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A Muslim's perspective

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Yup, lot's of times..

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/07/exposing-david-wood-of-mosques-and-men-pt-2/

Exposing David Wood: Of Mosques and Men, Pt. 2

"Exposing David Wood"?? LOL, ois that the best response you got, attacking the messenger??

Do you think that since he doesn't like Muslims it somehow negates the points he made? Speaking of exposing, when are you finally coming "out of the closet" and admiting your a muslim instead of denying it? Your attempted rebuttal with such a piss poor link has made that fact painfully obvious.
 
Amazing how the voices of hated and xenophobia always somehow manage to crush what could have been an interesting discussion.
 
"Exposing David Wood"?? LOL, ois that the best response you got, attacking the messenger??

Do you think that since he doesn't like Muslims it somehow negates the points he made? Speaking of exposing, when are you finally coming "out of the closet" and admiting your a muslim instead of denying it? Your attempted rebuttal with such a piss poor link has made that fact painfully obvious.

Wow, that was a FAIL of epic proportions.

- wolf
 
Hadith are collections of apocryphal sayings of Muhammed. There are literally hundreds of hadith and multiple translations of most, no one can really know them all. There are six or seven major hadith, I forget. Hadith are mostly used by clerics to interpret the will of Allah as reflected by Muhammed; different sects place different amounts of emphasis on each major hadith, so the hadith, and the post-Muhammed clerics who compiled them, are what define the various sects. Not many Muslims are actually familiar with a large number of them, and then usually only those considered important to their particular sect, so it's not unusual for Muslims to know little or nothing of hadith. Also they tend to place Muhammed in a light not flattering by modern standards - Muhammed is in no wise a man to compare with Jesus or Moses or Buddha, but is thoroughly a man of his times, violent and self-serving as any - so it's not something most Islamic clerics really push their wards to read unless they want radicalized followers. Most probably prefer to push Muhammed through the Quran, which casts him a better light. Note though that the hadith are used to form Islamic law - that is, to determine the proper interpretation and limits of Sharia.

Routan, it's very difficult to provide specific examples as I largely gave up visiting sites in Islamic countries a couple years ago. I used to frequent many political and military sites in Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, Iran and Russia, but had to give them up because I kept getting nasty viruses with which my anti-virus software was not yet familiar. But I'll give you this.

This is a quote from Abdul Rauf in Al-Ghad (Jordan) as translated by Walid Shoebat:
"People asked me right after the 9/11 attack as to why do movements with political agendas carry [Islamic] religious names? Why call it ‘Muslim Brotherhood’ or ‘Hezbollah (Party of Allah)’ or ‘Hamas’ or ‘Islamic Resistance Movement’? I answer them this—that the trend towards Islamic law and justice begins in religious movements,because secularism had failed to deliver what the Muslim wants, which is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

In America Rauf has limited himself to refusing to call out these groups as terrorist organizations, saying only "it's complicated." However in Arabic he refers to them as "the trend towards Islamic law and justice."

Walid Shoebat is an ex-PLO terrorist who, to make amends, now makes his living speaking out against terrorism and exposing those who give aid and comfort to terrorist organizations. http://shoebat.com/

If you want to see for yourself what Islamic leaders are saying for domestic consumption, try these sites, but remember - you are warned. Viruses in these countries are often not yet defined and protected against in Western countries. I long ago deleted the worst though, these are relatively safe. If you read Arabic or Farsi, look for those news sites as the English versions are often sanitized. If not, you'll have to decide for yourself whose translations you believe.
http://english.aljazeera.net/
http://www.irna.ir/?LANG=EN&PART=_HOME&TYPE=HP
http://www.jpost.com/
http://paktribune.com/index.shtml

werepossum, most what you said about Hadiths is incorrect. And most of what is not incorrect is quite a subjective opinion you have made. I would delve into that subject, but that would require a whole different thread to learn more about Islam.

As for the quote you provided, the onus was on the naming convention of the movements, and in fact, the quote has to do more with the emphasis on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than the naming conventions. I would like some better substantiation of where English and non-English comments about the same subject are different.

Lastly, the information you provided is more like propaganda than anything else. Mentioning resources Al-Jazeera and PakTribune is like saying Fox is bias free. 🙂
 
"Exposing David Wood"?? LOL, ois that the best response you got, attacking the messenger??
Do you think that since he doesn't like Muslims it somehow negates the points he made?

You should read the whole article.

