A sample of how 'hard' teachers have it

[Engineer]

So how much have you given to the school out of the kindness of your heart?

You want to pay more in taxes then start writing checks.

If they need the money and ask for it in the form of a tax increase, I'll fork it over without a gripe.

As for helping out the schools, we (family) volunteer to work Market Day every month for the last few years to raise money for the school across the street. We also purchase the very overpriced items to raise money for that school (and they are pretty tasty too even if very expensive).

 

[Carmen813]

It's just such a crock when people attack education, specifically teachers. I think we should get rid of poor teachers, but my god, these people probably have the single greatest impact on our countries economic output. And for a profession which requires as much training and continuing education as it does, the starting pay is pretty terrible. Even using your bogus math 75k a year isn't unreasonable for the work that is done.

 

[Harvey]

That website is bunk. It has wrong data atleast for California. It shows the average teacher salary in California as 59K, but actual payroll from the state show it is 68K. Almost 10K more than that website claims. This doesn't even include the the pension benefits that they get. Retire at 60 and get 75% of your highest yearly pay for life adjusted for inflation. Also lifetime health benefits too.

Here is a website with average teacher salary in California. This uses REAL payroll data that is a public record. This is not a survey but is instead actual payroll data that each and every districts submits.

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/99...hool-district.html?appSession=973233077250394

Good! I'm glad my state pays its teachers above the national average, and given their responsiblities for educating our kids, I don't think they're paid enough. Then again, $68,000 per year = $5666 per month = 1300 per week. That's not rich, but it may be reasonable survival wages for a single person without dependent children, parents or other family members, and without any other financial burdens, such as paying off student loans, etc. AFIC, it's a well under what I would consider sufficient for someone with any of those financial burdens or those who encounter any of a number of other financial emergencies in their lives.

It's certainly not enough to persuade our best and brightest to take on the burdens and responsibilities of educating our children on whom our future depends.

And PJ, the NON-professor, NON-teacher is still blowing smoke out of his ass.

 

[theeedude]

This is the same crew that throws a fit at the thought that billionaires may have to pay taxes at same rate as working people instead of 15%. But God forbid teachers make a good living with good benefits. That's what's wrong with you rightwingers. You have conditioned yourself to believing that the middle class has it too good and is a drain on society.

 

[chedrz]

As a teacher myself, I was going to throw a complete shitfit over this little post. It seems the rest of AT has done the job for me. Bravo. Glad to know some people are willing to stick up for those who are more-often-than-not actually doing the parenting of children these days.

 

[nobodyknows]

My sister in-law is a teacher as is her sister and many of their friends.

But feel free to do the math and show me how a teacher working 187 days a year does more work than a full time non-teacher working 235 days a year.

Hell, I'll do it for you.

Regular stiff: 2 weeks vacation, 10 paid holidays, 5 sick days. That is 25 days off a year or 235 working days a year.

235x8= 1,880 hours a year.

Teacher 187 days a year.
1,800/187 = 10 hours a day every day for the entire school year to equal same amount of work hours as typical 40 hours a week person.

So how many teachers do we have here posting in P&N from work?

 

[sarsipias1234]

Most teachers I had at Sacramento High School were so bad that they eventually shut down the entire school.

Now Sacramento High School is a charter school.

Here is a quote from Sacramento Charter High School via the Sac Bee newspaper about what occurred:

"After years of declining student achievement, Sac High faced possible state takeover in 2003. Unable to get beyond an angry impasse between a superintendent urging reform and an inflexible teachers union, the school board voted 4-3 to close the school in June of that year."

Inflexible teachers union! If these teachers love teaching so much why don't they teach for poverty wages and teach for the sake of teaching? Looks like these teachers left all the kids behind because of greed for money.

Another quote from Sacramento Charter High School about what occurred:

"In addition to improvements in the API (see chart), Sac High's four-year dropout rate has fallen; more than 70 percent of students in the Class of 2009 have been accepted to a four-year college; more than threequartersof the school's 10th-graders pass the state's high school exit exam, required for graduation. This is no small feat."

