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A look at crime worldwide ~ Canadians views on their self described inferiority complex

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Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
nice site, notice why you picked assault, only, its the only one the US leads in.....

Top 100 Murders (per capita)

Country Description Amount
1. Colombia 0.65 per 1000 people
2. South Africa 0.5 per 1000 people
3. Jamaica 0.33 per 1000 people
4. Venezuela 0.33 per 1000 people
5. Russia 0.2 per 1000 people
6. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people
7. Lithuania 0.1 per 1000 people
8. Estonia 0.1 per 1000 people
9. Latvia 0.1 per 1000 people
10. Belarus 0.1 per 1000 people
11. Ukraine 0.09 per 1000 people
12. Papua New Guinea 0.09 per 1000 people
13. Kyrgyzstan 0.09 per 1000 people
14. Thailand 0.08 per 1000 people
15. Zimbabwe 0.08 per 1000 people
16. Zambia 0.08 per 1000 people
17. Seychelles 0.07 per 1000 people
18. Costa Rica 0.06 per 1000 people
19. Poland 0.06 per 1000 people
20. Georgia 0.05 per 1000 people
21. Uruguay 0.05 per 1000 people
22. United States 0.05 per 1000 people

Top 100 Rapes (per capita)

Country Description Amount
1. South Africa 1.21 per 1000 people
2. Montserrat 0.83 per 1000 people
3. Australia 0.8 per 1000 people
4. Seychelles 0.8 per 1000 people
5. Canada 0.75 per 1000 people
6. Zimbabwe 0.49 per 1000 people
7. Jamaica 0.49 per 1000 people
8. Dominica 0.34 per 1000 people
9. United States 0.32 per 1000 people

Hey look at that, another source which verifies my claim Canadians rape at three times the rate the US, while we kill at 3 times the rate, but I don't know what I am talknig about.

Top 100 Manslaughters (per capita)

Country Description Amount
1. South Africa 0.25 per 1000 people
2. Mexico 0.18 per 1000 people
3. Costa Rica 0.15 per 1000 people
4. Zimbabwe 0.09 per 1000 people
5. Romania 0.06 per 1000 people
6. Italy 0.03 per 1000 people
7. Turkey 0.03 per 1000 people
8. Estonia 0.02 per 1000 people
9. Australia 0.02 per 1000 people
10. Bulgaria 0.01 per 1000 people
11. Russia 0.01 per 1000 people
12. Lithuania 0.01 per 1000 people
13. Portugal 0.01 per 1000 people
14. Latvia 0.01 per 1000 people
15. Norway 0.01 per 1000 people
16. Georgia 0.01 per 1000 people
17. Belarus 0.01 per 1000 people
18. Czech Republic 0.01 per 1000 people
19. Qatar 0.01 per 1000 people
20. Ukraine 0.01 per 1000 people
21. Yemen 0.01 per 1000 people
22. Tunisia 0.01 per 1000 people
23. Finland 0.01 per 1000 people
24. Poland 0 per 1000 people
25. Japan 0 per 1000 people
26. Denmark 0 per 1000 people
27. India 0 per 1000 people
28. Thailand 0 per 1000 people
29. Zambia 0 per 1000 people
30. New Zealand 0 per 1000 people
31. Spain 0 per 1000 people
32. Ireland 0 per 1000 people
33. Hungary 0 per 1000 people
34. Indonesia 0 per 1000 people
35. Greece 0 per 1000 people
36. Mauritius 0 per 1000 people
37. Canada 0 per 1000 people
38. Uruguay 0 per 1000 people
39. Saudi Arabia 0 per 1000 people
40. Hong Kong 0 per 1000 people


Where is the US on this list? Is this how other countries keep their murder counts low, by making it manslaughter? Maybe our rate is higher because we enforce a stricter law regarding taking someone elses life..

How about crime overall?

Top 100 Total crimes (per capita)

Country Description Amount
1. Dominica 111.99 per 1000 people
2. New Zealand 109.32 per 1000 people
3. Finland 102.3 per 1000 people
4. Denmark 93.92 per 1000 people
5. Chile 90.97 per 1000 people
6. Montserrat 89.01 per 1000 people
7. United Kingdom 86.5 per 1000 people
8. United States 84.39 per 1000 people
9. Netherlands 81.26 per 1000 people
10. South Africa 78.42 per 1000 people
11. Canada 77.63 per 1000 people
12. Germany 75.25 per 1000 people
13. Norway 72.94 per 1000 people
14. France 63.11 per 1000 people
15. Seychelles 53.65 per 1000 people
16. Hungary 44.67 per 1000 people
17. Estonia 40.83 per 1000 people
18. Italy 38.22 per 1000 people
19. Czech Republic 38.17 per 1000 people
20. Switzerland 37.11 per 1000 people



yeah Canada and Germany are SOOO much better, even though they have much more liberal cultures, much more is prohibited here, more crimes to commit. How many minors arrested for drinking in the US that won't be in Germany????