Speaking of exposing, when are you finally coming "out of the closet" and admiting your a muslim instead of denying it? Your attempted rebuttal with such a piss poor link has made that fact painfully obvious.

He's defending them, isn't he, what else do you need to know?

LOL
You have such a simple mind. It does explain a lot of your posts though.
Would a pic of me having a beer and chowing down on some bacon help you?
 
You should read the whole article.





LOL
You have such a simple mind. It does explain a lot of your posts though.
Would a pic of me having a beer and chowing down on some bacon help you?

Actually anybody can post a picture, my mind isn't that simple.

You yourself indicated to me once a long time ago that you were Muslim. I had a different user name then. I abandoned that account long ago and never posted here for some timeafter that. That account died in the changeover.

You quit posting here for quite a while also, at least in P&N.

So what ever happened to Palehorse? I haven't seen him here for a while now either?
 
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From my very limited knowledge I would at least have to say the Militant part could be considered terrorist.

It is pretty interesting to go through the list and see how countries differ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations

For instance only Australia and the US consider al-Qaeda in Iraq a terrorists org.
About what percentage of Hamas do you considered to be militant?

Speaking of interesting...I thought this was also interesting...how about you?

http://www.instmed.org/imed/2010/09/100000-children-attend-hamas-indoctrination-summer-camp-.html
100,000 Children Attend Hamas Indoctrination Summer Camp
ShowImage.ashx


Hamas summer camps continued to gain strength this past summer as about 100,000 children underwent radical anti-Israel indoctrination by the terror group which also attacked United Nations camps, its main competition, according to a report released on Tuesday by the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center.

According to the report, more than 100,000 children and teenagers participated in the Hamas camps which included paramilitary training and military parades. The Islamic Jihad terrorist organization also opened 51 different summer camps for over 10,000 children.
 
I don't go to church, but I think you should visit a mosque.

A mosque? Hell, I don't even like to go to Catholic churches. About he only thing that gets me in a church anymore is a funeral or a wedding. Going to a mosque where I wouldn't know a soul would feel even creepier.
 
Actually anybody can post a picture, my mind isn't that simple.

You yourself indicated to me once a long time ago that you were Muslim. I had a different user name then. I abandoned that account long ago and never posted here for some timeafter that. That account died in the changeover.

You quit posting here for quite a while also, at least in P&N.

So what ever happened to Palehorse? I haven't seen him here for a while now either?

I indicated to you I was Muslim? I have no idea what you are talking about.
I've never quit posting here, I'm just posting a lot more lately.
I see palehorse come and go once in a while.
I guess your going to believe I'm Muslim, ain't nothing I can do about it.
 
Amazing how the voices of hated and xenophobia always somehow manage to crush what could have been an interesting discussion.

Carmen813, the worst thing you could possibly do is stop participating on account of the aforementioned voices.

Where there are voices of hatred and xenophobia, there should also be voices of reason. Please play your part.
 
A mosque? Hell, I don't even like to go to Catholic churches. About he only thing that gets me in a church anymore is a funeral or a wedding. Going to a mosque where I wouldn't know a soul would feel even creepier.

It may be creepy for you, but your going to learn a lot more then reading Jihadwatch all day.
 
It may be creepy for you, but your going to learn a lot more then reading Jihadwatch all day.

Jihadwatch? When I want biased news I come here to P&N, it never fails to deliver. Hell, I don't even watch FOX news.

I will say that the fact that Muslims insist on building a "community center" in the shadow of the former WTC answered a lot of questions for me. You might say it was the straw that broke the camels back on that issue. Mark my words, the percussions over that has even started yet

Religion of Peace FTW!!
 
Jihadwatch? When I want biased news I come here to P&N, it never fails to deliver. Hell, I don't even watch FOX news.

I will say that the fact that Muslims insist on building a "community center" in the shadow of the former WTC answered a lot of questions for me. You might say it was the straw that broke the camels back on that issue. Mark my words, the percussions over that has even started yet

Religion of Peace FTW!!

And that Christians hate the soldiers so much that they tell their relatives at the funerals that they deseved it just shows us how the US thinks (since most of the US is Christian and a small group of Christians did something i do believe i have the right to condemn the US entirely for hating their troops, right?)

You have to realise that if they gave this up now it would be, to them, as saying that ok, we were responsible for 9/11 so we won't build there.

You do realise that acceptance of blame is the only thing that could change their location, because if not for that, there would be no need?

Or don't you EVER think?
 
werepossum, most what you said about Hadiths is incorrect. And most of what is not incorrect is quite a subjective opinion you have made. I would delve into that subject, but that would require a whole different thread to learn more about Islam.

