kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 30,462
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Me, I like capitalism. I think capitalism can survive without propping up tyrants, and I'd rather blame the men that push it to security-pressing extremes. I'm no peacenik, but I'll take blood over business models anytime.
I get the impression you didn't get my Iran reference, a country that gives us a relatively recent example of your:
Or was it not funny?
I get the impression you didn't get my Iran reference, a country that gives us a relatively recent example of your:
Or was it not funny?
Give the House Of Saud a break. After all they abolished slavery in 1962. What more do you want ?
What more do you want ?how far have you studied the sharia? Or is it because your schools brainwash you to believe that?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
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I've studied it pretty intensely, and witnessed it first-hand in more than one locale, for many years.
AFAIC, Sharia Law will never have a place in our modern world - and those who practice it will themselves never have a productive role in the modern world.
One of America's greatest achievements was our separation of church and state. We have yet to perfect or complete the separation, as I believe Christianity still plays too large a role in our politics as well, but we're certainly light years ahead of most of the world.
I also regard ALL organized religion as the largest threat to mankind... so go figure.
Which university have you studied it at? Which locales have you visited? I have a productive role in society and I follow the shariah strictly. I'm afraid you are misguided and arrogant. If it wasn't for us muslims you would NEVER have advanced as far in science as you have. Most of your works are based on Greek and Islamic science. So to say they can not have a role in the "modern world" is total BS! unless you claim human beings have changed much in a thousand years.
Arguably, the west has the worst moral society in the world. It's going to depend whichever way you look at it. I believe that Capitalism is the largest threat to mankind, not religion. Take away religion and you take away morals. The moral that murder is a vice is derived from religion. If human instincts were the governors of law; murder would be as common as adultery. We've already had Hiroshima, Nagasaki and now the Iraq war that has been an example of mass murders in which religious morals have not been enough in stopping them. What's stopping anyone from declaring your constitution as void and replacing it with a new piece of paper that legalizes murder for whatever reasons? Your constitution was not carved out of thin air but its clauses are based on what your founders borrowed from the prior Abrahamic religions.
But I'm not going to achieve much arguing with you. It seems like the university you visited has not taught you that to have an weight on your opinions; you need facts to back it up.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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several major universities in the U.S.
I have witnessed the negative impact of Sharia Law, first-hand, in Egypt, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Syria.
sure you do.
perhaps.
Not to make light of what I consider great contributions by ancient Muslims, but how has it worked out for you and yours during the last 300 years, or so?
mod·ern /'m?d?rn/ - [mod-ern] ?adjective
1. of or pertaining to present and recent time; not ancient or remote
You said it: arguably. That's your religion-driven perception. I also see your treatment of women, prisoners, and especially "infidels," as extremely immoral - much more so than alcoholism, nasty song lyrics, or naked chicks on TV.
Wrong. I know plenty of Atheists, and Deists (such as myself), who derive their morality from intense introspection, and their own personal sense of right vs. wrong, good vs. bad, and always trying to do the right or good thing.
Religion is NOT a requirement for morality and goodness.
Under the category of Religious Preference, my military dog-tags read: "BEGOODTOPEOPLE."
In your neck of the woods, murder IS as common as adultery! Murder in the name of religion is still murder.
Common sense, decency, and democracy. Notice how "religion" is not on that list?
Which were themselves borrowed from paganism and other ancient forms of spirituality and morality... etc etc. What's your point?
Our founders also made it quite clear that no single religion should become the basis of our government. Their forethought in doing so allowed us to excel and prosper in the modern world.
I guess we went to similar schools then... :roll:
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 30,462
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- 136
TheGreenBean, I noticed you've completely avoided my response to you; should we take that to mean your concern for the treatment of women, or perhaps more importantly to you the image of Sharia, begins where Pakistan's borders end?
You're proclaiming others as misguided and ignorant, yet you're comparing Hiroshima and Nagasaki with Iraq?? Don't worry, you're not arguing with anyone, just making yourself look indoctrinated. Your take on the founding of our country and Constitution leaves much to be desired as well; you make no mention of the Native American tribes like the Seneca, Huron and Fox which influenced our founding fathers not only in warfare, but in government.
Please, try to look at this from a less personal perspective and you might make a little more sense.
Syria, really? Syrian women have it comparatively good compared to the some of the other countries you mentioned, and the widespread acceptance of alcohol there kinda differentiates their views from their neighbors. Should I ask what you saw?
Damn straight.
You're proclaiming others as misguided and ignorant, yet you're comparing Hiroshima and Nagasaki with Iraq?? Don't worry, you're not arguing with anyone, just making yourself look indoctrinated. Your take on the founding of our country and Constitution leaves much to be desired as well; you make no mention of the Native American tribes like the Seneca, Huron and Fox which influenced our founding fathers not only in warfare, but in government.
Please, try to look at this from a less personal perspective and you might make a little more sense.
Syria, really? Syrian women have it comparatively good compared to the some of the other countries you mentioned, and the widespread acceptance of alcohol there kinda differentiates their views from their neighbors. Should I ask what you saw?
Damn straight.
1prophet
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 5,313
- 534
- 126
For all those bashing on Green Bean, remember the United States has allowed Sharia Law to be implemented in Iraq as well as giving strength to Islamists over the years due to its policies.
From the State Department.
Women had more rights under Sadaam.
If this is the type of democracy we are spreading we are doing a great disservice to the world.
From the State Department.
Women had more rights under Sadaam.
If this is the type of democracy we are spreading we are doing a great disservice to the world.