Thanks boone, those helped alot, just not like you wanted, next time don't selectively pick one violent crime that the US leads in and try to paint that as all violent crime....
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,286
6
81
Hmm to all people who say that Cananda is more violent than the US...You are totally out of the reality..
I live in MI and to see the diffrience between Canada and US, just go to Detroit and then cross over the board to Windsor in Ontario.....
I would take a walk in Windsor, but you would have to drag me out of the car in order to make me walk in Detroit....
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Originally posted by: adlep
Hmm to all people who say that Cananda is more violent than the US...You are totally out of the reality..
I live in MI and to see the diffrience between Canada and US, just go to Detroit and then cross over the board to Windsor in Ontario.....
I would take a walk in Windsor, but you would have to drag me out of the car in order to make me walk in Detroit....
to all those that can sit and ignore offical canadian and US crime stats which clearly show there is almost twice as much violent crime per 100,000 people, I dont know what else to tell you.

Do you think you can accuarately judge what crime is like in Idaho from Detroit? Your own tiny perspective on the world is nice, but not comprehensive and certainly not even relevant.
 

B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
2,168
1
0
Actually no Alistar I choose Assault, because I found it funny that all the nations of predominantly english descent where on top by a little margin - hence "it must be the language" :D

btw I limited the choices to the OECD nations
 

B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
2,168
1
0
Actually no Alistar I choose Assault, because I found it funny that all the nations of predominantly english descent where on top by a little margin - hence "it must be the language" :D

btw I limited the choices to the OECD nations
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
look again african and old EU nations top many of the lists....

don't forget we are just another colony former ourselves....


 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
I would take a walk in Windsor, but you would have to drag me out of the car in order to make me walk in Detroit....
That's because you're a pussy. Why compare Windsor to Detroit? Because of their proximity to one another? Windsor is not comparable to Detroit in any way, but it does comp out well with Ann Arbor. Simply put, Windosor is no different than any other Detroit suburb, are you afraid to walk in Southfield or Livonia? All you've got to do is go across 8 mile and it's a different world, much in the same way you cross the Detroit river..............
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
So how is Germany today? Everyone in a good mood? You people scare me when your economy starts to tank, just want to make sure you're not getting frisky again. But if you are feeling that way, it's common knowledge the French are the cause of all your problems......;)
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
lucky us, corn has been added to the lunch menu......

plenty of old timers here, wheres fencer?????
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Look at the link I posted above, the violent crime rate in the U.S. is more than twice that of the Canada.

According to the statistics the violent crime rate in the U.S. is 24.7 per 1,000 people, or 2470 per 100,000 people, a lot more than the ~1000 per 100,000 in Canada. This is 2001 data from the Department of Justice, I'm not sure if agree with the collection method, but all the data is there.

The whole premise of this thread is flawed....
Actually, when you know what the hell you're doing, its not.

The Bureau of Justice National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), to which you have linked, attempts to estimate both reported and unreported violent crimes, by interviewing approximately 80,000 Americans age 12 and older in 43,000 households twice each year about their victimizations from crime.

The Canadian Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) to which you've offered NCVS figures in comparison includes only crimes reported to the police through Canada's national incident based reporting system. As you may know, or maybe not, among the five categories of violent index crimes, it is estimated that approx. 50% go unreported to police.

So while the BJS NCVS figures are thought to be on the more liberal end of the estimated number of actual offenses committed, reported and unreported, the Canadian UCR series represents only those crimes reported to police, or roughly half of all violent crimes estimated to occur in Canada by the [rough] 50% rule of thumb.

In fact, the incident-based Canadian UCR is the Canadian equivalent of the incident-based FBI UCR. They are designed to be substantially comparable, unlike the Canadian UCR and BJS NCVS, which are really two entirely different statistical tools.

According to the more comparable FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total US violent crime rate was 504.4 violent crimes per 100,000. According to Canada's Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total Canadian violent crime rate 994.5 crimes per 100,000, nearly twice the US rate.

This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet.
First off, you refrence the NCVS earlier but then don't link to the stats.
Well here they are, and guess what, they don't show Canada being more violent than the US at all. Canada's higher overall number comes from more burglary while having a significantly lower assault number than the US.

And comparing the FBI's stats with those of Canada's is completely dishonest. The FBI only includes aggravated assaults in their stats, while Canada's stats include three levels of assault, including level one assault, which is defined as: when one individual, without the consent of another, intentionally applies force, or attempts or threatens to apply force to that other person. Assault may occur without violence but must include a threatening act or gesture.
If you look at Canada's crime stats that make up the 994.5 per 100k, assault is the largest contributer by an order of magnitude. This is including assaults where the only assault was a threatening act.
Sorry, these stats can't be compared. Try again.

Edit: Oh ya, I should add....
This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet. :D
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Look at the link I posted above, the violent crime rate in the U.S. is more than twice that of the Canada.

