A Discussion on Microcenter In Pricing Comparisons

[Smoblikat]

Even in default frequencies the FX 8120 is faster than 2500K in multithreaded apps and it is $35 cheaper. And the 880G motherboard do have an integrated GPU.



Then when both CPUs will be overclocked the 2500 will loose, it takes a 5GHz Core i5 2500K to win in multithreaded apps aganst a 4.8GHz 8-core FX CPU.

Now, let's clear this one up once and for all, Im not an AMD, Intel or NV fanboy. Just because a person disagrees with you about a CPU or a GPU etc doesnt make him/her a fan boy.

I dont believe that FX sucks, perhaps the FX8150 is not suited for enthusiast and Overclockers but up to FX8120 they are very competitive in price per performance against Intel's offering when Overclocked. FX do give you a better multithreaded performance at the same price vs Core i CPUs and up to the $200 mark they are very compatitive in performance.

I could call you a fan boy because you dont realize that at a cheaper or lets say equal priced FX8120 can be competitive against Core i5 2500K. It looses in some and wins in others. Does that make it sucks ?? NO. Did i called you a fan boy before ?? NO.

Have i ever said that FX CPUs are Superior ?? NO
Have i ever recommended the FX8150 ??? NO.

Not everyone can or willing to spend $1K-2K for their PCs. On a tight budget $35-50 can give you something more. So yes i believe that $35 in savings here, another $35 from a different component can make a difference for a lot of people. If that wasnt the case, everyone would be buying the same CPU, AMD and Intel would only produce a single CPU for everyone



I dont know what happens in the US, but in the rest of the world the AMD Phenoms are EOL and cant be purchased anymore. Plus, FX has lower power usage(stock speeds), plus more ISA's (AVX etc).



I havent used the default FX heat-sink to find out the maximum OC of the FX8150 but from what i read from others they can reach 4-4.2GHz with 1.33-1.35V. But even if you use the Intel heat-sink and only OC 2500K to 4.2-4.4GHz, then again 2500K will loose in multithreaded apps against a 4.7-4.8GHz 8-core FX. Not to mention at the same price point.

My belief is that FX CPUs are price/performance competitive when OCed up to $200 mark. Now, i dont say they are the better choice for everyone, but they simple dont suck

Maybe so, but dont forget about power consumption and heat output. Plus, a CPU does more than run multithreaded benchmarks all day, you have to look at actual real world gaming performance too.

 

[Chiropteran]

The US Population as of the 2010 census is 308M...so 25% of the US population has a Microcenter in their city. Expand that to people who are within easy reach of those locations, and I'd bet a good 40% of the US population can get to a Microcenter pretty easily. It's not a majority, but it sure as heck isn't a 'tiny percentage.'

Good estimate.

Also, keep in mind personal priorities. For example, I'd argue that people living out of the way in small towns far away from cities are probably not going to be computer enthusiasts anyway.

A couple years back there was an article about how 40% of the US has no broadband internet, and an incredibly 30% has no internet access at all. I doubt that those people really care much at all about computers or technology, they are probably the majority of the people who are outside Microcenter range. So when you look only at the population that is interested in computers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if 80-90% were all in range of a Microcenter.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10454133-94.html

 

[blckgrffn]

Also, keep in mind personal priorities. For example, I'd argue that people living out of the way in small towns far away from cities are probably not going to be computer enthusiasts anyway.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10454133-94.html

I think that is an incredibly short sited and uninformed view of the situation. I'd argue that it is a relatively even distribution.

People don't move based on Internet speeds - especially since broadband is only about a decade old.

Based on my personal (and therefore anecdotal) experience, I find this statement amusing.

 

[AtenRa]

Maybe so, but dont forget about power consumption and heat output. Plus, a CPU does more than run multithreaded benchmarks all day, you have to look at actual real world gaming performance too.

We are GPU bound with an overclocked 8-core FX CPU or Core i5 2500K at 1080p and above, so no matter if Core i5 or FX are faster in single thread. There are a few exceptions like StarCraft 2 etc that runs better with Intel CPUs but the majority of the games will produce almost the same results with both of those CPUs.

Yes Core i5 has lower consumption and if you care about it just buy Core i5 2500K. But for others the higher multithreaded performance is more important and they will be better with the FX CPU.

The point im trying to make here is that at current prices, when OCed, the FX CPUs up to 8120 are competitive in price/performance.

 

[Chiropteran]

I think that is an incredibly short sited and uninformed view of the situation. I'd argue that it is a relatively even distribution.

People don't move based on Internet speeds - especially since broadband is only about a decade old.

Based on my personal (and therefore anecdotal) experience, I find this statement amusing.

