Mausers.
I'm tired of this whole anti-nazi stigma around their front line soliders. They were just that, soldiers...and brave ones at that. They took europe by force during WWII and you have to respect them for that.
Just because they were in the Wehrmacht doesn't mean they were actual "Nazis".
BTW I always play as german in RO2
. Love me some Mausers.
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shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 82,854
- 17,365
- 136
I would like to know the name of this game you speak of?
Fallout New Vegas.
The twins at the Atomic Wrangler need 3 prostitutes. One cowgirl, one smooth talker, and a robot. The robot is around the west side of the main north entrance in an old bot factory that most players dont see unless they explore thoroughly. You need a high science skill or a programming tape to get the thing working.
It gives you the option to try him out before sending him on.
The robot is named Fisto.
Not at all. I have played COD 1 single player, and guess what, I was not a Nazi. BF3 is US vs Russia. Pretty consistent. You lack reading comprehension skills.
People would do stuff like that in Counter-Strike. Not digging mass graves, but using the hostages as human shields. Players on either team lose money if they kill the hostages, so they could effectively stop people from using explosives or shooting too many bullets. The hostages never duck, so ducking in front of them leaves them completely exposed. If you're spraying bullets at the terrorists, you might accidentally kill all of the hostages and lose a ton of money.
Then again that's before games were "real" or "gritty" or whatever. The hostages were dressed as scientists and the graphics are very cartoony, so it doesn't have the same psychological effect. You don't think "i'm killing people" but more like "i'm killing stupid computer bullcrap"
Other types of asshole griefing are seen in other games. World of Warcraft had the corrupt blood plague, which is as close as any game will ever get to spreading a disease like the black death in highly populated urban areas.
Sulaco
Diamond Member
- Mar 28, 2003
- 3,860
- 44
- 91
Raduque
Lifer
- Aug 22, 2004
- 13,141
- 138
- 106
True. You'd have to go back to 1997 to get a true Western FPS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaws_(1997_video_game)
thejunglegod
Golden Member
- Feb 12, 2012
- 1,358
- 36
- 91
Couldn't you play as a Nazi in RON? Don't recall clearly but I think u could. But since it's a topic about FPS' it doesn't really count.
And I completely support Childs on his stand. Respect.
And I completely support Childs on his stand. Respect.
Thats good that you dont agree with the Nazi's rhetoric & propaganda but at the same time you are agreeing that is more justfyable to play as another "Killing" faction ? Two wrongs do not make a right.
Yes. Yes I am. A game killing Nazis is good, and I would not play a game where I would be a Nazi. I'm not claiming I am the Buddha.
Yes. Yes I am. A game killing Nazis is good, and I would not play a game where I would be a Nazi. I'm not claiming I am the Buddha.
You should probably read up a bit about what the US did in Vietnam. It's entirely possible by your logic to argue that the average American soldier in Vietnam is as bad as the guards at Auschwitz. Or is this different because this time the genocidal baby-killers are your family?
Anyway, I think that a WW2 game where you played the Germans could be very interesting. Personally, If we're talking something more FPS oriented, I'd set it on the eastern front. Start with the invasion of Poland (lets face it, Panzer Mk IIIs vs Polish cavalry makes an easy warm up) Possibly a jump over to France, because Germany was able to move a lot of it's forces back west to participate in that, and let's face it, that was one of the great military maneuvers of all time. After that, I'd set the rest of the game in the eastern front, with the push into Russia, and the hopeless fighting retreat back to Berlin.
Themactically, I also imagine themes similar to Das Boot. I might even make it more nuanced, and force the player to go thru multiple emotional stages. If I had full story control, I'd probably start with a map voiceover showing the end of WWI, with a reduced germany punished by the Allies for a war it didn't start. maybe a cutscene or two (possibly integrated with a movement tutorial) of the player growing up in hardscrable Weimar Germany before the war. I'd probably include a couple nationalistic bits to make the player feel proud of what they're doing in the polish and french campaigns, then force the player to both see russian atrocities, and commit ones of his own in the russian campaign (designed to make him feel horrible) finished with the hopeless fighting retreat over wasted countryside to Berlin. In short, I'd make them run thru the full range of emotions of war, with the hopefull end being a conclusion of "oh crap, this whole episode was horrible."
Poland never defended against or charged German armoured vehicles. That's German propaganda working on people... still now.
"In 1939, 10% of the Polish army was made up of cavalry units.[81] Polish cavalry never charged German tanks or entrenched infantry or artillery, but usually acted as mobile infantry (like dragoons) and reconnaissance units and executed cavalry charges only in rare situations against foot soldiers. Other armies (including German and Soviet) also fielded and extensively used elite horse cavalry units at that time. Polish cavalry consisted of eleven brigades, as emphasized by its military doctrine, equipped with anti tank rifles "UR" and light artillery such as the highly effective Bofors 37 mm anti-tank gun. The myth originated from war correspondents reports of the Battle of Krojanty, where a Polish cavalry brigade was fired upon in ambush by hidden armored vehicles, after it had mounted a sabre-charge against German infantry."
It's a common misconception... among others
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland#Misconceptions
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