90 lashes? But I was raped!

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: kage69
TheGreenBean, I noticed you've completely avoided my response to you; should we take that to mean your concern for the treatment of women, or perhaps more importantly to you the image of Sharia, begins where Pakistan's borders end?

I've always been against the fact that despite independence 60 years ago our political system is still the same that we inherited from the British. We do not practice Sharia law and that maybe one reason why women are treated the way they are. However, the federal laws do not extend to the tribal regions where most of these crimes are taking place.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: dahunan
unrelated male alone? WTF??? that is a crime? Talk about sickness ...

Using the media... they are lucky women don't kill the sick bastards that make these disgusting laws.. I would rather kill the freaks who create these laws than waste my time using the media

..Allah says it's a mans world.

It's ignorant comments like these that...

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1prophet
It's not irrelevent it's called hypocrisy since neocons helped create radical Islamists and helped implement sharia in Iraq under the guise of democracy,

If you honestly believe that "neocons helped create radical Islamists," then you're out of your f'n mind.

Please read up on British control of many Muslim lands, and various fanatics throughout the history of Islam... and then come back to us when you've realize that fanatical Islam has nothing to do with Bush and Cheney.

You mean that our freedom struggle against the British was "fanatical" and western colonization was "liberal?" :roll:

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Do you mean to say that the human race has changed so drastically that the old styles of thinking and governance are invalid today?

Yes.

/thread

If we made great contributions in the past, there is no reason why we can not make them today.

If you continue refusing to evolve and accept the societal changes throughout the world, then no, you (Islamists) will never contribute anything worthwhile ever again.

One reason of that could be that Islam has turned into a tool for controlling people rather than a religion.

You need to realize that Islam, like all organized religions, has always been a "tool for controlling people."

If we attain peace, we can attain our former glory.

Wrong, it will take more than peace. It will take an acceptance of the common practices throughout the civilized world. Once you realize that, and accept it, you and your people will finally be able to move forward.

I personally don't think you ever will.

Instead of fighting for peace, muslims of today are fighting for war and terrorism. However, I have no doubt we are much better off than we were 70 years ago after the fall of the Ottomans.

oh ya, you guys are doing just peachy! Please list one stable Islamic state...

A personal sense of right VS wrong does not exist.

bullsh1t. It just takes a bit of introspection and a willingness to formulate an opinion not written and prescribed by some silly ancient book.

Why is it that people who have better parents and visit better schools have better morals and values than those that aren't blessed with either of the two?

I would argue with that premise based on the number of great people I've met who are exceptions to those rules.

You can not learn morals you your own; you have to be taught by society.

So says the brainwashed student of Islam who has been taught, like a robot, to be afraid of free thought and individualism.

And the further society mutates from the established norms the further they are a risk to themselves.

Once again, so says the brainwashed student of Islam who has been taught to be afraid of free thought and individualism.

Yes it's a sad fact but it has nothing to do with Sharia. Murder and adultery are both illegal.

How many wives can a Muslim man have legally? oh ya...

You seem to have lost the fact that America is hardly 300 years old.

...and yet here we are leading the free and civilized world... imagine that!

And I'm sure there has been a change in what you call "common sense, decency and democracy." 20 years ago the patriots act would have been deemed undemocratic. But here you have it. These values can easily mutate further and you would have new norms and values. For eg. Adultery a 100 years ago would have been unacceptable. Today it is a "necessity"

Where the hell is adultery a "necessity"?! Contrary to popular belief throughout the world, thanks in part to President Clinton's idiocy, adultery is NOT "acceptable" in America. In fact, it's illegal in all 50 states, DC, and the US territories.

Who decided what was right and what was wrong? Right and wrong are subjective questions; not objective.

Which is exactly why they should not be derived from any ancient books of poetry.

You might be catching on.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: kage69
Syria, really? Syrian women have it comparatively good compared to the some of the other countries you mentioned, and the widespread acceptance of alcohol there kinda differentiates their views from their neighbors. Should I ask what you saw?

Extreme sunni Islam has taken root throughout many of the more remote areas of eastern Syria, contrary to anything Aimster might think or say.

