Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Actually, when you know what the hell you're doing, its not.Look at the link I posted above, the violent crime rate in the U.S. is more than twice that of the Canada.
According to the statistics the violent crime rate in the U.S. is 24.7 per 1,000 people, or 2470 per 100,000 people, a lot more than the ~1000 per 100,000 in Canada. This is 2001 data from the Department of Justice, I'm not sure if agree with the collection method, but all the data is there.
The whole premise of this thread is flawed....
The Bureau of Justice National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), to which you have linked, attempts to estimate both reported and unreported violent crimes, by interviewing approximately 80,000 Americans age 12 and older in 43,000 households twice each year about their victimizations from crime.
The Canadian Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) to which you've offered NCVS figures in comparison includes only crimes reported to the police through Canada's national incident based reporting system. As you may know, or maybe not, among the five categories of violent index crimes, it is estimated that approx. 50% go unreported to police.
So while the BJS NCVS figures are thought to be on the more liberal end of the estimated number of actual offenses committed, reported and unreported, the Canadian UCR series represents only those crimes reported to police, or roughly half of all violent crimes estimated to occur in Canada by the [rough] 50% rule of thumb.
In fact, the incident-based Canadian UCR is the Canadian equivalent of the incident-based FBI UCR. They are designed to be substantially comparable, unlike the Canadian UCR and BJS NCVS, which are really two entirely different statistical tools.
According to the more comparable FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total US violent crime rate was 504.4 violent crimes per 100,000. According to Canada's Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total Canadian violent crime rate 994.5 crimes per 100,000, nearly twice the US rate.
This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet.
First off, you refrence the NCVS earlier but then don't link to the stats.
Well here they are, and guess what, they don't show Canada being more violent than the US at all. Canada's higher overall number comes from more burglary while having a significantly lower assault number than the US.
And comparing the FBI's stats with those of Canada's is completely dishonest. The FBI only includes aggravated assaults in their stats, while Canada's stats include three levels of assault, including level one assault, which is defined as: when one individual, without the consent of another, intentionally applies force, or attempts or threatens to apply force to that other person. Assault may occur without violence but must include a threatening act or gesture.
If you look at Canada's crime stats that make up the 994.5 per 100k, assault is the largest contributer by an order of magnitude. This is including assaults where the only assault was a threatening act.
Sorry, these stats can't be compared. Try again.
Edit: Oh ya, I should add....
This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet.
*Buzz* You=Wrong. Both the NCVS and UCR include: "Aggravated Assault, Simple Assault, and Intimidation. The NCVS actually counts almost any violent phsyical threat as a form of assault. Where are you getting your opinion from? Did you just make it up? What you are talking about is the difference between Index Crimes(Part I Crimes) and Part II Non-Index crimes. The FBI records both, and includes both in its yearly reports.
I don't think so. I wasn't comparing the NCVS with the UCR and Canada's stats. They are two seperate issues. Comparing the UCR with Canada's stats is dishonest, because Canada's stats include three levels of assault (including intimidation cases) while the FBI only includes aggravated assault in thier stats (at least the ones tcsenter refed). See here - it clearly states "The offenses included are violent crimes of murder and nonneglegent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault."
Or here where it states the same thing (and contains the 504.4 per 100k cited above)
"Violent crimes are offenses of murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."
Nope I am right! I already told you there is a difference in Index Crimes and Part II crimes. You said the FBi only records one. That is a lie or stupidity on your part. They record both and the NCVS and UCRs can display both. Thanks for playing. Where are you getting your information? The UCR includes BOTH Part I and Part II crimes. Would you like a scan of the fvcking manual I have here, or can you go ahead and admit you don't know what you are talking about?
Get a clue!! Where am I getting my info?? I provided two links last post.. Did you miss those? You know, the ones tcsenter cited where there are 504.4 crimes per 100k. The links that clearly define that number coming from violent crimes and aggravated assault. Didn't get a chance to read over those, huh? Where is info and stats on Part II crimes? Intimidation isn't even a part II crime, so I don't know why you're bringing it up. The UCR doesn't contain any info on simple assault or intimidation.
Here's a link defining part II crimes. Take a look, you'll learn something.
edit: oops, that link is incomplete.
here is a more detailed list, and yes, simple assault is a part II crime - but part II crimes are not included in the UCR reports we are considering, so this is a moot point. Where can part II crime data be found (the fbi's ucr website only includes part I data, from what I've seen)?
Ok, so I was wrong in this sense, but the point still stands that Part I crimes from the UCR cannot be compared to Canada's info.
Nope, I still have to maintain that you don't know what you are talking about. My professor for CJ was the Chief of Birmingham PD, and handled the UCRs for our city. I also consulted my textbook and internet sources. Part II crimes ARE includes UNLESS purposely omitted.