According to the statistics the violent crime rate in the U.S. is 24.7 per 1,000 people, or 2470 per 100,000 people, a lot more than the ~1000 per 100,000 in Canada. This is 2001 data from the Department of Justice, I'm not sure if agree with the collection method, but all the data is there.

The whole premise of this thread is flawed....
Actually, when you know what the hell you're doing, its not.

The Bureau of Justice National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), to which you have linked, attempts to estimate both reported and unreported violent crimes, by interviewing approximately 80,000 Americans age 12 and older in 43,000 households twice each year about their victimizations from crime.

The Canadian Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) to which you've offered NCVS figures in comparison includes only crimes reported to the police through Canada's national incident based reporting system. As you may know, or maybe not, among the five categories of violent index crimes, it is estimated that approx. 50% go unreported to police.

So while the BJS NCVS figures are thought to be on the more liberal end of the estimated number of actual offenses committed, reported and unreported, the Canadian UCR series represents only those crimes reported to police, or roughly half of all violent crimes estimated to occur in Canada by the [rough] 50% rule of thumb.

In fact, the incident-based Canadian UCR is the Canadian equivalent of the incident-based FBI UCR. They are designed to be substantially comparable, unlike the Canadian UCR and BJS NCVS, which are really two entirely different statistical tools.

According to the more comparable FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total US violent crime rate was 504.4 violent crimes per 100,000. According to Canada's Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total Canadian violent crime rate 994.5 crimes per 100,000, nearly twice the US rate.

This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet.
First off, you refrence the NCVS earlier but then don't link to the stats.
Well here they are, and guess what, they don't show Canada being more violent than the US at all. Canada's higher overall number comes from more burglary while having a significantly lower assault number than the US.

And comparing the FBI's stats with those of Canada's is completely dishonest. The FBI only includes aggravated assaults in their stats, while Canada's stats include three levels of assault, including level one assault, which is defined as: when one individual, without the consent of another, intentionally applies force, or attempts or threatens to apply force to that other person. Assault may occur without violence but must include a threatening act or gesture.
If you look at Canada's crime stats that make up the 994.5 per 100k, assault is the largest contributer by an order of magnitude. This is including assaults where the only assault was a threatening act.
Sorry, these stats can't be compared. Try again.

Edit: Oh ya, I should add....
This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet. :D
*Buzz* You=Wrong. Both the NCVS and UCR include: "Aggravated Assault, Simple Assault, and Intimidation. The NCVS actually counts almost any violent phsyical threat as a form of assault. Where are you getting your opinion from? Did you just make it up? What you are talking about is the difference between Index Crimes(Part I Crimes) and Part II Non-Index crimes. The FBI records both, and includes both in its yearly reports.
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Look at the link I posted above, the violent crime rate in the U.S. is more than twice that of the Canada.

According to the statistics the violent crime rate in the U.S. is 24.7 per 1,000 people, or 2470 per 100,000 people, a lot more than the ~1000 per 100,000 in Canada. This is 2001 data from the Department of Justice, I'm not sure if agree with the collection method, but all the data is there.

The whole premise of this thread is flawed....
Actually, when you know what the hell you're doing, its not.

The Bureau of Justice National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), to which you have linked, attempts to estimate both reported and unreported violent crimes, by interviewing approximately 80,000 Americans age 12 and older in 43,000 households twice each year about their victimizations from crime.

The Canadian Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) to which you've offered NCVS figures in comparison includes only crimes reported to the police through Canada's national incident based reporting system. As you may know, or maybe not, among the five categories of violent index crimes, it is estimated that approx. 50% go unreported to police.

So while the BJS NCVS figures are thought to be on the more liberal end of the estimated number of actual offenses committed, reported and unreported, the Canadian UCR series represents only those crimes reported to police, or roughly half of all violent crimes estimated to occur in Canada by the [rough] 50% rule of thumb.

In fact, the incident-based Canadian UCR is the Canadian equivalent of the incident-based FBI UCR. They are designed to be substantially comparable, unlike the Canadian UCR and BJS NCVS, which are really two entirely different statistical tools.

According to the more comparable FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total US violent crime rate was 504.4 violent crimes per 100,000. According to Canada's Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total Canadian violent crime rate 994.5 crimes per 100,000, nearly twice the US rate.

This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet.
First off, you refrence the NCVS earlier but then don't link to the stats.
Well here they are, and guess what, they don't show Canada being more violent than the US at all. Canada's higher overall number comes from more burglary while having a significantly lower assault number than the US.

And comparing the FBI's stats with those of Canada's is completely dishonest. The FBI only includes aggravated assaults in their stats, while Canada's stats include three levels of assault, including level one assault, which is defined as: when one individual, without the consent of another, intentionally applies force, or attempts or threatens to apply force to that other person. Assault may occur without violence but must include a threatening act or gesture.
If you look at Canada's crime stats that make up the 994.5 per 100k, assault is the largest contributer by an order of magnitude. This is including assaults where the only assault was a threatening act.
Sorry, these stats can't be compared. Try again.