As is the case in most Islamic nations, areas far from the centers of power tend to migrate toward various twisted forms of Sharia Law...

You've never been to Syria.

Are you denying what I wrote, or merely trying to question my personal history?

I know where I've been and what I've seen. If you care to argue the actual points, then please do so.

You claim to have been everywhere.

I am saying you are full of sh!t. I'm calling you out.

:shocked: LOL!!! :shocked:
...

......

..........

OK...now that I've stopped laughing at you...

Would you care to address the points I made, or will you persist on "calling me out" like some sort of internet clown?!

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Yes.

/thread

LOL that was a dumb answer. Care to explain why you say so? Or is it a fact just because your schools make you believe that?

If you continue refusing to evolve and accept the societal changes throughout the world, then no, you (Islamists) will never contribute anything worthwhile ever again.

You are full of hot air. Instead of repeating what your schools have told you, explain why you believe that!

You need to realize that Islam, like all organized religions, has always been a "tool for controlling people."

High school dropout?

I personally don't think you ever will.

More claims based on nothing. You must be a liar! You claim to have been to several respected universities but give it all away when you show how you don't even know how to conduct a discussion. Explain!!

oh ya, you guys are doing just peachy! Please list one stable Islamic state...

All are relatively stable except Iraq and Afghanistan.

bullsh1t. It just takes a bit of introspection and a willingness to formulate an opinion not written and prescribed by some silly ancient book.

you can not formulate an opinion without basing in on the measures and facts you have learned previously.

I would argue with that premise based on the number of great people I've met who are exceptions to those rules.

Agreeing that those are rules is a start.

So says the brainwashed student of Islam who has been taught, like a robot, to be afraid of free thought and individualism.

Why should I be afraid of free thought? It is you that is scared seeing how stubborn you are.

Once again, so says the brainwashed student of Islam who has been taught to be afraid of free thought and individualism.

Is that how they taught you to conduct debates at the numerous universities that you have studied at? When you have nothing to say you tackle who is saying it instead of what. And you don't even have any idea about what you are saying.

How many wives can a Muslim man have legally? oh ya...

4

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1prophet
It's not irrelevent it's called hypocrisy since neocons helped create radical Islamists and helped implement sharia in Iraq under the guise of democracy,

If you honestly believe that "neocons helped create radical Islamists," then you're out of your f'n mind.

Please read up on British control of many Muslim lands, and various fanatics throughout the history of Islam... and then come back to us when you've realize that fanatical Islam has nothing to do with Bush and Cheney.

You mean that our freedom struggle against the British was "fanatical" and western colonization was "liberal?" :roll:

No you dolt, I was referring to the crazy whackjobs throughout Islamic history who have misinterpreted and twisted the Qur'an to serve their own fanatical agendas...AND the chaos created/inspired by British rule, of formerly Islamic lands, throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Taqi ad-Din Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah... Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab... the Qutb brothers... and, of course, the embodiment of all of the others, the infamous Ayman Zawahiri and his butt-buddy Osama bin Laden.

And those are just the tip of the fanatical iceburg that has absolutely nothing to do with "teh evul neocons" as 1prophet would have you believe...

Islamic fanaticism is a disease born from within Islam itself.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Yes.

/thread

LOL that was a dumb answer. Care to explain why you say so? Or is it a fact just because your schools make you believe that?

If you continue refusing to evolve and accept the societal changes throughout the world, then no, you (Islamists) will never contribute anything worthwhile ever again.

You are full of hot air. Instead of repeating what your schools have told you, explain why you believe that!

You need to realize that Islam, like all organized religions, has always been a "tool for controlling people."

High school dropout?

I personally don't think you ever will.

More claims based on nothing. You must be a liar! You claim to have been to several respected universities but give it all away when you show how you don't even know how to conduct a discussion. Explain!!

oh ya, you guys are doing just peachy! Please list one stable Islamic state...

All are relatively stable except Iraq and Afghanistan.

bullsh1t. It just takes a bit of introspection and a willingness to formulate an opinion not written and prescribed by some silly ancient book.

you can not formulate an opinion without basing in on the measures and facts you have learned previously.

