A sample of how 'hard' teachers have it

[NeoV]

the only objectionable thing I saw in the very first post was the 'anything in excess of 22.5 hours in a week' counts for extra pay - that didn't make any sense - the rest of that seemed pretty normal/fair to me.

 

[cwjerome]

Having said that, I don't think teacher's salary is too high. It is the pension that is problematic, this goes for every other public workers. Defined benefit pension scheme is the worst invention ever for public workers. This "defined benefit" is often used by politicians to buy votes during elections. And every time the benefit is increased, no corresponding revenue source is identified. Tax payers is left holding the bag for all these political bribery.

As stated earlier, as a teacher I support a move away from old style pensions... they are archaic. I would welcome a more efficient, fair system. Incidentally, the military is doing a serious review of their 20 year retirement scheme and changes are to be expected sooner rather than later that will incorporate a 401k type set up. It's causing a minor uproar, but it's an antiquated system. Once again, as a member of the military I welcome the change. I have never been one to put my own personal desires above the good of the whole.

Here's the problem as it related to the OP. Where is the outrage against the military retirement system, which is arguably even more of a financial burden on government? The answer of course is political gamesmanship and the pawns that chirp away about the latest popular talking points. Teachers and teaching is hottest whipping boy around. I find the OP to be insincere, insulting, and simplistically parroting the latest line... his more recent attempts to soften his image of teachers/teaching and focus more on pensions as bad policy notwithstanding.

 

[Ausm]

My income is at the poverty level and I love what I do.

I make approximately $11,000 a year which I am able to get by on very comfortably with smart purchases and lean living.

I help people. That is what motivates me and gives me some hope that tomorrow will better than today.

I cannot get this satisfaction out of money. I grew up in a real small town where money meant nothing and hard work, empathy, compassion and honesty meant everything.

There is no way in hell you could be a Repuglican..

 

[HeXen]

Bullshit!

That McDonalds job is going to require 45-50 hours a week every week for 50 weeks a year.

Compared to 50 hours a week for 9 months a year.

A 45-50 hour week is pretty much standard for white collar employees these days. So the typical working making similar pay as a teacher is working as many hours a week as a teacher and doesn't get 14 weeks off a year.

your a moron. i made manager at MCD's years ago, i'd much rather do that than be a teacher for the same pay. i didnt make 38k either but whatever. lol.
McD's is easy, the only hard part if you call it that was dealing with customers but if you don't really care about them then its not that hard. just tell them whatever shuts them up. Screw the 14 weeks a year off

 

[ShawnD1]

your a moron. i made manager at MCD's years ago, i'd much rather do that than be a teacher for the same pay. i didnt make 38k either but whatever. lol.
McD's is easy, the only hard part if you call it that was dealing with customers but if you don't really care about them then its not that hard. just tell them whatever shuts them up. Screw the 14 weeks a year off

My best friend was a manager at mcdonalds until he was replaced by an immigrant a month ago...
That job rocked. He was making $50k per year with some health benefits. He worked maybe 4 hours per day and he showed up whenever he wanted. He could be considered on-call since he was the guy to show up and fill spots if there was absolutely nobody else who could come in. He was in charge of purchasing stuff, hiring people, firing people, a little bit of accounting, training, and making sure people don't fuck around. It was almost like babysitting because the employees are always trying to find a reason to not clean the grill properly or not clean the ice out of the freezer.
The job didn't require any official education since my friend doesn't have a high school diploma, but he worked there for about 8 years before he became manager.

 

[mchammer187]

My biggest problem with teachers is there are so few good ones and most act as if they are America's saviors.

When discussing their salaries and benefits they simply lie and make shit up as if we are clueless. I assume this comes from them being teachers and usually 'right' on most things they talk about to others.

When confronted on 'annual raises', they will say that's a lie and in the end admit "well yes, we get a cost of living adjustment...but that is not a raise."

when confronted on 'time in service raises', they will insist that's a lie and only works in the military.

It's no different than the goverenment workers crying about how bad they have it and there really isn't a 'pension' anymore. They use 'private sector' paychecks to show how little they make. Well those 'private sector' examples are usually government contractors which also make more than most real 'private sector' counterparts as well.

I have found in the end, today's people will find the position that pays them what they are worth 80% of the time. The other 20% are either lazy or afraid to speak up / make changes.

Teachers are jumping on this bandwagon because they see potential increase earnings to come from it.

In reality, if they just rose to the occassion and put America back on the map and ended this F school drama, I am sure the 'people' would kick a few extra greenbacks their way. Unfortunately, they have all the excuses:

1) it's the parents
2) it's their friends
3) it's having no budget
4) it's having no time
5) it's because they have unrealistic goals
... ad infinitum

Are you saying parents and friends (environment) arent bigger factors. A teacher can only do so much if the parents do give a shit and the kids themselves don't think they need a good education to succeed.