I disagree, but I suppose all I have to disagree with are anecdotes as well

Personally, I bought a new condo last year. I was searching in the DC Metro area around where I work. There were several good possibilities in Alexandria, but ultimately I decided on the Condo in Arlington county simply because you can't get Verizon FIOS in the city of Alexandria.

As another example, my younger brother was a big gamer while in high school, living at home with mom. My mom is not much of a technology user, didn't really care about high speed internet or anything of the sort, so my brother grew up with terrible lag and dropped connections. Because of this, when he finally moved out and got his own place internet access was a very important deal for him, and he wouldn't have picked a place that didn't have good broadband.


Basically, while it may be true that some people don't move just because of internet access, when you are already moving for other reasons if you care about internet access it will factor into your decision about where you move to.

Also, there are simple regional influences. For example if you work in an office in the city, your managers may just assume you have a computer and internet at home and remote desktop into work on occasion. Some people who wouldn't otherwise own a computer would be pressured to buy one just to fit what is expected of them. If you work in some factory and live in an isolated factory town in the middle of nowhere, your factory boss probably doesn't make the same assumptions and as such employees have no outside pressure to buy a computer.

Another factor, again related to jobs, is that most technology jobs which would attract computer enthusiasts or users are located in or around major cities. Even if you don't move to the city to get broadband, you move to the city for your job.

I am not trying to argue that everyone who lives in the woods is a technophobe and everyone in the city is a computer enthusiast, but I do think it's shortsighted to say that there is no association at all. I do not think there would be an even distribution.

 

[grkM3]

If you live in miami the closest microcenter is a one way 12 hour drive

 

[grkM3]

We are GPU bound with an overclocked 8-core FX CPU or Core i5 2500K at 1080p and above, so no matter if Core i5 or FX are faster in single thread. There are a few exceptions like StarCraft 2 etc that runs better with Intel CPUs but the majority of the games will produce almost the same results with both of those CPUs.

Yes Core i5 has lower consumption and if you care about it just buy Core i5 2500K. But for others the higher multithreaded performance is more important and they will be better with the FX CPU.

The point im trying to make here is that at current prices, when OCed, the FX CPUs up to 8120 are competitive in price/performance.

here you go...239.99 10 bucks cheaper than the fx and has 8 threads

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115083

Its also interesting when you mention overclocking that its competitive.Im going to take a wild guess and think that maybe you dont know how well sandys overclock also?

if you want to start about overclocked performance there is no AMD chip in the line up that can compete with a overclocked sandy.

EVEN IN ZIP 7 lol

 

[Avalon]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/22/un-cities-mega-regions

If you aren't living in a major city, you are doing it wrong. Nobody to blame but yourself.

Sorry, but that's pretty ignorant. Not everyone likes living in a big city. On top of that, not every big city has a Microcenter. There are none in Florida. Orlando, Tampa, Miami, and Jacksonville are all huge cities, bigger than half the ones that Microcenter operates in. I live in Orlando and I'm 400+ miles away from one.

 

[blckgrffn]

I disagree, but I suppose all I have to disagree with are anecdotes as well

I am not trying to argue that everyone who lives in the woods is a technophobe and everyone in the city is a computer enthusiast, but I do think it's shortsighted to say that there is no association at all. I do not think there would be an even distribution.

I work at a software company in St. Paul and there are coworkers here who don't have home computers or Internet. Really.

Young people going to schools trump jobs, IMHO. Schools have loads of computers or technology as easy band-aid compared to improving teachers (OBVIOUSLY, this is my opinion, if it offends you sorry but I think the one laptop/iPad per student pushes are ridiculous.) There are Colleges and Universities everywhere and they have ample Internet access.

There are tiny communities with local Telco Coops that have fiber to the home. We just don't hear about them as they are not "battleground" locations with big cable companies.

Actually, the Internet has done more to democratize the consumption of technology more than any other innovation, IMHO. You can be a software engineer in the middle of nowhere if you want.

The problem with that is that rather than "outsource" to the rural areas companies seem happy to send the job right out of the country.

The only reason I really commented on this here is that this "hillbillies out in the country" attitude that many seem to have (who have likely never even been in rural America) annoys me to no end. To see this idea propagated here (rather than other places, like Daily Tech) pulled my response trigger And yes, I am from a rural area in Iowa. My home town has a population of ~300 and we had 512Kb DSL out to our farm (4 miles from town) in 2002.

I'd argue that we have an even distribution of hillbillies with no interest in technology as well Seriously.