I would argue with that premise based on the number of great people I've met who are exceptions to those rules.

Agreeing that those are rules is a start.

So says the brainwashed student of Islam who has been taught, like a robot, to be afraid of free thought and individualism.

Why should I be afraid of free thought? It is you that is scared seeing how stubborn you are.

Once again, so says the brainwashed student of Islam who has been taught to be afraid of free thought and individualism.

Is that how they taught you to conduct debates at the numerous universities that you have studied at? When you have nothing to say you tackle who is saying it instead of what. And you don't even have any idea about what you are saying.

How many wives can a Muslim man have legally? oh ya...

4

nice selective responses...

I particularly like the part where you accused America of somehow allowing adultery to become an immoral "necessity," and then you turn around and admit that Islamic Sharia Law allows its male followers to have four wives...

CLASSIC!

You're beyond hope TGB.. and, sadly, you're not alone. You are living proof that organized religion is the biggest and most dangerous threat to mankind.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: kage69

It's not irrelevent it's called hypocrisy since neocons helped create radical Islamists and helped implement sharia in Iraq under the guise of democracy

What is wrong with you? Did you not read anything I wrote to GreenBean? Why are you hung up on insinuating I somehow approve of this admin's conduct in Iraq, and that it bears any significance to what I asked GreenBean? Go and pick a fight with someone else kiddo, you're letting some bizarre fixation get the better of you. Try to remember that I'm not the one calling for regime change over my religious standards not being fulfilled to my specification. Capiche?

and feel free to start a topic in order to enlighten us on our stances on US foreign policy concerning Iraq since I don't recall you ever starting an original post but you are quick to jump on others posts.

Now I'm seriously wondering if you've been hitting the sauce tonight. Why the fook should what you do or don't remember be my problem? Other regulars here are hundreds of times more faster on the headlines than I am nowadays, wtf is it you? Take your arbitrary standards and cram them the same place you got that faux indignation; you not being smart enough to follow a simple line of debate is no skin off my back.

Aww personal insults, because you can't answer a simple question, but I expect nothing less from hecklers in the audience like yourself, but its ok it is quite scary to get on stage.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1prophet
It's not irrelevent it's called hypocrisy since neocons helped create radical Islamists and helped implement sharia in Iraq under the guise of democracy,

If you honestly believe that "neocons helped create radical Islamists," then you're out of your f'n mind.

Please read up on British control of many Muslim lands, and various fanatics throughout the history of Islam... and then come back to us when you've realize that fanatical Islam has nothing to do with Bush and Cheney.

Neo cons go much further back then Cheney or Bush, and the deals that were cut to prevent another oil embargo which allowed the Saudi's to spread their version of Islam.

As to Iraq why did the US allow implementation of sharia law?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Neo cons go much further back then Cheney or Bush, and the deals that were cut to prevent another oil embargo which allowed the Saudi's to spread their version of Islam.

Once again... I was referring to the crazy whackjobs throughout Islamic history who have misinterpreted and twisted the Qur'an to serve their own fanatical agendas, as well as the chaos created/inspired by British rule, of formerly Islamic lands, throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Taqi ad-Din Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah... Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab... the Qutb brothers... and, of course, the embodiment of all of the others, the infamous Ayman Zawahiri and his butt-buddy Osama bin Laden.

"The Saudi's version of Islam" didn't even come from Saudi Arabia to start with... While they all claim roots back to Mohammed himself, Wahhabis are, for the most part, a subset of the Salafists who were prevelant in Egypt throughout the 19th century...

"teh evul neoconzers" had absolutely nothing to do with the fanatical disease that grew within Islam over the last 500 years, or more.

But hey, blaming Bush for everything sure is trendy and fun, eh?! Keep it up!

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
nice selective responses...

I particularly like the part where you accused America of somehow allowing adultery to become an immoral "necessity," and then you turn around and admit that Islamic Sharia Law allows its male followers to have four wives...

CLASSIC!

You're beyond hope TGB.. and, sadly, you're not alone. You are living proof that organized religion is the biggest and most dangerous threat to mankind.