As for the quote you provided, the onus was on the naming convention of the movements, and in fact, the quote has to do more with the emphasis on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than the naming conventions. I would like some better substantiation of where English and non-English comments about the same subject are different.

Lastly, the information you provided is more like propaganda than anything else. Mentioning resources Al-Jazeera and PakTribune is like saying Fox is bias free. 🙂

I can't say I actually understood any of your points in this post, but what in the world is wrong with Al-Jazeera and PakTribune (formerly PakNews)? I've found them very valuable in the past as tools to know what Muslim leaders are saying to Muslims. Are you alleging they are some sort of Zionist plot or something? Canada for instance (not a free press country) approved Al-Jazeera before FoxNews, who applied earlier, so Canada at least doesn't see anything wrong with them. Admittedly I haven't visited that or PakNews in recent years, but I always found them to be reasonably accurate if culturally biased differently from our own media. (By which I mean that if detailing an honor killing or a protest-turned-riot or an act we deem terrorism, these media tend to stress the justification that Western sources typically find irrelevant.)

Since Routan doesn't like my definition of the hadith, here are some other explanations & collections for those who care. They are also useful when you see a quote attributed to Muhammed, so that you may see it in context. Also, I definitely should have said (though I honestly didn't remember) that only the so-called Sacred Hadith are supposedly the actual words of Muhammed, while other hadith may be detailing his actions. I think otherwise my explanation was pretty accurate, but anyone who cares may read and judge for himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith
http://www.uga.edu/islam/hadith.html
http://www.includipedia.com/wiki/Hadith
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/
http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/
http://muslimwiki.com/mw/index.php/Hadith
 
I can't say I actually understood any of your points in this post, but what in the world is wrong with Al-Jazeera and PakTribune (formerly PakNews)? I've found them very valuable in the past as tools to know what Muslim leaders are saying to Muslims. Are you alleging they are some sort of Zionist plot or something? Canada for instance (not a free press country) approved Al-Jazeera before FoxNews, who applied earlier, so Canada at least doesn't see anything wrong with them. Admittedly I haven't visited that or PakNews in recent years, but I always found them to be reasonably accurate if culturally biased differently from our own media. (By which I mean that if detailing an honor killing or a protest-turned-riot or an act we deem terrorism, these media tend to stress the justification that Western sources typically find irrelevant.)

Since Routan doesn't like my definition of the hadith, here are some other explanations & collections for those who care. They are also useful when you see a quote attributed to Muhammed, so that you may see it in context. Also, I definitely should have said (though I honestly didn't remember) that only the so-called Sacred Hadith are supposedly the actual words of Muhammed, while other hadith may be detailing his actions. I think otherwise my explanation was pretty accurate, but anyone who cares may read and judge for himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith
http://www.uga.edu/islam/hadith.html
http://www.includipedia.com/wiki/Hadith
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/
http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/
http://muslimwiki.com/mw/index.php/Hadith

All religions are based on archaic beliefs regarding ownership of women and slaves, goes for ALL Abrahamic AND the Hindu religion.

The sooner we get rid of those beliefs the better.


If you REALLY want to read something strange and fucked up, read the book of Mormon.
 
From my very limited knowledge I would at least have to say the Militant part could be considered terrorist.

It is pretty interesting to go through the list and see how countries differ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations

For instance only Australia and the US consider al-Qaeda in Iraq a terrorists org.

Yes, most countries consider al-Qaeda in Iraq to be a humanitarian organization organization dedicated to providing free knitted cozies to those with no underwear and chilly testicles. Kind of how the IRA in Spain is dedicated to giving out free plant encyclopedias, or how the North American Man-Boy Love Association in Canada is concerned with literacy rather than pedophilia.

Would be interesting to see what percentage of those organizations are neither Muslim nor Marxist. Unfortunately I don't have the time.
 
Yes, most countries consider al-Qaeda in Iraq to be a humanitarian organization organization dedicated to providing free knitted cozies to those with no underwear and chilly testicles. Kind of how the IRA in Spain is dedicated to giving out free plant encyclopedias, or how the North American Man-Boy Love Association in Canada is concerned with literacy rather than pedophilia.

Would be interesting to see what percentage of those organizations are neither Muslim nor Marxist. Unfortunately I don't have the time.

IRA in Spain?

I believe they are all Mormon, the last refuge of the truly retarded, you know?
 
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