This is pretty far afield of the original purpose of this thread, so I won't debate this here further.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sorry, but that's pretty ignorant. Not everyone likes living in a big city. On top of that, not every big city has a Microcenter. There are none in Florida. Orlando, Tampa, Miami, and Jacksonville are all huge cities, bigger than half the ones that Microcenter operates in. I live in Orlando and I'm 400+ miles away from one.

That's because Florida is full of old folks, and we all know that old folks are technophobes. Thus no MC.

 

[Chiropteran]

here you go...239.99 10 bucks cheaper than the fx and has 8 threads

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115083

Its also interesting when you mention overclocking that its competitive.Im going to take a wild guess and think that maybe you dont know how well sandys overclock also?

That CPU has a locked multiplier, you won't be doing very much overclocking with it.

http://communities.intel.com/thread/22538

 

[Avalon]

That's because Florida is full of old folks, and we all know that old folks are technophobes. Thus no MC.

Fairly amusing, 6/10.

 

[blckgrffn]

Fairly amusing, 6/10.

This, actually, made me lol.

 

[IGemini]

Speaking as one that the OP implies doesn't have easy access to MC, I default to Newegg suggestions. It would take me 4 hours to get to MC and I'm not willing to deal with NYC traffic for it, though I've been to the one in Valley Forge a few times. But geography isn't my reasoning.

Microcenter is a great place especially in having the best CPU prices, but sometimes their selection is a little lacking. Cases in particular come to mind: they have a lot of Full and Mid towers, but they also have a few crappy mid-towers and not a lot of SFF options. Maybe I've had HTPCs on the brain for a while with helping a friend decide their new computer but I tend to recommend the egg first by selection, then MC if they have access. I know if I was within driving distance of MC, I'd order from both.

 

[grkM3]

That CPU has a locked multiplier, you won't be doing very much overclocking with it.

http://communities.intel.com/thread/22538

It turbos to 3.6 and the next xeon goes to 3.7 and is 260 ish,those to get bang for the buck performance when needing to run multy threads that use 8 threads since atrena switched it on me and went from a gaming setup to a system made for multy threads and now he is talking about over clocking performance.

If he wants to get into the overclocking aspect of it the 2600k or an es xeon will dominate in that segment.

 

[grkM3]

Speaking as one that the OP implies doesn't have easy access to MC, I default to Newegg suggestions. It would take me 4 hours to get to MC and I'm not willing to deal with NYC traffic for it, though I've been to the one in Valley Forge a few times. But geography isn't my reasoning.

Microcenter is a great place especially in having the best CPU prices, but sometimes their selection is a little lacking. Cases in particular come to mind: they have a lot of Full and Mid towers, but they also have a few crappy mid-towers and not a lot of SFF options. Maybe I've had HTPCs on the brain for a while with helping a friend decide their new computer but I tend to recommend the egg first by selection, then MC if they have access. I know if I was within driving distance of MC, I'd order from both.

Ohh totally forgot about traffic....Boston rush hour :wub:

you better hope that micro 4 hours away from you has that chip instock lol imagine making that trip with your wife and kids and them not having a board or cpu instock because that gamer kid that lives in the city ran in a grabbed the last one 5 min before you got there lol

 

[Chiropteran]

I work at a software company in St. Paul and there are coworkers here who don't have home computers or Internet. Really.

Young people going to schools trump jobs, IMHO. Schools have loads of computers or technology as easy band-aid compared to improving teachers (OBVIOUSLY, this is my opinion, if it offends you sorry but I think the one laptop/iPad per student pushes are ridiculous.) There are Colleges and Universities everywhere and they have ample Internet access.

There are tiny communities with local Telco Coops that have fiber to the home. We just don't hear about them as they are not "battleground" locations with big cable companies.

Actually, the Internet has done more to democratize the consumption of technology more than any other innovation, IMHO. You can be a software engineer in the middle of nowhere if you want.

Lies. How can you buy a computer if you don't have a Microcenter? Don't say newegg either, because you have to buy your first computer at some point, good luck buying a computer online when you don't have a computer to get online with

I was half joking there, but it is true to a degree. For some people, serious enthusiasts, we will find a way. We will get a computer one way or another, even if we have to live in the middle of nowhere. But there is a whole other category of people, would-be "casual" computer users. They can be influenced. They might have a mild interest in the idea of owning a computer, and if they live in a city and everyone is talking about computers, that can tip them over the edge and get them to buy one. On the other hand if they live out in the middle of nowhere, don't have that extra pressure to buy a computer, they won't Even more so if they get interested in computers and then realize they can't buy one anywhere nearby but have to drive 6 hours to get to a computer store.

As far as college, it's kind of a special case. While the college might be out in a relatively small town, the students come from all over and regularly return home for holidays or whatnot. They have access to a city in ways that someone who lives 100% of the time in a small town doesn't.