70% have been accepted to a college! When will public teachers face reality in California and admit they have been doing a terrible job. I believe the teachers of California are so corrupt by money and greed they cannot admit they are horrible at teaching.

Here's a link to Sacramento Charter High School if you want to check out the site:
http://www.sachigh.org/index.htm

And also here is the link to the article I quoted from Sac Bee newspaper:
http://www.sachigh.org/pdfs/Sac High turnaround can't be ignored.pdf

 

[sarsipias1234]

Here's another quote from sac high charter school website:

Despite the dismal situation at the school and the incredibly low academic
achievement levels, a small faction fought hard to maintain the status quo. The
struggle was intense, including a $750,000 effort by the California Teachers
Association and Sacramento City Teachers Association to block the effort. On
the other hand, at the final school board meeting, more than 1,500 citizens who
wanted to see the school change came out in support of St. HOPE. In the end,
the fortitude of the Board and the voice of the Oak Park community prevailed.

The California Teachers Association spend $750,000 to block the effort of turning Sacramento High School into a charter school????

They threw away 3/4 of a million dollars to block a charter school which is now doing way better scholastically.

This is nothing more than a costly attempt to prevent direct competition to the public school district. At the tax payer expense!

California teachers are corrupt. If you do not see that they are corrupt then you are part of the problem.

 

[sarsipias1234]

As a teacher myself, I was going to throw a complete shitfit over this little post. It seems the rest of AT has done the job for me. Bravo. Glad to know some people are willing to stick up for those who are more-often-than-not actually doing the parenting of children these days.

If you know in your heart that you are good and doing the right thing then you would not even be tempted to have a shitfit over what any person says about teacher pay.

I mean if you are truly on your correct path of wisdom you would be happy and not affected by other's negativity. But you seem very sensitive to any criticism which is suspect.

When I first moved to Sacramento from Illinois most of the teachers in Sacramento were very unhappy and depressed people. The teachers also were very narcissistic and just plain misled about what life is supposed to be about. How are these adults supposed to teach anything when they are depressed and a bad example of a human being?

 

[Fear No Evil]

As a teacher myself, I was going to throw a complete shitfit over this little post. It seems the rest of AT has done the job for me. Bravo. Glad to know some people are willing to stick up for those who are more-often-than-not actually doing the parenting of children these days.

Of course you were going to throw a shitfit over it. That's what teachers do ANY time you mention ANY changes or question ANYTHING they do. Perhaps your kids could teach you something about maturity.

 

[Harvey]

As a teacher myself, I was going to throw a complete shitfit over this little post. It seems the rest of AT has done the job for me. Bravo. Glad to know some people are willing to stick up for those who are more-often-than-not actually doing the parenting of children these days.

If you know in your heart that you are good and doing the right thing then you would not even be tempted to have a shitfit over what any person says about teacher pay.

I mean if you are truly on your correct path of wisdom you would be happy and not affected by other's negativity. But you seem very sensitive to any criticism which is suspect.

When I first moved to Sacramento from Illinois most of the teachers in Sacramento were very unhappy and depressed people. The teachers also were very narcissistic and just plain misled about what life is supposed to be about. How are these adults supposed to teach anything when they are depressed and a bad example of a human being?

The fact that there are problems within various educational systems is not a reason to negate the complaints of those good and VERY underpaid teachers who serve our communities and our children. Your motives for your complaints about chedrz's post are far more suspect than anything he said.

 

[cwjerome]

THAT is the problem.

So you make $54k now. Let's say you retire at that amount and go further and say that was what you made every year for 30 years (to make the math easy)

So now you are 55 and making $37,800 a year for LIFE for doing nothing.

Now the math.
30 years x $54,000 = $1,620,000 total pay over your career

20 years retirement x $37,800 = $756,000 in retirement
30 years retirement x $37,800 = $1,134,000 in retirement

So the cost of just your pay works out to be
$2,376,000 if you survive retirement for 20 years
$2,745,000 if you survive retirement for 30 years.

Cost per year for just your pay (healthcare is probably 10-15% of your pay)
30 work + 20 retirement means you actually make $79,200 per year of work
30+30 and you are making $91,800 per year of work.

