ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,494
- 16,973
- 136
They most likely also don’t have social media and aren’t exposed to propaganda, hate, divisiveness, and a flood of bs that come with it.
They most likely also don’t have social media and aren’t exposed to propaganda, hate, divisiveness, and a flood of bs that come with it.
I think the more likely answer is the best minds of a generation were used to make us mad.
You are talking about a person whose hidden self loathing expressed as a need great about himself via sexual conquest while staying true to his real feelings by doing something profoundly taboo in our culture, cheating on his wife. He did not engage in sexual assault but just engaged in slander. You’re not better morally than Clinton, bearer of false witness.
Don’t mind me. Just saw a pulpit there and felt like doing some roll playing. Just kidding………..
You two need to tell me how you managed to make those claims. Why didn’t you fall victim to all of that? How is it that one person falls victim to mind control and another does not? What is the touchstone that reveals a heart of gold. What makes one person a miner and another empty of love.
Does it not have to be because somewhere there is meaning that is real? Do you really think that those who seek and find can go back to darkness? Who can’t discriminate between joy and misery? If a person can be perverted by mind control there must be a state that can be free of it ? What would it look like? Is there not just one way to know?
I don’t disagree with anything either of you said. I do believe however that the best minds and world class deceivers of all kinds belong to people who have no idea what life can be and are best at misery, that they are servants of malcontent and are unaware they hate themselves for having been twisted first and then committed to it.
The issue for me is that I am a product of a sick culture and I must not fall for the notion that I am free from the effects of that fact. When I look for the problem out there I need only look within.
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,494
- 16,973
- 136
I have almost fallen victim to it. For one I don’t consume social media like most people. I have one social media account that I use for primarily snowboarding content with the occasional golf and mountain biking content and I only “like” snowboard content. So my algorithm is pretty basic. However I still get blatant propaganda posts and I always check the comments to see if anyone has done any critical analysis of the claims. But that doesn’t explain why I haven’t been turned into a zombie.
For that I think I’d have to go back to 9/11 2001 and I watched the Bush admin craft a bs narrative about Iraq, despite experts telling us that bin Laden and saddam aren’t two characters that would be supporting each other. This led me to question what we are told. Even still that doesn’t explain why I haven’t succumbed to the propaganda we face.
Move forward to Hillary’s run for presidency and the email scandal. When it came out I created a post about it and I had fallen for the republicans propaganda. Luckily I was fact checked by a few here and I verified their claims myself (it was easier to do back then because journalistic integrity was much more important). From that I realized that I am not immune to falling for propaganda. Which means I had to be even more diligent in my fact checking. That being said, at some point in my life I learned that it was better to know the truth than to be right. I learned that facts are just facts and being wrong is ok, no one is perfect, no ideology, religion, is perfect and I’d rather change my opinion when I learn new information instead of believing I’m right even more.
So now, not only will I fact check claims coming from the right, I’ll fact check the left as well and it’s not because of “both sides” bs but because if my beliefs or supported policies are as good as I think they are then they should be able to hold up to scrutiny and if they can’t hold up, it’s ok to admit being wrong and adjust. It’s how science works and science has consistently improved over time so why can’t I? Fun fact, I’m an independent, registered with no party affiliation and it’s not because both sides suck or I agree/disagree with one more than the other. It’s because I understand that humans have a herd mentality and just like a sports fanatic can ignore the faults of their teams players so can people who join political parties. I’m independent so I can lessen the chances of that happening.
I am no smarter or immune to anything anyone else is susceptible to, I am not special, I am human. If there is anything I have learned about humans it’s that we are stupid creatures individually but collectively we are pretty freaken amazing. Even the smartest person is dumb/ignorant of something someone else is knowledgeable of.
That’s my guess anyway.
From watching Korean TV I have learned the expression, 'Nice Job' quite popularly said.
I don't think what I am saying is anything new but rather in fact quite ancient. But here is an older expression of some of the things I feel:
getpocket.com
Anne Gilchrist on Our Greatest Obstacle to Happiness
“One of the hardest things to make a child understand is, that down underneath your feet, if you go far enough, you come to blue sky and stars again; that there really is no ‘down.‘”
But that is the point. When you go on your fortune cookie self hatred rants. Not everyone one grew up in complete negative environments. The narrow minded of Americans not being able to see many cultures actually have healthy living environments. The blanket statements you believe actually don’t apply to most.
Do you know the story of the princess and the pea. It is an allegorical tale that is there to address your assumptions, to put a bump in the way of autonomic thinking. I have told you over and over that the truth is hidden by a hidden motivation within you that will protect you from taking it seriously as the reflexive assumption of unlikelihood.