Edit: Oh ya, I should add....
This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet. :D
*Buzz* You=Wrong. Both the NCVS and UCR include: "Aggravated Assault, Simple Assault, and Intimidation. The NCVS actually counts almost any violent phsyical threat as a form of assault. Where are you getting your opinion from? Did you just make it up? What you are talking about is the difference between Index Crimes(Part I Crimes) and Part II Non-Index crimes. The FBI records both, and includes both in its yearly reports.
I don't think so. I wasn't comparing the NCVS with the UCR and Canada's stats. They are two seperate issues. Comparing the UCR with Canada's stats is dishonest, because Canada's stats include three levels of assault (including intimidation cases) while the FBI only includes aggravated assault in thier stats (at least the ones tcsenter refed). See here - it clearly states "The offenses included are violent crimes of murder and nonneglegent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault."
Or here where it states the same thing (and contains the 504.4 per 100k cited above)
"Violent crimes are offenses of murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Look at the link I posted above, the violent crime rate in the U.S. is more than twice that of the Canada.

According to the statistics the violent crime rate in the U.S. is 24.7 per 1,000 people, or 2470 per 100,000 people, a lot more than the ~1000 per 100,000 in Canada. This is 2001 data from the Department of Justice, I'm not sure if agree with the collection method, but all the data is there.

The whole premise of this thread is flawed....
Actually, when you know what the hell you're doing, its not.

The Bureau of Justice National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), to which you have linked, attempts to estimate both reported and unreported violent crimes, by interviewing approximately 80,000 Americans age 12 and older in 43,000 households twice each year about their victimizations from crime.

The Canadian Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) to which you've offered NCVS figures in comparison includes only crimes reported to the police through Canada's national incident based reporting system. As you may know, or maybe not, among the five categories of violent index crimes, it is estimated that approx. 50% go unreported to police.

So while the BJS NCVS figures are thought to be on the more liberal end of the estimated number of actual offenses committed, reported and unreported, the Canadian UCR series represents only those crimes reported to police, or roughly half of all violent crimes estimated to occur in Canada by the [rough] 50% rule of thumb.

In fact, the incident-based Canadian UCR is the Canadian equivalent of the incident-based FBI UCR. They are designed to be substantially comparable, unlike the Canadian UCR and BJS NCVS, which are really two entirely different statistical tools.

According to the more comparable FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total US violent crime rate was 504.4 violent crimes per 100,000. According to Canada's Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total Canadian violent crime rate 994.5 crimes per 100,000, nearly twice the US rate.

This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet.
First off, you refrence the NCVS earlier but then don't link to the stats.
Well here they are, and guess what, they don't show Canada being more violent than the US at all. Canada's higher overall number comes from more burglary while having a significantly lower assault number than the US.

And comparing the FBI's stats with those of Canada's is completely dishonest. The FBI only includes aggravated assaults in their stats, while Canada's stats include three levels of assault, including level one assault, which is defined as: when one individual, without the consent of another, intentionally applies force, or attempts or threatens to apply force to that other person. Assault may occur without violence but must include a threatening act or gesture.
If you look at Canada's crime stats that make up the 994.5 per 100k, assault is the largest contributer by an order of magnitude. This is including assaults where the only assault was a threatening act.
Sorry, these stats can't be compared. Try again.

Edit: Oh ya, I should add....
This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet. :D
*Buzz* You=Wrong. Both the NCVS and UCR include: "Aggravated Assault, Simple Assault, and Intimidation. The NCVS actually counts almost any violent phsyical threat as a form of assault. Where are you getting your opinion from? Did you just make it up? What you are talking about is the difference between Index Crimes(Part I Crimes) and Part II Non-Index crimes. The FBI records both, and includes both in its yearly reports.
I don't think so. I wasn't comparing the NCVS with the UCR and Canada's stats. They are two seperate issues. Comparing the UCR with Canada's stats is dishonest, because Canada's stats include three levels of assault (including intimidation cases) while the FBI only includes aggravated assault in thier stats (at least the ones tcsenter refed). See here - it clearly states "The offenses included are violent crimes of murder and nonneglegent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault."
Or here where it states the same thing (and contains the 504.4 per 100k cited above)
"Violent crimes are offenses of murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."
Nope I am right! I already told you there is a difference in Index Crimes and Part II crimes. You said the FBi only records one. That is a lie or stupidity on your part. They record both and the NCVS and UCRs can display both. Thanks for playing. Where are you getting your information? The UCR includes BOTH Part I and Part II crimes. Would you like a scan of the fvcking manual I have here, or can you go ahead and admit you don't know what you are talking about?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,551
3
0
You actually believe that Cananda feels inferior to a state like Alabama?? Get real!
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
You actually believe that Cananda feels inferior to a state like Alabama?? Get real!
Who elected Gray Davis and had energy blackouts?
 