Do you think $79,200 a year is a fair pay rate for what you do?

I said I think I am compensated fairly, yes. But that 79K is in today's dollars, and the amount that I get in retirement will slowly decrease in purchasing power over 30 years, or I may croak 1 year after retiring. There are a lot of factors to consider. I said I think thrift savings accounts are a good way to go already...

You seem to really want the lowest of the low to be teachers. Do you hate this society? Do you care about this country? Do you want a thriving educational system or a place where low paid rejects go to fail posterity?

 

[sarsipias1234]

Unions are inherently bad for human beings as they do not challenge us to grow and learn.

A common joke among California State Union workers is that 20% of employees do the work of 80%.

I can testify to this being the case as I know a person who is paid $60,000 a year for IT work and doesn't even know how to repair a hard drive failure and recover data.

She readily admits she does nothing at work but answer a few phone calls all day.

This has actually harmed her more than she knows. She is a very depressed person who is anti-social and is now suicidal and on tons of psychotropic drugs.

 

[ProfJohn]

I said I think I am compensated fairly, yes. But that 79K is in today's dollars, and the amount that I get in retirement will slowly decrease in purchasing power over 30 years, or I may croak 1 year after retiring. There are a lot of factors to consider. I said I think thrift savings accounts are a good way to go already...

You seem to really want the lowest of the low to be teachers. Do you hate this society? Do you care about this country? Do you want a thriving educational system or a place where low paid rejects go to fail posterity?

I am worried about the economic future of this country.

We can't continue to offer and pay these huge types of retirement deals.

Your salary seems fine. But what happens when you are retired and are making $37,800 a year and they have to also pay a new teacher $54,000 a year to do the job you aren't doing.

Now it cost us $91k a year to teach one classroom. That is a problem.

What kind of education system are we going to have when for every teacher working you have one retired making 70% of their pay?

For every dollar we spend on active teachers we could be paying 70 cent on ones who are retired.

That is the road to destruction. We can't afford it. Taxes to pay for all the government employees who are working plus those retired will have to be so high that our economy will go to hell.

 

[sarsipias1234]

The fact that there are problems within various educational systems is not a reason to negate the complaints of those good and VERY underpaid teachers who serve our communities and our children. Your motives for your complaints about chedrz's post are far more suspect than anything he said.

I have no financial interest in this argument so why is what I say suspect?

Chedrz does have a financial interest so his argument is corrupt by money.

My motivation is purely to express my frustration at the corruption in this state and country.

There are problems with various educational systems because of corrupt people/teachers.

How can an educational system have problems and those problems not be directly related to the teachers which make up the educational system?

Your post is most suspect of all.

 

[Harvey]

Unions are inherently bad for human beings as they do not challenge us to grow and learn.

That is a humongous crock of shit! :thumbsdown:

Unions can be, and have been, as corrupt as big business and financial institutions, but they can also be as much of a benefit to society as the most enlightened of benevolent employers and the ONLY means a group of workers to have any leverage, whatsoever, when negotiating with an unscrupulous, well funded management.

Unions are the reason we have a 40 hour week, child labor laws, workplace health and safety laws, a minimum wage and more.

You, sir, are blowing dogmatic right wingnut smoke out of your ass. :hmm:

 

[sarsipias1234]

I said I think I am compensated fairly, yes. But that 79K is in today's dollars, and the amount that I get in retirement will slowly decrease in purchasing power over 30 years, or I may croak 1 year after retiring. There are a lot of factors to consider. I said I think thrift savings accounts are a good way to go already...

You seem to really want the lowest of the low to be teachers. Do you hate this society? Do you care about this country? Do you want a thriving educational system or a place where low paid rejects go to fail posterity?

We already have the lowest of the low as teachers in California. Just look at the records!

I want teachers that will do the job for poverty wages because those teachers will be there because they truly love teaching and subsequently do a much better job.