It is easy to assure me that you are essentially problem free because you live in the world of Plato’s cave watching shadows dancing on the wall. There is a famous film, I have not seen it and do not know its name, about a baseball player who loses it during a game and is hauled away in a straight jacket. Someone comments that the pressure his father put on him is the reason he cracked and he starts screaming, “Without my Father, I wouldn’t be where I am today.”
The problem is that the more you develop the intellect, the more you rely on left brain linear thinking, the easier it becomes to distance yourself from feeling. To get to what you feel, to relive traumatic events can be a very difficult task, one that requires a knowledgeable therapist, few of which exist, and an intention you dive into oneself.
OK, so it seems unlikely that we all hate ourselves, but what if it were just your luck it were true. Ask yourself how you react to the incapacity of conservatives to see how they fuck themselves by denial of how they really feel, expressing their contempt not at themselves for so called deployable behavior, but projecting it out on others, and compare that to how you react to the possibility you do the same at the thought you might hate yourself.
The simple answer to why people are defensive is that they are protecting themselves from some kind of unpleasantness, one they already feel applies and must be denied. Otherwise why bother.
hal2kilo
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2009
- 26,015
- 12,260
- 136
This is the only forum that I participate in, well, except for the ECO Diesel forum and a cold fusion forum that I just lurk, but it's not politics.
I made good bank on Facebook, got out before the pandemic hit, would never sign up for that shit. Saw it go below $100 a share and had to smack myself several times to not put about 50K back in because THIS IS WHAT IS DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me address this aspect of your post. "Not everyone grew up in a complete negative environment."
In my opinion I had a superior childhood. I had loving non-violent parents at that time very liberal parents. My father was smart talented and liberal, a Mason and a Naval officer. My mother was an information sop, read everything, doted on me, but went only to the 8th grade. My father never went to college. I never knew poverty or fear, lived is great neighborhoods. My Father was gone most of my early years and my Mom did her thing and I was free to do whatever I wanted. I grew up wild, I like to say. Me, my friends, could bike everywhere. Much of the environment within a bike ride was natural and I lived by the beach. I was profoundly free of adult supervision.
But there were many many problems and family issues too, and I believe because I had such joy in my childhood experiences the downs were to me maybe more unsettling that for others not so fortunate. I do not know.
But I began searching for something I had no idea what by my sophomore year in in high school. I went to a fantastically liberal high school and had real thinkers for English teachers who demanded reading and essays on very high class literature. I had to read books and then answer fabulously exciting questions about them. I went from an incoherent idiot struggling with how to express things I felt in words to being able to do so with ease.
I became a seeker of something like 'What is the Matrix'. I chose the red pill and got flushed into the real world and my way out was delivered by Zen. I had a moment of awakening and the end of existential suffering. In a flash I knew everything as the collapse of all questions. Everything is so simple.
Then I met a man who was far far beyond me in that he lived everyday in a place I had glimpsed for only a second, someone who had lived a long happy and successful life. Owing to events in his life he too was driven by the question, what motivates people, say to get divorced when they have a perfect marriage, as his wife did to him.
He was a psychologist and had a patient who was profoundly depressed but suddenly all that changed when she fell in love. Now she was on top of the world. Then she showed up relapsed and in a state of deep depression having dumped her boyfriend. While deep into her emotions, a place he said she would be unable to lie, he asked her why she dumped him. She answered, "He loves me the dope."
You understand this, I hope. There had to be something wrong with anybody who loved her because she felt unworthy of being loved. Could such an impossible thing be true also of his ex-wife. Had she somehow felt the same. Then he began to wonder if it was true of himself.
He told me that he had probably undergone more psychoanalysis himself that anybody else in the world. He said he would drive to secluded settings and go into himself. He discovered he felt the same thing, that he was the worst in the world and he relived his feelings back to 6 month of age. From the data he had via that, and analysis of how absurd such feelings had to be, he was able to discover that being put down as a child is how this happens to us, that the pain is unbearable and that w we repress the memories to survive.
I remember when I first began to relive my past and the only words I could say were I don't believe it, I don't believe it, I don't believe I feel this way, in other words I now knew that I did. The last thing on earth we want to know is how we really feel especially as long as things are OK. But we can't know the hour or the day when a bump in the road might lead down the rabbit hole. There are glitches in the matrix, so to speak.
Curiosity or desperation can lead one to sail off the edge of the world. What sails off the edge and returns, comes back, not of this world.
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