drewshin

Golden Member
Dec 14, 1999
1,464
0
0
wow this is great, this list is full of third world economy countries. wooohoo we're right by zimbabwe for rapes, and uruguay for murders. there's not an abnormal amount of violence here! and while this thread is nothing more than a flame, why dont i say that did you notice on the graph that the u.s. crime rate has dropped precipitously since 1992 or so? about 18 years after roe vs. wade legalized abortion, less unwanted kids on the street, less crime. keep abortion legal! you like that alistar type of logic?

canadians have an inferiority complex because they have higher rates of violence? <---how does one lead to the other?
canadians are running around cowering to americans because oh, they hurt more, OH the guilt!

this thread would have been interesting if it just stated that the violent crime rate in canada was higher than the u.s.

next from alistar:

the amount of ice cream consumed has increased since the 1970s, the crime rate has dropped in the u.s. since the 1970s, therefore people must eat more ice cream to keep the crime rate dropping. great logic!

Originally posted by: Alistar7
nice site, notice why you picked assault, only, its the only one the US leads in.....

Top 100 Murders (per capita)

Country Description Amount
1. Colombia 0.65 per 1000 people
2. South Africa 0.5 per 1000 people
3. Jamaica 0.33 per 1000 people
4. Venezuela 0.33 per 1000 people
5. Russia 0.2 per 1000 people
6. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people
7. Lithuania 0.1 per 1000 people
8. Estonia 0.1 per 1000 people
9. Latvia 0.1 per 1000 people
10. Belarus 0.1 per 1000 people
11. Ukraine 0.09 per 1000 people
12. Papua New Guinea 0.09 per 1000 people
13. Kyrgyzstan 0.09 per 1000 people
14. Thailand 0.08 per 1000 people
15. Zimbabwe 0.08 per 1000 people
16. Zambia 0.08 per 1000 people
17. Seychelles 0.07 per 1000 people
18. Costa Rica 0.06 per 1000 people
19. Poland 0.06 per 1000 people
20. Georgia 0.05 per 1000 people
21. Uruguay 0.05 per 1000 people
22. United States 0.05 per 1000 people

Top 100 Rapes (per capita)

Country Description Amount
1. South Africa 1.21 per 1000 people
2. Montserrat 0.83 per 1000 people
3. Australia 0.8 per 1000 people
4. Seychelles 0.8 per 1000 people
5. Canada 0.75 per 1000 people
6. Zimbabwe 0.49 per 1000 people
7. Jamaica 0.49 per 1000 people
8. Dominica 0.34 per 1000 people
9. United States 0.32 per 1000 people

Hey look at that, another source which verifies my claim Canadians rape at three times the rate the US, while we kill at 3 times the rate, but I don't know what I am talknig about.

Top 100 Manslaughters (per capita)

Country Description Amount
1. South Africa 0.25 per 1000 people
2. Mexico 0.18 per 1000 people
3. Costa Rica 0.15 per 1000 people
4. Zimbabwe 0.09 per 1000 people
5. Romania 0.06 per 1000 people
6. Italy 0.03 per 1000 people
7. Turkey 0.03 per 1000 people
8. Estonia 0.02 per 1000 people
9. Australia 0.02 per 1000 people
10. Bulgaria 0.01 per 1000 people
11. Russia 0.01 per 1000 people
12. Lithuania 0.01 per 1000 people
13. Portugal 0.01 per 1000 people
14. Latvia 0.01 per 1000 people
15. Norway 0.01 per 1000 people
16. Georgia 0.01 per 1000 people
17. Belarus 0.01 per 1000 people
18. Czech Republic 0.01 per 1000 people
19. Qatar 0.01 per 1000 people
20. Ukraine 0.01 per 1000 people
21. Yemen 0.01 per 1000 people
22. Tunisia 0.01 per 1000 people
23. Finland 0.01 per 1000 people
24. Poland 0 per 1000 people
25. Japan 0 per 1000 people
26. Denmark 0 per 1000 people
27. India 0 per 1000 people
28. Thailand 0 per 1000 people
29. Zambia 0 per 1000 people
30. New Zealand 0 per 1000 people
31. Spain 0 per 1000 people
32. Ireland 0 per 1000 people
33. Hungary 0 per 1000 people
34. Indonesia 0 per 1000 people
35. Greece 0 per 1000 people
36. Mauritius 0 per 1000 people
37. Canada 0 per 1000 people
38. Uruguay 0 per 1000 people
39. Saudi Arabia 0 per 1000 people
40. Hong Kong 0 per 1000 people


Where is the US on this list? Is this how other countries keep their murder counts low, by making it manslaughter? Maybe our rate is higher because we enforce a stricter law regarding taking someone elses life..

How about crime overall?