Perhaps you should go to a real university to help you get rid of the ignorance that plagues you. You sound like someone trying to say: a=b therefore c=d. You still haven't replied to my queries on which "universities" you studied at and at what level you studied islamic law or any religion for that matter. But I guess atheism does bring with itself lying at will.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Neo cons go much further back then Cheney or Bush, and the deals that were cut to prevent another oil embargo which allowed the Saudi's to spread their version of Islam.

As to Iraq why did the US allow implementation of sharia law?

Once again... I was referring to the crazy whackjobs throughout Islamic history who have misinterpreted and twisted the Qur'an to serve their own fanatical agendas, as well as the chaos created/inspired by British rule, of formerly Islamic lands, throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Taqi ad-Din Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah... Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab... the Qutb brothers... and, of course, the embodiment of all of the others, the infamous Ayman Zawahiri and his butt-buddy Osama bin Laden.

"Teh evul neoconzers" had absolutely nothing to do with the fanatical disease that grew within Islam itself over the last 500 years, or more.

But hey, blaming Bush for everything sure is trendy and fun, eh?! Keep it up!

I am not interested in blaming Bush for everything, but the question that no-one wants to answer.

As to Iraq why did the US allow implementation of sharia law?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: palehorse74
nice selective responses...

I particularly like the part where you accused America of somehow allowing adultery to become an immoral "necessity," and then you turn around and admit that Islamic Sharia Law allows its male followers to have four wives...

CLASSIC!

You're beyond hope TGB.. and, sadly, you're not alone. You are living proof that organized religion is the biggest and most dangerous threat to mankind.

Perhaps you should go to a real university to help you get rid of the ignorance that plagues you. You sound like someone trying to say: a=b therefore c=d. You still haven't replied to my queries on which "universities" you studied at and at what level you studied islamic law or any religion for that matter. But I guess atheism does bring with itself lying at will.

I'm not an Atheist. Try to keep up.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
As to Iraq why did the US allow implementation of sharia law?

[/quote]
As I already stated, Sharia Law takes hold in many Islamic areas that are far from the centers of power. In the case of Iraq, "far from" can be taken to mean just about anywhere due to the current weaknesses of the central power.

Therefore, it's no surprise that some villages and neighborhoods have implemented some aspects of Sharia Law. And, if it helps keep the peace, why should we stop it from happening, at least for the time being?

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1prophet
As to Iraq why did the US allow implementation of sharia law?

As I already stated, Sharia Law takes hold in many Islamic areas that are far from the centers of power. In the case of Iraq, "far from" can be taken to mean just about anywhere due to the current weaknesses of the central power.

Therefore, it's no surprise that some villages and neighborhoods have implemented some aspects of Sharia Law. And, if it helps keep the peace, why should we stop it from happening, at least for the time being?[/quote][/quote]





According to the state department it is the law of the land not just some villages and neighborhoods.
From the State Department.

Iraqi Laws and Procedures
<The Iraqi Social Status (civil) Law follows the Islamic Sharia (Islamic legislation). Under Islamic law, an Iraqi Muslim female may not marry a non Muslim male. However an Iraqi Muslim male may marry a Muslim, Christian, or Jewish female.


Marriage of a Muslim to a Non-Muslim
Muslim women in Iraq are legally prohibited from marrying a non-Muslim. Therefore, the non-Muslim male must convert his religion to Islam and file a petition with the Social Status Court to declare that he is Muslim. Muslim men in Iraq are permitted to marry non-Muslim women if they are Christian or Jewish only. If the woman belongs to any other religion, she must convert to Islam.

Women had more rights under Sadaam.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
According to the state department it is the law of the land not just some villages and neighborhoods.
From the State Department.

Iraqi Laws and Procedures
<<<<The Iraqi Social Status (civil) Law follows the Islamic Sharia (Islamic legislation). Under Islamic law, an Iraqi Muslim female may not marry a non Muslim male. However an Iraqi Muslim male may marry a Muslim, Christian, or Jewish female.