There are many interpretations of Sharia laws.
Therefore anyone who claims that Sharia laws as a whole is crap has no knowledge of Islam at all.
So go sit in the corner away from this thread.
& just browsing this thread... Syria? Who the hell said Syria? Look at the first lady of Syria before you make such crap claims. Whoever said Syria is just spitting crap out of their ass and has never stepped foot inside Syria.
Therefore anyone who claims that Sharia laws as a whole is crap has no knowledge of Islam at all.
So go sit in the corner away from this thread.
& just browsing this thread... Syria? Who the hell said Syria? Look at the first lady of Syria before you make such crap claims. Whoever said Syria is just spitting crap out of their ass and has never stepped foot inside Syria.
Totally disagree with this. Organized religion has nothing to do
with morals. They are about control, power.
Less religion, less religious problem.
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 30,462
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Irrelevant. You make the assumption of knowing our stances on US foreign policy concerning Iraq, not that it would even apply to what we're talking about. I'm having trouble with the asking of him to elaborate on his seemingly hypocritical stance somehow constituting "bashing." The closest thing to that here was started by Bean himself, denouncing others as 'misguided and arrogant,' so please point your conduct-sensitive lens in his direction, if you would be so kind.
1prophet
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 5,313
- 534
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It's not irrelevent it's called hypocrisy since neocons helped create radical Islamists and helped implement sharia in Iraq under the guise of democracy,
and feel free to start a topic in order to enlighten us on our stances on US foreign policy concerning Iraq since I don't recall you ever starting an original post but you are quick to jump on others posts.
ya ya ya..the whole world is crazy
When I lived in the middle east/africa if the women got bratty I took my belt to there bare butt. abusive? they didn't really think so. they sure didn't run away, if anything they respected me more............
but doing such thing had it draw backs, they would get posesive and expected you to marriage them
was I Oppressive? heck NO ! just the opposite, I would get on them for not doing something with there lives , including not going to school, I paid for there education sometimes
When I lived in the middle east/africa if the women got bratty I took my belt to there bare butt. abusive? they didn't really think so. they sure didn't run away, if anything they respected me more............
but doing such thing had it draw backs, they would get posesive and expected you to marriage them
was I Oppressive? heck NO ! just the opposite, I would get on them for not doing something with there lives , including not going to school, I paid for there education sometimes
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
Extreme sunni Islam has taken root throughout many of the more remote areas of eastern Syria, contrary to anything Aimster might think or say.
As is the case in most Islamic nations, areas far from the centers of power tend to migrate toward various twisted forms of Sharia Law...
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
If you honestly believe that "neocons helped create radical Islamists," then you're out of your f'n mind.
Please read up on British control of many Muslim lands, and various fanatics throughout the history of Islam... and then come back to us when you've realize that fanatical Islam has nothing to do with Bush and Cheney.
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 30,462
- 45,080
- 136
What is wrong with you? Did you not read anything I wrote to GreenBean? Why are you hung up on insinuating I somehow approve of this admin's conduct in Iraq, and that it bears any significance to what I asked GreenBean? Go and pick a fight with someone else kiddo, you're letting some bizarre fixation get the better of you. Try to remember that I'm not the one calling for regime change over my religious standards not being fulfilled to my specification. Capiche?
Now I'm seriously wondering if you've been hitting the sauce tonight. Why the fook should what you do or don't remember be my problem? Other regulars here are hundreds of times more faster on the headlines than I am nowadays, wtf is it you? Take your arbitrary standards and cram them the same place you got that faux indignation; you not being smart enough to follow a simple line of debate is no skin off my back.
Which ones? At what levels?
I've been to all those countries and except Afghanistan and all those countries except the Sauds do not follow the Sharia. Obviously there will be a negative impact of Sharia where you have oppressive regimes like those in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. But the bad implementation of sharia law does not mean that sharia law itself is bad. The problem we have today in discussing sharia law with an open mind is that 95% of all laws are based on western systems and western values and thus the message of the sharia escapes most.
Do you mean to say that the human race has changed so drastically that the old styles of thinking and governance are invalid today? Please explain why you think that.
If we made great contributions in the past, there is no reason why we can not make them today. However the circumstances are different. It's not Sharia law (heck it's not even in practice in most of the Islamic world) but in-fighting. Instead of solving problems in a civilized manner by discussion and debate, people now revert to violence. One reason of that could be that Islam has turned into a tool for controlling people rather than a religion. If we attain peace, we can attain our former glory. Instead of fighting for peace, muslims of today are fighting for war and terrorism. However, I have no doubt we are much better off than we were 70 years ago after the fall of the Ottomans.
A personal sense of right VS wrong does not exist. Why is it that people who have better parents and visit better schools have better morals and values than those that aren't blessed with either of the two? You can not learn morals you your own; you have to be taught by society. Good in the America is very different from good in Sub-Saharan Africa where they had human sacrificial rituals until not too long ago. And the further society mutates from the established norms the further they are a risk to themselves.
Yes it's a sad fact but it has nothing to do with Sharia. Murder and adultery are both illegal.
Common sense, decency, and democracy. Notice how "religion" is not on that list?[/quote]
You seem to have lost the fact that America is hardly 300 years old. And I'm sure there has been a change in what you call "common sense, decency and democracy." 20 years ago the patriots act would have been deemed undemocratic. But here you have it. These values can easily mutate further and you would have new norms and values. For eg. Adultery a 100 years ago would have been unacceptable. Today it is a "necessity"
Who decided what was right and what was wrong? Right and wrong are subjective question; not objective.
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