You can sum up the whole argument from teachers in California in 3 words:

"I LIKE MONEY"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHCVyllnck

 

[rchiu]

This is the same crew that throws a fit at the thought that billionaires may have to pay taxes at same rate as working people instead of 15%. But God forbid teachers make a good living with good benefits. That's what's wrong with you rightwingers. You have conditioned yourself to believing that the middle class has it too good and is a drain on society.

You forget one main difference. Billionaires do not take one cent from tax payer's pocket but teacher's salary and pension (public school teachers) come from tax payer's pocket.

If you privatize education and market supply and demand determines that teacher should get this level of pay and benefit, nobody should say a word about it. But if they are part of the political special interest group, backed by union, and their salary is not based on their skills and market demand/supply but purely political push and shove, and that political push and shove impact us and our tax money, then of course everyone should have a say in this.

Having said that, I don't think teacher's salary is too high. It is the pension that is problematic, this goes for every other public workers. Defined benefit pension scheme is the worst invention ever for public workers. This "defined benefit" is often used by politicians to buy votes during elections. And every time the benefit is increased, no corresponding revenue source is identified. Tax payers is left holding the bag for all these political bribery.

Pension should just be a money management program, you have define contribution, you have your 401k, and whatever you put in plus the interest, will be your retirement money. No more, no less. No political promises, not tax payer subsidies.

 

[sarsipias1234]

That is a humongous crock of shit! :thumbsdown:

Unions can be, and have been, as corrupt as big business and financial institutions, but they can also be as much of a benefit to society as the most enlightened of benevolent employers and the ONLY means a group of workers to have any leverage, whatsoever, when negotiating with an unscrupulous, well funded management.

Unions are the reason we have a 40 hour week, child labor laws, workplace health and safety laws, a minimum wage and more.

You, sir, are blowing dogmatic right wingnut smoke out of your ass. :hmm:

You sound like someone that benefits from a union. Most unions in California are corrupt. The unions have to be corrupt because the government is corrupt and you have to fight evil with evil. This is very similar to the mafia.

Just look at the corruption occurring in the Fullerton police department.

The police murdered a human being and the union and police department are trying to cover up their crimes.

There are thousands of these stories of corruption.

I've lived in California for 25 years and I have never heard anything good about any of the unions.

Even the state employees joke about how little work they do and they don't care!

The unions will bankrupt this state because of the unfunded pension liabilities.

So how can a union be good at all if they bankrupt the entire state economy?

Unions are sacrificing the majority of the population for the sake of the few unionized workers.

Unions are nothing more that special interest under the guise of freedom and liberty for all!

Unions are the special interest of a few, privileged people. This is exactly how are government is corrupt. Via special interest.

This is what I mean is that the unions fight evil with evil. You fight something that is corrupt for so long you become corrupt as well.

The unions weren't always corrupt but they are now threatening to destroy the economy at large.

 

[ArchAngel777]

My wife is a teacher. She feels she is paid very fairly. I believe she makes 45K or so with some great benifits. When we were first married, she made more than I did in my tech consuling job. It took a few years and I passed her by. But, I still think her pay is great.

I roll my eyes when I see teachers complain about their pay. They pretend that they go into the profession to because they want to help/teach and do something positive for society, but then they turn around and bitch about their pay. It is like a pastor who wants more money. What is it? Did you chose the profession to make a great salary or did you chose it because you wanted to help children? If money is your concern, then change professions. If it isn't take your pay and be happy that you are doing the world a great blessing.

Another note: Teachers do work hard. So I don't think they should be disrespected. However, I also don't think it is far to disrespect non-teachers. Who is to say whose job is more difficult? If you want to bitch about something, bitch about CEO's that make millions (or billions) to cut jobs and farm them oversees.

 

[Harvey]

You sound like someone that benefits from a union. Most unions in California are corrupt. The unions have to be corrupt because the government is corrupt and you have to fight evil with evil. This is very similar to the mafia.

Proving that you're as ignorant as you are dogmatic. I've been self-employed as a consulting engineer designing audio electronics since the 70's. The last time I was in a union was when I was a member of the musicians union local 47 when I was a touring professional musican.