 

[Fear No Evil]

The only time I feel sorry for them is when the Right attacks them to make political hay. How iwould you feel if your profession was made a boogeyman by one of the Political Parties?Well that's what's happened to Teachers. The only reason why the Republicans are doing it is because Teachers and their Unions usually support the Democrats, the only reason and if the Republicans say different then they are lying as usual.

OF COURSE they support the Democrats. They elect a Democrat, the democrat votes them higher pensions and better benefits.. that gives the teachers more money to donate to the Dems... rinse and repeat.. corruption as its finest, taxpayers can do nothing about it because they don't have all the $$$ of the union to buy off Democrats.

 

[Exterous]

I think you are heavily biased in this. There was probably more to the reason your wife was the one that kept getting fired time after time and got the pay decreases.

You may think that but there was one reason and one reason only: They cut teaching positions. Over several years they gutted the elective programs (art, forgein lang, phys ed, music etc) and increased class sizes to 30+. The teachers that could moved to other positions (forcing those teachers out) did. Low senority teachers (my wife) were SOL. And when you cut teaching positions you leave based on senority. The only reaosn my wife was let go is she was low on the totem pole. Thats how it works - no other way. You can be amazing - you can be a shit teacher. If you don't have senority and they fire people you are gone


ALL teachers at the school got the pay decreases so so your claim of bias has no merit there either

What districts have had verifiable pay freezes and have also had the average salary per teacher go down?

The problem with looking at average salaries is that the teachers with the lowest salaries are the most likely to be cut. The mass teacher layoffs in Michgan are letting go the youngest teachers (and therefore the lowest paid). In any event I am referring to my wife's net, take home pay - which (looking back) is not clear

Here are some articles about the pay freeze and State wide 3% pay cut last year

http://michiganradio.org/post/lansing-teachers-agree-layoffs-benefits-cuts-and-pay-freeze

http://www.argus-press.com/news/com...cle_504de7e4-bea4-11e0-a158-001cc4c002e0.html

http://michiganmessenger.com/37830/teacher-retirement-plan-passed-by-legislature

In order to induce them to retire, the state is offering veteran teachers a paltry increase in the multiplier that determines the size of their pension, which will rise from the current level of 1.5 percent to between 1.55 to 1.6 percent. This will be funded by making teachers who remain contribute an additional 3 percent of their pay towards retiree medical benefits—in other words, by imposing a 3 percent pay cut.

What these usually are for is to get the dead weight to leave under their own accord and then the rest get bumped up.

This is the same as bringing a third person in when there is only enough hours for two full time people. Usually the slacker is the first to just quit.

Except its more along the lines of taking 5 people with full/near full work loads, getting 1 to quit, firing another one and asking the remaining 3 to work overtime constantly

 

[Red Dawn]

OF COURSE they support the Democrats. They elect a Democrat, the democrat votes them higher pensions and better benefits.. that gives the teachers more money to donate to the Dems... rinse and repeat.. corruption as its finest, taxpayers can do nothing about it because they don't have all the $$$ of the union to buy off Democrats.

Where as the Republican Party is too expensive for them so only the Big Corporations and Wall Street Banks can buy off the Republicans who pass laws cutting their taxes, loosening or doing away with necessary regulations and giving them unnecessary entitlements thus really screwing the Taxpayer

 

[sarsipias1234]

As stated earlier, as a teacher I support a move away from old style pensions... they are archaic. I would welcome a more efficient, fair system. Incidentally, the military is doing a serious review of their 20 year retirement scheme and changes are to be expected sooner rather than later that will incorporate a 401k type set up. It's causing a minor uproar, but it's an antiquated system. Once again, as a member of the military I welcome the change. I have never been one to put my own personal desires above the good of the whole.

Here's the problem as it related to the OP. Where is the outrage against the military retirement system, which is arguably even more of a financial burden on government? The answer of course is political gamesmanship and the pawns that chirp away about the latest popular talking points. Teachers and teaching is hottest whipping boy around. I find the OP to be insincere, insulting, and simplistically parroting the latest line... his more recent attempts to soften his image of teachers/teaching and focus more on pensions as bad policy notwithstanding.

Military is different in that you sign your life over to the military. We need the best of the best in military so we need to pay them appropriately. The only problem with our military is the military is way too big! We can easily protect our country with a fraction of the budget we have now simply because our technology is light years ahead of any country. $500 million for one plane is just insane especially when they have had nothing but problems with the fa22 raptor. This is just pure waste.

 

[Harvey]

The only problem with our military is the military is way too big! We can easily protect our country with a fraction of the budget we have now simply because our technology is light years ahead of any country.

What qualifies you as an expert on what constitutes an adequate military force? Have you served in the armed forces?

$500 million for one plane is just insane especially when they have had nothing but problems with the fa22 raptor. This is just pure waste.

What qualifies you as an expert on the cost of military aviation? Have you ever been involved in designing, building, servicing or flying any military aircraft?

 

[Red Dawn]

What qualifies you as an expert on what constitutes an adequate military force? Have you served in the armed forces?