Top 100 Total crimes (per capita)

Country Description Amount
1. Dominica 111.99 per 1000 people
2. New Zealand 109.32 per 1000 people
3. Finland 102.3 per 1000 people
4. Denmark 93.92 per 1000 people
5. Chile 90.97 per 1000 people
6. Montserrat 89.01 per 1000 people
7. United Kingdom 86.5 per 1000 people
8. United States 84.39 per 1000 people
9. Netherlands 81.26 per 1000 people
10. South Africa 78.42 per 1000 people
11. Canada 77.63 per 1000 people
12. Germany 75.25 per 1000 people
13. Norway 72.94 per 1000 people
14. France 63.11 per 1000 people
15. Seychelles 53.65 per 1000 people
16. Hungary 44.67 per 1000 people
17. Estonia 40.83 per 1000 people
18. Italy 38.22 per 1000 people
19. Czech Republic 38.17 per 1000 people
20. Switzerland 37.11 per 1000 people



yeah Canada and Germany are SOOO much better, even though they have much more liberal cultures, much more is prohibited here, more crimes to commit. How many minors arrested for drinking in the US that won't be in Germany????

Thanks boone, those helped alot, just not like you wanted, next time don't selectively pick one violent crime that the US leads in and try to paint that as all violent crime....
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,848
24
81
First off, you refrence the NCVS earlier but then don't link to the stats.
Well here they are, and guess what, they don't show Canada being more violent than the US at all. Canada's higher overall number comes from more burglary while having a significantly lower assault number than the US.
lol! You're even more clueless than usual today.

Not only was I not the one who first mentioned NCVS, and thus have no obligation to provide a link to anything I did not bring up, but it would seem you can't even get the NVCS link right. You linked to ICVS, not NCVS. Similar, but not the same. You're welcome.

It was BFC who first cited NCVS as a counter to Canadian UCR and gave a link:
06/17/2003 6:04 AM by BFC

See the following link for latest 2001 data link

Data is per 1000 people

Comments....
Further, I already linked to the very same ICVS website long ago:
06/18/2003 7:07 AM by tcsenter

"If you think the US has a lot of crime, check out England and Wales."
You're welcome.

What the ICVS does show is that Canada's crime rates are shockingly high for a country with substantially less urbanization and population densities, 10 times fewer people and just as much land mass, a lilly white population rivaling that of any uber-white European nation, and this alleged 'social welfare safety net' that we are incessantly told reduces crime, particularly property crimes (which Canada consistently meets or exceeds the US in), and the fact that gun control is supposed to be some kind of panacea for crime reduction.

In short, what it shows is that Canada, but also several European countries like England and Wales, are not substantially "more safe" with "less crime" than the US, flying in the face of the 'conventional wisdom' and what we are constantly told.

By why not use the most current ICVS data instead of older stuff from 1996? LETS!

Auto Theft: % of owners victimised once or more in 1999

Average = 1.2

England & Wales = 2.6
Australia = 2.1
France = 1.9
Sweden = 1.6
Canada = 1.6
Denmark = 1.4
USA = 0.5
Finland = 0.5
Netherlands = 0.5
Switzerland = 0.4
Japan = 0.1

Burglary and Attempted Burglary: % victimised once or more in 1999

Average = 3.3

Australia = 6.6
England & Wales = 5.2
Canada = 4.4
Denmark = 4.2
USA = 3.8
Switzerland = 2.7
France = 2.3
Finland = 1.2

Selected contact crime (robbery, sexual assault and assault with force): % victimised once or more in 1999

Average = 2.4

Australia = 4.1
England and Wales = 3.6
Canada = 3.4
Finland = 3.2
Denmark = 2.3
Switzerland = 2.1
USA = 1.9
Japan = 0.41

Assaults and threats

The question asked of respondents to identify assaults and threats was:

?Apart from the incidents just covered, have you over the past five years been
personally attacked or threatened by someone in a way that really frightened
you, either at home or elsewhere, such as in a pub, in the street, at school, on
public transport, on the beach, or at your workplace??

Overall, 3.5% of respondents indicated that they have been a victim of an assault
with force or a threat of force. (Details by country are in Appendix 4, Tables 1, 2
and 6.) There were higher than average rates in Australia, Scotland, England and
Wales (about 6%), and Canada (5%).
The USA rate was 3.4%.

Assault with Physical Force: % victimised once or more in 1999

Average = 1.5

England and Wales = 2.8
Australia = 2.4
Canada = 2.3
France = 1.4
Sweden = 1.2
USA = 1.2
Switzerland = 1.0

Kesteren, J.N.van, Mayhew, P. & Nieuwbeerta, P. (2000) Criminal Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Countries: Key-findings from the 2000 international Crime Victims Survey. the Hague, Ministry of Justice, WODC
And comparing the FBI's stats with those of Canada's is completely dishonest. The FBI only includes aggravated assaults in their stats, while Canada's stats include three levels of assault, including level one assault, which is defined as: when one individual, without the consent of another, intentionally applies force, or attempts or threatens to apply force to that other person.
More on that later.
This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet.
Well when you get done cleaning all the sh-t from your boots and wiping the egg from your face, maybe you could come back and try again, but with some degree of accuracy next time, eh? I'm not asking for a lot, just seeing you get one thing right today and I'll be happy. Thanks.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
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0
some cheese to go with your whine drew?

