A Muslim's perspective

[Infohawk]

thereligionofpeace owner-


http://www.chasingevil.org/2008/10/update-on-glen-reinsford.html

And then follow the links...

That's a post to a blog... where's the evidence that it actually contains hate? See, the thing is you could just actually link to the site...

 

[charrison]

If the mosque is not built to cater to that sensitivity, it goes on to show that the Muslim community is responsible for 9/11. Any reasonable person can note this.

So what has the muslim community in general done to rid itself of radicals. From the sideline it appears not much as those radicals are feared. IF there was real effort of the muslim community to police itself, there would not be much issue.

The intent of the mosque is absolutety not as a "Victory Mosque". I and every other Muslim member who visits that will (most hopefully) categorically deny that. That suggestion itself is ludicrous, because as Americans, there is nothing to feel victorious about.

That may not be its intent, but a lot people find it down right insulting. You can build it, but it does mean people have to like it or find it not offensive.

The analogy to the burning of the Quran is false. Burning the Quran is a direct affront to all Muslims. The building of the mosque is only an affront to those who hold - falsely - that Islam is responsible for 9/11.

Did you ever consider that a mosque on ground zero is direct affront to people of this country? And if Islam is not responsable, why were all the perps muslim? Why does the muslim community continue to allow these radicals to exist?

I am actively engaging in a discussion with members here. I have stated that if there is really a valid reason why the mosque should move, please convince me. I am a reasonable adult. I will definitely speak with the builders personally to put forth a valid viewpoint.

The muslim community if they are seeking goodwill they should move it. If they insist on putting it where a large majority find it offensive, there will only be problems down the road. Respect is a two way street.

Believe me, most of you against the mosque just sit, watch biased news outlets and form opinions. We, the Muslims are the ones who actually suffer the media and people circus every Friday after worship. Ridiculous really. I prayed there for months without issue, and suddenly its like walking into a bad SnL skit.

Nice, blame the media and the sheeple population if anyone has an opinion different than yours. So open minded.

 

[routan]

Absolutely. On the other side of the coin, you can inflame them all you want too.



That is kinda the point. You came here to enjoy the freedoms we enjoy in this country but there is no such thing as a perfect deal. In order for you and I to continue enjoying those freedoms we must both accept the good AND the bad that comes from those freedoms. To do anything else simply erodes those freedoms that you came here for. You are free to build your Mosque and you are free to pray as you wish to whom you wish, and I will support YOUR freedom to do so in any way necessary. If the .gov ever told you that you could not pray to Allah I would stand up with you, and I believe the vast majority of Americans would join us, and fight to regain your freedom. I would do that even though I do not believe in your God, matter of fact I do not believe in any god.

At the same time, I will support the very same freedom that the asshole displayed yesterday. You don't have to agree with his actions but you, if you truly believe in our freedoms, should support his right to do so.

And your last paragraph is nonsense. Muslims have not been made slaves in the US, they have not been put into "camps" or anything remotely close to it. People in the United States might disagree with you and do things you don't like but that is what freedom is. When the government starts burning Korans or putting Muslims in camps or making Muslims property then you would have a valid comparison. You are actually just comparing your freedoms with the freedoms of others.

Darwin333, the onus is not on the "right", but on the decency of doing that act. An act based on hate is outright indecent, the issue of being it lawful comes next. I support his right to do so as a believer of the freedoms granted to all Americans, but I do not support the act in itself as a decent person.

While I did not make any comparison to past American excesses, only stated that America has a history and let us all not tread that part, let us consider how Muslims are viewed with suspicion everywhere. When I grew a beard, I was patted down by my work's security. haha.

 

[routan]

If the 9/11 terrorists didn't speak for all Muslims, why do you get to speak for all of them?

I do not. I only speak on the intent of the mosque, which comes from personal interactions with the builders and being involved in the construction. 🙂

 

[charrison]

While I did not make any comparison to past American excesses, only stated that America has a history and let us all not tread that part, let us consider how Muslims are viewed with suspicion everywhere. When I grew a beard, I was patted down by my work's security. haha.

Ask yourself, why are muslims looked at with suspicion? Answer that and you have answered your question. Radical Islam is real and the muslim community is not policing itself. And they get pretty ticked off when someone else does the policing as well.

 

[Infohawk]

I do not. I only speak on the intent of the mosque, which comes from personal interactions with the builders and being involved in the construction. 🙂

Completely unverifiable and dubious since there is no construction. And if you are associated with the Mosque we should all be afraid as you have some barbaric views...

 

[JEDIYoda]

I am glad to respond to your questions, as this thread is about a Muslim's perspective.