What qualifies you as an expert on the cost of military aviation? Have you ever been involved in designing, building, servicing or flying any military aircraft?

He lived in CA for 24 years and attended Kumbaya U.

 

[Exterous]

$500 million for one plane is just insane especially when they have had nothing but problems with the fa22 raptor. This is just pure waste.

Doesn't seem too bad considering the Boeing Dreamliner 787-9 is like $220 million.

 

[Harvey]

$500 million for one plane is just insane especially when they have had nothing but problems with the fa22 raptor. This is just pure waste.

Doesn't seem too bad considering the Boeing Dreamliner 787-9 is like $220 million.

And that's before you add in weapons systems, combat electronics and everything else required in a piece of military aircraft. Then, there's the fact that the cost of developing any given model of military aircraft has to amortized across a much smaller number of units that will be produced.

I'm still waiting to see what he has to say about his qualifications to make such statements, or at least, to provide some links to documentation to support them.
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[sarsipias1234]

What qualifies you as an expert on what constitutes an adequate military force? Have you served in the armed forces?



What qualifies you as an expert on the cost of military aviation? Have you ever been involved in designing, building, servicing or flying any military aircraft?

Don't need to be an expert of any military to know that we spend too much money on the military. We are not at war. Certain people think we are at war but I think they are paranoid and driven by profit of war. War is the most profitable industry and this profit creates a conflict of interest. War also kills people and should not be influenced by potential financial profit. A lot of the budget is unduly influenced by special interests that profit from war. For example Dick Cheney and his connection to war profits.

Congress says there will be nearly 1 trillion in cuts over the next ten years to the military.

1 trillion out of 7 trillion dollars plan to be cut over the next 10 years.

This is only 14&#37; budget cut.

Our military spending is at the highest since world war 2 yet we are not at war!

And we cannot cut even 14%????

We are at peace so our military spending should be proportional less not the same.

I truly believe we have nothing to fear other than ourselves. We are our own worst enemy.

 

[NeoV]

don't question Harvey, only he is allowed to discuss all things military

we spend more money on our military than the rest of the world, combined

 

[Nebor]

Don't need to be an expert of any military to know that we spend too much money on the military. We are not at war. Certain people think we are at war but I think they are paranoid and driven by profit of war. War is the most profitable industry and this profit creates a conflict of interest. War also kills people and should not be influenced by potential financial profit. A lot of the budget is unduly influenced by special interests that profit from war. For example Dick Cheney and his connection to war profits.

Congress says there will be nearly 1 trillion in cuts over the next ten years to the military.

1 trillion out of 7 trillion dollars plan to be cut over the next 10 years.

This is only 14% budget cut.

Our military spending is at the highest since world war 2 yet we are not at war!

And we cannot cut even 14%????

We are at peace so our military spending should be proportional less not the same.

I see what you're saying... we need to become involved in some broader conflicts to justify our current level of military spending.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Almost 350 replies on a troll thread. That's the most telling thing.

 

[sarsipias1234]

Almost 350 replies on a troll thread. That's the most telling thing.

Ogres have threads too!

 

[Nebor]

$500 million for one plane is just insane especially when they have had nothing but problems with the fa22 raptor. This is just pure waste.

F22's cost ~$140 million each.

 

[HAL9000]

My sister in-law is a teacher as is her sister and many of their friends.

But feel free to do the math and show me how a teacher working 187 days a year does more work than a full time non-teacher working 235 days a year.

Hell, I'll do it for you.

Regular stiff: 2 weeks vacation, 10 paid holidays, 5 sick days. That is 25 days off a year or 235 working days a year.

235x8= 1,880 hours a year.

Teacher 187 days a year.
1,800/187 = 10 hours a day every day for the entire school year to equal same amount of work hours as typical 40 hours a week person.

Err what? Try 4 weeks holiday minimum....

 

[Balt]

Err what? Try 4 weeks holiday minimum....

In Europe you'll get a 4 week holiday minimum, yeah. Not so in the states. Usually you'll start at 2 weeks and if you stick around for a few years you'll eventually get more. :-/

 

[HAL9000]

In Europe you'll get a 4 week holiday minimum, yeah. Not so in the states. Usually you'll start at 2 weeks and if you stick around for a few years you'll eventually get more. :-/

Wow. That sucks! How can you live on two weeks holiday?! The vast majority of people I know get 6 weeks minimum, in the UK it's a legal requirement that you get at least 28 days if you work 5 days a week all year.

 

[Nebor]

Wow. That sucks! How can you live on two weeks holiday?!

It's tough, roughly 630,000 Americans die from it every year. :\

Vacation days are considered perks for most Americans. You earn more the longer you work for a specific company, or you bargain for them when you're switching jobs.

 

[HAL9000]

It's tough, roughly 630,000 Americans die from it every year. :\

Vacation days are considered perks for most Americans. You earn more the longer you work for a specific company, or you bargain for them when you're switching jobs.

Wow that's insanity, you guys must take a lot of days off sick.