I only linked the two to get both of them in the same thread, I honestly don't think they have anything to do with each other, and you wont find any comments that suggest I do, which is why I used it as a question, not a statement.


I mentioned Canada's well known inferiority complex in one thread, and was verbally attacked by the Canucks and had to listen to comments about how much more violent Americans were. Wanting to know what prompted such a strong repsonse I looked into theories on the complex, and found some that explained the very behavour I was trying to understand from them. I also wanted to find out just how close the two were in violent crime, honestly, before I looked I assumed the US would be higher. Now I know better, nothing like educating yourself instead of relying on prejudice and assumption. So few here even comtemplate the fact they could be wrong, and dismiss facts which don't match what they think to be true.
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
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0
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Look at the link I posted above, the violent crime rate in the U.S. is more than twice that of the Canada.

According to the statistics the violent crime rate in the U.S. is 24.7 per 1,000 people, or 2470 per 100,000 people, a lot more than the ~1000 per 100,000 in Canada. This is 2001 data from the Department of Justice, I'm not sure if agree with the collection method, but all the data is there.

The whole premise of this thread is flawed....
Actually, when you know what the hell you're doing, its not.

The Bureau of Justice National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), to which you have linked, attempts to estimate both reported and unreported violent crimes, by interviewing approximately 80,000 Americans age 12 and older in 43,000 households twice each year about their victimizations from crime.

The Canadian Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) to which you've offered NCVS figures in comparison includes only crimes reported to the police through Canada's national incident based reporting system. As you may know, or maybe not, among the five categories of violent index crimes, it is estimated that approx. 50% go unreported to police.

So while the BJS NCVS figures are thought to be on the more liberal end of the estimated number of actual offenses committed, reported and unreported, the Canadian UCR series represents only those crimes reported to police, or roughly half of all violent crimes estimated to occur in Canada by the [rough] 50% rule of thumb.

In fact, the incident-based Canadian UCR is the Canadian equivalent of the incident-based FBI UCR. They are designed to be substantially comparable, unlike the Canadian UCR and BJS NCVS, which are really two entirely different statistical tools.

According to the more comparable FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total US violent crime rate was 504.4 violent crimes per 100,000. According to Canada's Uniform Crime Reports, in 2001 the total Canadian violent crime rate 994.5 crimes per 100,000, nearly twice the US rate.

This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet.
First off, you refrence the NCVS earlier but then don't link to the stats.
Well here they are, and guess what, they don't show Canada being more violent than the US at all. Canada's higher overall number comes from more burglary while having a significantly lower assault number than the US.

And comparing the FBI's stats with those of Canada's is completely dishonest. The FBI only includes aggravated assaults in their stats, while Canada's stats include three levels of assault, including level one assault, which is defined as: when one individual, without the consent of another, intentionally applies force, or attempts or threatens to apply force to that other person. Assault may occur without violence but must include a threatening act or gesture.
If you look at Canada's crime stats that make up the 994.5 per 100k, assault is the largest contributer by an order of magnitude. This is including assaults where the only assault was a threatening act.
Sorry, these stats can't be compared. Try again.

Edit: Oh ya, I should add....
This does underscore why one shouldn't leap to speak on matters about which they aren't informed enough to prevent themselves from stepping in it. There is more to statistics than gleening numbers from the internet. :D
*Buzz* You=Wrong. Both the NCVS and UCR include: "Aggravated Assault, Simple Assault, and Intimidation. The NCVS actually counts almost any violent phsyical threat as a form of assault. Where are you getting your opinion from? Did you just make it up? What you are talking about is the difference between Index Crimes(Part I Crimes) and Part II Non-Index crimes. The FBI records both, and includes both in its yearly reports.
I don't think so. I wasn't comparing the NCVS with the UCR and Canada's stats. They are two seperate issues. Comparing the UCR with Canada's stats is dishonest, because Canada's stats include three levels of assault (including intimidation cases) while the FBI only includes aggravated assault in thier stats (at least the ones tcsenter refed). See here - it clearly states "The offenses included are violent crimes of murder and nonneglegent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault."
Or here where it states the same thing (and contains the 504.4 per 100k cited above)
"Violent crimes are offenses of murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."
Nope I am right! I already told you there is a difference in Index Crimes and Part II crimes. You said the FBi only records one. That is a lie or stupidity on your part. They record both and the NCVS and UCRs can display both. Thanks for playing. Where are you getting your information? The UCR includes BOTH Part I and Part II crimes. Would you like a scan of the fvcking manual I have here, or can you go ahead and admit you don't know what you are talking about?
Get a clue!! Where am I getting my info?? I provided two links last post.. Did you miss those? You know, the ones tcsenter cited where there are 504.4 crimes per 100k. The links that clearly define that number coming from violent crimes and aggravated assault. Didn't get a chance to read over those, huh? Where is info and stats on Part II crimes? Intimidation isn't even a part II crime, so I don't know why you're bringing it up. The UCR doesn't contain any info on simple assault or intimidation.
Here's a link defining part II crimes. Take a look, you'll learn something.
edit: oops, that link is incomplete.
here is a more detailed list, and yes, simple assault is a part II crime - but part II crimes are not included in the UCR reports we are considering, so this is a moot point. Where can part II crime data be found (the fbi's ucr website only includes part I data, from what I've seen)?
Ok, so I was wrong in this sense, but the point still stands that Part I crimes from the UCR cannot be compared to Canada's info.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
st paul?