Honor killings is an unfortunate (and sick) tradition practiced in certain parts of the world. It is NOT an Islamic teaching, tradition or custom in any manner. Honor killings are practiced signicantly in the Indian sub-continent and it part of the culture and traditions of that region.

To be honest, I have no support or no non-support for Hamas. They are not representative of Islam. As a political party, I wish them success in their political endeavors, making life better for Palestinians and contributing to peace in the Middle East. Being noted as a terrorist organization by many governments, I hope they take a chapter out of IRA's book and cease activities that result in deaths of innocent people.

http://www.meforum.org/2067/are-honor-killings-simply-domestic-violence

Conflict of Cultural Moralities
The problem the West faces is complex. Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus view honor and morality as a collective family matter. Rights are collective, not individual. Family, clan, and tribal rights supplant individual human rights.[21]

Religious education may also be necessary. According to this study, 90 percent of honor murders in the West are committed by Muslims against Muslims. The perpetrators may interpret the Qur'an and Islam incorrectly, either for malicious reasons or simply because they are ignorant of more tolerant Muslim exegesis or conflate local customs with religion.

I agree with you in part....I would say that in the United states and other non - muslim countries honor killings are not a muslim teaching as you said!

The problem is that in Muslim countries what matters is that those who are seemingly in control interpret things differently.

That`s the same with Christianity and the jewish religion also. It`s not just Islam. Those in charge often mis-interpret things.

Nice first post on these boards..or shall we say in P&N!!

 

[Freshgeardude]

I havent read most of this thread, just here and there, and i am not sure if this has been covered, but

the same law that protects a mosque from being built anywhere in the US protects a person that wants to burn the koran.

The same way you find burning of the koran insulting is just the same as a mosque on or near ground zero.

Both instances, they are legally protected under the law, but it is insulting to commit the acts.

why should we allow a mosque and show "tolerance" if you cant show "tolerance" of a person exercising their right to burn the koran?

its the same exact right. just because it flips heads, you feel we should bend backwards to cater to your liking.

stop being a hypocrite.

 

[charrison]

why should we allow a mosque and show "tolerance" if you cant show "tolerance" of a person exercising their right to burn the koran?


stop being a hypocrite.

/thread

 

[routan]

So what has the muslim community in general done to rid itself of radicals. From the sideline it appears not much as those radicals are feared. IF there was real effort of the muslim community to police itself, there would not be much issue.




That may not be its intent, but a lot people find it down right insulting. You can build it, but it does mean people have to like it or find it not offensive.




Did you ever consider that a mosque on ground zero is direct affront to people of this country? And if Islam is not responsable, why were all the perps muslim? Why does the muslim community continue to allow these radicals to exist?




The muslim community if they are seeking goodwill they should move it. If they insist on putting it where a large majority find it offensive, there will only be problems down the road. Respect is a two way street.



Nice, blame the media and the sheeple population if anyone has an opinion different than yours. So open minded.

charrison, I have addressed everything you wrote about. But I will entertain you with a response just to you.

What would you have the Muslim community do to police mad men? The American police/security system failed to stop the 12 who committed 9/11. How should we as a community do better? I am more than open to suggestions. But I will disregard any suggestion that puts me in direct conflict with these mad men. I value my life, and dont want to be a victim of a suicide bomb.

Why do a lot of people find in insulting? Because they think Islam is responsible for 9/11? If so, the people are wrong, and I would encourage them to not ascribe the action of 12 terrorists to Islam. These people may have been Muslims, but they also "existed" in the United States. Why are ALL Muslims and only Muslims responsible for their actions?

Again, for the umpteenth time, what suggestion do you have on the new location of the mosque? Please note that another mosque existed on Warren Street for YEARS before the plans for this mosque.

The media and circus do not have a different opinion. There are quite a number of people supporting the mosque standing outside on Fridays. However, the entire frenzy at 2pm Friday is a circus. Thats what I was saying.

 

[routan]

http://www.meforum.org/2067/are-honor-killings-simply-domestic-violence

Conflict of Cultural Moralities
The problem the West faces is complex. Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus view honor and morality as a collective family matter. Rights are collective, not individual. Family, clan, and tribal rights supplant individual human rights.[21]

Religious education may also be necessary. According to this study, 90 percent of honor murders in the West are committed by Muslims against Muslims. The perpetrators may interpret the Qur'an and Islam incorrectly, either for malicious reasons or simply because they are ignorant of more tolerant Muslim exegesis or conflate local customs with religion.

I agree with you in part....I would say that in the United states and other non - muslim countries honor killings are not a muslim teaching as you said!

The problem is that in Muslim countries what matters is that those who are seemingly in control interpret things differently.