The AF of M was a corrupt union, but no more corrupt than many of those who hired musical acts. I was grateful that I was able to earn union wages for my work and have at least some health benefits.

Just look at the corruption occurring in the Fullerton police department.

The police murdered a human being and the union and police department are trying to cover up their crimes.

There are thousands of these stories of corruption.

And you think that the specific example of abuse of police authority makes all unions corrupt in principle?

That's as much a crock of shit as your last idiotic jackassery! :thumbsdown:

I've lived in California for 25 years and I have never heard anything good about any of the unions.

I'm a native, and unlike you, at least, I've paid attention. Some unions are corrupt. Some employers are corrupt. Blanket statements about ALL unions, without acknowledging the societal benefits many have brought through collective action is pure right wingnuttery.

Are you one of the Tea Tards?

 

[sarsipias1234]

Proving that you're as ignorant as you are dogmatic. I've been self-employed as a consulting engineer designing audio electronics since the 70's. The last time I was in a union was when I was a member of the musicians union local 47 when I was a touring professional musican.

The AF of M was a corrupt union, but no more corrupt than many of those who hired musical acts. I was grateful that I was able to earn union wages for my work and have at least some health benefits.



And you think that the specific example of abuse of police authority makes all unions corrupt in principle?

That's as much a crock of shit as your last idiotic jackassery! :thumbsdown:



I'm a native, and unlike you, at least, I've paid attention. Some unions are corrupt. Some employers are corrupt. Blanket statements about ALL unions, without acknowledging the societal benefits many have brought through collective action is pure right wingnuttery.

Are you one of the Tea Tards?

What about the unfunded pension liabilities that threaten to undermine the whole economy?

All unions are special interest groups for the last 25 years. They represent very few people.

When police MURDER a human being and then, with the help of their union, try to cover up the MURDER, I would definitely say this one specific case says a lot about corruption in unions in general.

The actions of the Fullerton police department and their union are purely evil and as such, cannot be dismissed as a trivial case.

I said that you sounded like someone that benefits from a union. You still sound like someone that benefits from a union.

You said you worked for a union at some point. You most likely will get retirement benefits right? Or maybe your wife works for a state union and you reap the benefits in health care? Many people in California get married just to get free benefits at the expense of the tax payer.

I have no financial motivation for posting what I am trying to express.

 

[Red Dawn]

You sound like someone that benefits from a union. Most unions in California are corrupt. The unions have to be corrupt because the government is corrupt and you have to fight evil with evil. This is very similar to the mafia.

Just look at the corruption occurring in the Fullerton police department.

The police murdered a human being and the union and police department are trying to cover up their crimes.

There are thousands of these stories of corruption.

I've lived in California for 25 years and I have never heard anything good about any of the unions.

Even the state employees joke about how little work they do and they don't care!

The unions will bankrupt this state because of the unfunded pension liabilities.

So how can a union be good at all if they bankrupt the entire state economy?

Unions are sacrificing the majority of the population for the sake of the few unionized workers.

Unions are nothing more that special interest under the guise of freedom and liberty for all!

Unions are the special interest of a few, privileged people. This is exactly how are government is corrupt. Via special interest.

This is what I mean is that the unions fight evil with evil. You fight something that is corrupt for so long you become corrupt as well.

The unions weren't always corrupt but they are now threatening to destroy the economy at large.

No they are nt, that's just you buying into the propaganda of the Coprate Elites and their Lackeys.

 

[Engineer]

I want teachers that will do the job for poverty wages because those teachers will be there because they truly love teaching and subsequently do a much better job.

You can sum up the whole argument from teachers in California in 3 words:

"I LIKE MONEY"

No you don't, you want teachers that will do it for poverty wages because YOU LIKE MONEY and don't want to pay taxes for their pay/benefits.

By the way, why do work and are you doing it free or at poverty wages?

 

[DCal430]

The only way to fire a teacher in California is through a court case. A district it self cannot fire a teacher. You need a judge and another 3rd party to BOTH agree to fire the teacher. If only one agrees then the teacher cannot be fired for any reason. It cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to fire a single teacher. It is rediculous.