sorry I will stick with official FBI and Canadian figures....


interesting reaction to this thread, I doubt I am the only one whose assumptions were shattered by the facts......
 

skylark

Senior member
Feb 24, 2001
798
0
0
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Canada is the easter bunny compared to the US in violent crimes.
Well at least that's what you've been told over and over.
tscenter: real idea? The stats are out to lunch. Do you live here? nO. I have all my life. I know how it is here. Your country has more famous, well-documented criminals than any other country. Every time I turn on TV, there's a darn show on death, murder, guns, bombs, and rape. Notice most of the movies now always have gun fight scenes. Where did that come from? Violence and Death are good business for US corporate media giants if you haven't noticed.
Ah ha! Well I think we have a winner here.

I saw it on TV! The statistics by Canada and the United States' own crime statistical reporting and tracking governmental agencies are wrong and the TV is right! Its gotta be true because the media sensationalizes school shootings in the US.

Report ... the actuals, convictions or clears remain to be seen. Care to provide that information to me?

What you're describing is the 'air disaster' vs. 'highway deaths' media phenomena. I've yet to meet a person who was scared of riding in an automobile, but I've met plenty afraid to fly or refuse to fly because they "feel" safer in an automobile. Perceptions can be tricky. Yours are at odds with the facts. Don't feel bad, you're not alone.

I was referring to mainstream TV shows, not news media.

The FBI/BJS Uniform Crime Reports uses an almost identical incident-based national reporting system as the Canadian Center For Justice Statistics Uniform Crime Reports. These numbers come from surveys of police agencies who participate in the incident-based reporting system.

it is a report based on what? How much chaff is what cannot be determined.

Of course the Canadian government loves to focus virtually any comparison of violent crime between the US and Canada on firearm-related crime and homicide almost exclusively. So does the Canadian media. Hell the US media has a penchant for anything firearm related. There could be five rapes in one night and the media will almost certainly report the one shooting which occurred the same night, saying nothing about the rapes. Of course, all governments want to cast their crime statistics in the best light.


While there are differences in how the US and Canada 'group' types of violent crimes into 'categories', there are not substantial differences. No matter how they're grouped, all the major violent index crimes are there; murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, aggravated assault, assault and battery, sexual assault, and robbery.

The US and Canadian UCR are not 'directly' comparable, no two countries are because no two countries have identical counting rules, definitions, classifications, or law enforcement resources. But the two are substantially comparable and differences cannot account for huge disparities. If you're talking a spread of 10%, you could reasonably complain about the differences in statistical methods. If you're talking about a spread of 100%, then no.

stats of actual convicted crimes rated by a pop ratio would be nice beside just a lumpsum number that means little in real world statistics.

Instead of offering your 'As Seen On TV' expertise, why don't you offer detailed analysis of how 'the stats are inaccurate? I'm willing to consider your analysis, but you realize that 'I watch a lot of TV' isn't cutting anyone's mustard, right?


I don't care about the stats that much because I lived here, travelled around and I find the stats (arguably inflated) is off, way off.. IF these were ACTUAL rates, Canada's crime enforcement and judicial system will have a crisis every year.

If you think the US has a lot of crime, check out England and Wales.
No, I'm going gophering through this website to look for god knows what.SRT Work and Restructuring Request
 

skylark

Senior member
Feb 24, 2001
798
0
0
Originally posted by: Alistar7
non violent drub busts? You do realize they just caught some people trying to take a truckload of explosives into Vancouver for the gangs fighting for control ofthe drug trade?

explosives are so not violent though right? Is it exploding beer and syrup?
and what's your point? are these gangs even canadian citizens?

Its not like we have the mafia running the country systemically here..

:D

And thank you for the patronization. No wonder some of the canucks you've seen or heard don't like the A-attitude??

anyhow, the whole premise of thread is lost.

Off to the Igloo
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Yes the premise is lost, we now know for sure Canadians have an inferiority complex, and are twice a violent.


Yes those are Canadian gangs, want the link to the story? Damn you people need to learn how to look things up yourself....

Mounties Seize 1,000 Pounds of Explosives

VANCOUVER, British Columbia (Reuters) - Police said on Monday they seized more than 1,000 pounds of stolen explosives, enough to flatten a building, that was believed destined for Vancouver-area criminal gangs.

 

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