That`s the same with Christianity and the jewish religion also. It`s not just Islam. Those in charge often mis-interpret things.

Nice first post on these boards..or shall we say in P&N!!

Wholeheartedly agree on the bolded part.

Thank you also for realizing that honor killings is not part of Islam. I do hope that this practice stops, in Muslim countries and the West. 🙂

 

[tinker2141]

Wholeheartedly agree on the bolded part.

Thank you also for realizing that honor killings is not part of Islam. I do hope that this practice stops, in Muslim countries and the West. 🙂

Shocking you want religious education. I guess they will tell us infidels all about the guiding light of Islam. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[routan]

I havent read most of this thread, just here and there, and i am not sure if this has been covered, but

the same law that protects a mosque from being built anywhere in the US protects a person that wants to burn the koran.

The same way you find burning of the koran insulting is just the same as a mosque on or near ground zero.

Both instances, they are legally protected under the law, but it is insulting to commit the acts.

why should we allow a mosque and show "tolerance" if you cant show "tolerance" of a person exercising their right to burn the koran?

its the same exact right. just because it flips heads, you feel we should bend backwards to cater to your liking.

stop being a hypocrite.

Freshgeardude, thank you for your post. I have addressed the contents numerous times.

But because you called me a hypocrite, I would like to point out that the same people who call for being sensitive and relocating the mosque also wholeheartedly support buring of the Quran, with complete disrespect to the sensitivity of the Muslims. If I am a hypocrite, what term would fit these people? 🙂

 

[routan]

Shocking you want religious education. I guess they will tell us infidels all about the guiding light of Islam. Thanks but no thanks.

Quite an unbelievably stupid post and one from an evidently bigoted person. Both the quoted poster (I hope) and myself were talking about Religious Education for Muslims - to make them aware that practices such as honor killings are contrary to teachings of Islam.

 

[charrison]

charrison, I have addressed everything you wrote about. But I will entertain you with a response just to you.

What would you have the Muslim community do to police mad men? The American police/security system failed to stop the 12 who committed 9/11. How should we as a community do better? I am more than open to suggestions. But I will disregard any suggestion that puts me in direct conflict with these mad men. I value my life, and dont want to be a victim of a suicide bomb.

How about this. Muslims need to realize that radical islam exists. And until it is under control, you are going to be profiled. It sucks but you are going to have live with it until the problem is solved. Rather than acting insulted by profiling, man up and do something about it. The muslim community needs to stop acting like it is not their problem and stop getting offended people do try do something about it. It really is that simple.

Why do a lot of people find in insulting? Because they think Islam is responsible for 9/11? If so, the people are wrong, and I would encourage them to not ascribe the action of 12 terrorists to Islam. These people may have been Muslims, but they also "existed" in the United States. Why are ALL Muslims and only Muslims responsible for their actions?

Why do people get offended by the burning of book? It just a book. You can get a new one. It is not that big of deal.

Again, for the umpteenth time, what suggestion do you have on the new location of the mosque? Please note that another mosque existed on Warren Street for YEARS before the plans for this mosque.

Somewhere else that general population finds less offensive. You can build it there, but you cant expect everyone to be happy about it. Looks like you cant expect many people to be happy about it. Respect goes both ways.

The media and circus do not have a different opinion. There are quite a number of people supporting the mosque standing outside on Fridays. However, the entire frenzy at 2pm Friday is a circus. Thats what I was saying.

But it appears there is a majority in this country that find the idea of mosque there offensive. Just as offensive as you find koran burning. That is reality.

 

[routan]

How about this. Muslims need to realize that radical islam exists. And until it is under control, you are going to be profiled. It sucks but you are going to have live with it until the problem is solved. Rather than acting insulted by profiling, man up and do something about it. The muslim community needs to stop acting like it is not their problem and stop getting offended people do try do something about it. It really is that simple.

Why do people get offended by the burning of book? It just a book. You can get a new one. It is not that big of deal.

Somewhere else that general population finds less offensive. You can build it there, but you cant expect everyone to be happy about it. Looks like you cant expect many people to be happy about it. Respect goes both ways.

But it appears there is a majority in this country that find the idea of mosque there offensive. Just as offensive as you find koran burning. That is reality.

charrison, thank you for your post. You added nothing new or of value, addressed nothing I said and just repeated the same things again. I can repeat the same replies but then it'd be like a hamster on a wheel. 🙂

 

[OCGuy]

Is that a Koran I smell burning?

 

[charrison]

charrison, thank you for your post. You added nothing new or of value, addressed nothing I said and just repeated the same things again. I can repeat the same replies but then it'd be like a hamster on a wheel. 🙂

As long as you keep the "Islam is always right" and nothing we do offends anyone else, you are going to have problems. Enjoy that hamster wheel.