But anyway, I only said there is an association. I suspect (would be willing to bet even) that overall, people in cities and broadband supported areas are more likely to spend more money on computers, on average, than people in smaller towns far from cities and locations without broadband coverage. There will always be some outliers and exceptions to the rule, but not enough to throw off the average.

Sorry, but that's pretty ignorant. Not everyone likes living in a big city. On top of that, not every big city has a Microcenter. There are none in Florida. Orlando, Tampa, Miami, and Jacksonville are all huge cities, bigger than half the ones that Microcenter operates in. I live in Orlando and I'm 400+ miles away from one.

Hey, not everyone likes going to work either. But for most people, the negatives are outweighed by the positives of getting money, health care, and not being homeless.

In the same way living in a city has both negatives and positives. If you don't want to live in a city, more power to you, but don't blame me when you pay more for computer hardware, can't get broadband, don't have 24 hour grocery stores, and you can't find a good job.

 

[IGemini]

you better hope that micro 4 hours away from you has that chip instock lol imagine making that trip with your wife and kids and them not having a board or cpu instock because that gamer kid that lives in the city ran in a grabbed the last one 5 min before you got there lol

This is why I save my MC buys for when I visit my friend in PA. Much easier when the trip is a 10-minute ordeal.

 

[Chiropteran]

It turbos to 3.6 and the next xeon goes to 3.7 and is 260 ish,those to get bang for the buck performance when needing to run multy threads that use 8 threads since atrena switched it on me and went from a gaming setup to a system made for multy threads and now he is talking about over clocking performance.

If he wants to get into the overclocking aspect of it the 2600k or an es xeon will dominate in that segment.

Why did you mention overclocking and link to a CPU that can't overclock?

If you wanted to recommend the 2600k, why did you link to a Xeon?

/confused

 

[Edrick]

Ohh totally forgot about traffic....Boston rush hour :wub:

you better hope that micro 4 hours away from you has that chip instock lol imagine making that trip with your wife and kids and them not having a board or cpu instock because that gamer kid that lives in the city ran in a grabbed the last one 5 min before you got there lol

It costs me $4 in tolls to cross the bridge to get to MC (even thought I am only 5-10 minutes from it). Then I have to pay 6.5% tax. So sometimes I just order from Newegg (free ship and no tax) if the price difference is only $20 or so.

 

[grkM3]

I built my first computer before there was any www.coms and there were no computer stores back then.

there were computer shows and there were people that would go and buy trays and sell them.

My first computer that I built was a 386 and those parts were bought at computer expos and there was no net back then,not even aol

after that I went to a 486sx and my (guy)that had a hook up at wang or whatever company it was was getting tray pentium cpus and I bought it grey market for 200 bucks back in the ealry 90s,this was my guy and most people back then were buying stuff from word of mouth and people they met at shows.I made huge hookups at the local ham radio shows/fairs and those guys all had hookups.

I remember my friend wanting a pentium chip and board and it felt like I was making a drug deal happen lol.

 

[grkM3]

Why did you mention overclocking and link to a CPU that can't overclock?

If you wanted to recommend the 2600k, why did you link to a Xeon?

/confused

we weer going back and forth and it should of been a an unlocked sandy but you can do the few bins higher oc on those unlocked chips,nothing crazzy but for the money that 8 thread xeon is basically a 2600 thats 100 bucks less

 

[Edrick]

My first computer that I built was a 386 and those parts were bought at computer expos and there was no net back then,not even aol

The young generation really has no idea what life was like back then.

 

[grkM3]

The young generation really has no idea what life was like back then.

not even cell phones and everything was just knowing people that knew people that had hookups.

man I miss going to those shows and looking what everyone was selling.I cant explain that feeling to these new guys.

You would read about the stuff in mags and newspapers and then finally see it in person years later at an electronics market.

I paid 180 dollars for 4mb of ram back then,I needed it to play mortal kombat 1 on my pc,it was the first time when I needed to upgrade my 486 to play a game and my mom wouldnt help me out at all and spent all summer saving to buy another stick of ram to play the game.

My custom FAST pc for the time that Ibuilt was a 486 sx 25mhz with 4mb of ram,a game card(to hookup a joystick)and a 120mb harddrive.later on I got a 8 bit sound card and an overdrive 80mhz cpu

 

[blckgrffn]

The young generation really has no idea what life was like back then.

Haha, I'll be thirty before long and this still predates me

And also - MC is new to being the go-to B&M to get deals on CPUs/MB. For the longest darn time it was Fry's and all the jerks who lived near them that got revel in the free motherboards, etc.