 

[Infohawk]

Quite an unbelievably stupid post and one from an evidently bigoted person. Both the quoted poster (I hope) and myself were talking about Religious Education for Muslims - to make them aware that practices such as honor killings are contrary to teachings of Islam.

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Which Quran is that from?

 

[Freshgeardude]

Freshgeardude, thank you for your post. I have addressed the contents numerous times.

But because you called me a hypocrite, I would like to point out that the same people who call for being sensitive and relocating the mosque also wholeheartedly support buring of the Quran, with complete disrespect to the sensitivity of the Muslims. If I am a hypocrite, what term would fit these people? 🙂

wait wait wait.

so you are saying 71% of the United States population, aprox 220,266,195 people support the burning of the koran?

surely you have proof to support such a radical claim.

Sure, some of that 220.3 million support the koran burining, but not all of them.

secondly, This WHOLE issue has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the law.

71% of the population isnt denying the law. 71% are saying it is INSULTING to have the mosque there.

There is a VERY CLEAR difference here.

I for example am proud to live in a country that has laws to protect religion, but do not obviously support the mosque being built there.

Lets not forget where the name CORDOBA comes from.

Cordoba House" is a deliberately insulting term. It refers to Cordoba, Spain–the capital of Muslim conquerors, who symbolized their victory over the Christian Spaniards by transforming a church there into the world's third-largest mosque complex... every Islamist in the world recognizes Cordoba as a symbol of Islamic conquest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51#Politicians


You want to build something named after a conquest of your enemies on a territory where YOUR extremists killed thousands.


How about I call a Mass Koran burning event a Splash. it is known around the world as such, but then I say:

"Hey, we are going to make a splash zone right here, but no everyone this is to show our tolerance of islam."



Also, I have to make note here, that you keep talking about warren street mosque. and how its a ground zero mosque etc.

two differences here.

warren street is a full 2 blocks further away than this proposed mosque AND is less obvious (in the sense of how big it is etc)

the proposed mosque is 100 million dollar project to makea huge building while the other was in a conspicuous location.

I dont hear the leaders of this small mosque calling for shariah law in the US or supporting hamas, two things this imam is calling for.

 

[routan]

Which Quran is that from?

lol. You respond to a post about honor killings with a quote from the Quran that says NOTHING about honor killings? You are a smart, smart person.

 

[Infohawk]

lol. You respond to a post about honor killings with a quote from the Quran that says NOTHING about honor killings? You are a smart, smart person.

So that quote about beating woman is from the Quran? You just owned yourself.

 

[cubby1223]

Wow, this thread keeps going from bad to worse...

I'm staying out of this 😀

 

[routan]

wait wait wait.

so you are saying 71% of the United States population, aprox 220,266,195 people support the burning of the koran?

surely you have proof to support such a radical claim.

Sure, some of that 220.3 million support the koran burining, but not all of them.

secondly, This WHOLE issue has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the law.

71% of the population isnt denying the law. 71% are saying it is INSULTING to have the mosque there.

There is a VERY CLEAR difference here.

I for example am proud to live in a country that has laws to protect religion, but do not obviously support the mosque being built there.

Lets not forget where the name CORDOBA comes from.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51#Politicians


You want to build something named after a conquest of your enemies on a territory where YOUR extremists killed thousands.


How about I call a Mass Koran burning event a Splash. it is known around the world as such, but then I say:

"Hey, we are going to make a splash zone right here, but no everyone this is to show our tolerance of islam."



Also, I have to make note here, that you keep talking about warren street mosque. and how its a ground zero mosque etc.

two differences here.

warren street is a full 2 blocks further away than this proposed mosque AND is less obvious (in the sense of how big it is etc)

the proposed mosque is 100 million dollar project to makea huge building while the other was in a conspicuous location.

I dont hear the leaders of this small mosque calling for shariah law in the US or supporting hamas, two things this imam is calling for.

You do realize that the mosque is called Park51, dont you? 🙂

You also do realize that the poll does not sample the ENTIRE US population? Anyways, my comment addressed the people on this forum.

I already addressed Imam Faisal in my original post.

I would invite you to visit Lower Manhattan. Its a small island. Park Place is 2 blocks away from WTC, Warren Street is 4 blocks away.

Also, I can attest from personal experience that Masjid Manhattan at Warren Street would get so crowded on Fridays, the street would be shut down to host Muslims praying on the street. Not that conspicuous I would think.

 

[routan]

So that quote about beating woman is from the Quran? You just owned yourself.

lol. Yes Infohawk, I got owned. I will not take your bait. Good luck 🙂