Marriage of a Muslim to a Non-Muslim
Muslim women in Iraq are legally prohibited from marrying a non-Muslim. Therefore, the non-Muslim male must convert his religion to Islam and file a petition with the Social Status Court to declare that he is Muslim. Muslim men in Iraq are permitted to marry non-Muslim women if they are Christian or Jewish only. If the woman belongs to any other religion, she must convert to Islam.

Women had more rights under Sadaam.

The implementation of those "laws" is still very scattered and regional in Iraq. Now, as to why we would allow their legal bodies to erect such laws in the first place, I have no idea... But i imagine it has something to do with letting them decide on their own, somewhat democratically, how they will govern their country.

I do not believe that many of the Iraqis I interacted with would prefer to live under true Sharia Law. Many/most of them were quite willing and ready to embrace western-style democracies - with certain cultural differences, of course...

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1prophet
According to the state department it is the law of the land not just some villages and neighborhoods.
From the State Department.

Iraqi Laws and Procedures
<<<<The Iraqi Social Status (civil) Law follows the Islamic Sharia (Islamic legislation). Under Islamic law, an Iraqi Muslim female may not marry a non Muslim male. However an Iraqi Muslim male may marry a Muslim, Christian, or Jewish female.


Marriage of a Muslim to a Non-Muslim
Muslim women in Iraq are legally prohibited from marrying a non-Muslim. Therefore, the non-Muslim male must convert his religion to Islam and file a petition with the Social Status Court to declare that he is Muslim. Muslim men in Iraq are permitted to marry non-Muslim women if they are Christian or Jewish only. If the woman belongs to any other religion, she must convert to Islam.

Women had more rights under Sadaam.

The implementation of those "laws" is still very scattered and regional in Iraq. Now, as to why we would allow their legal bodies to erect such laws in the first place, I have no idea... But i imagine it has something to do with letting them decide, somewhat democratically, how they will govern their country.

I do not believe that many of the Iraqis I interacted with would prefer to live under true Sharia Law. Many/most of them were quite willing and ready to embrace western-style democracies - with certain cultural differences, of course...

Thanks for your answer and keep up the good work.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: kage69
Syria, really? Syrian women have it comparatively good compared to the some of the other countries you mentioned, and the widespread acceptance of alcohol there kinda differentiates their views from their neighbors. Should I ask what you saw?

Extreme sunni Islam has taken root throughout many of the more remote areas of eastern Syria, contrary to anything Aimster might think or say.

As is the case in most Islamic nations, areas far from the centers of power tend to migrate toward various twisted forms of Sharia Law...

You've never been to Syria.

Are you denying what I wrote, or merely trying to question my personal history?

I know where I've been and what I've seen. If you care to argue the actual points, then please do so.

You claim to have been everywhere.

I am saying you are full of sh!t. I'm calling you out.

:shocked: LOL!!! :shocked:
...

......

..........

OK...now that I've stopped laughing at you...

Would you care to address the points I made, or will you persist on "calling me out" like some sort of internet clown?!

You are nothing but frontline infantry.
Stop acting like you are some special guy that the U.S sends all over the M.E.

You have never been to Syria. Everything you've said is a bunch of B.S.
When your imagination becomes reality then start posting again.

To win an argument you always say "I have been there". Yeah right.

 

[Andyb23]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: kage69
Sharia is oppressive to women, be it Wahabi flavored Sharia or otherwise.

QFT!

how far have you studied the sharia? Or is it because your schools brainwash you to believe that?

I've studied it pretty intensely, and witnessed it first-hand in more than one locale, for many years.

AFAIC, Sharia Law will never have a place in our modern world - and those who practice it will themselves never have a productive role in the modern world.

One of America's greatest achievements was our separation of church and state. We have yet to perfect or complete the separation, as I believe Christianity still plays too large a role in our politics as well, but we're certainly light years ahead of most of the world.

I also regard ALL organized religion as the largest threat to mankind... so go figure.

Which university have you studied it at? Which locales have you visited? I have a productive role in society and I follow the shariah strictly. I'm afraid you are misguided and arrogant. If it wasn't for us muslims you would NEVER have advanced as far in science as you have. Most of your works are based on Greek and Islamic science. So to say they can not have a role in the "modern world" is total BS! unless you claim human beings have changed much in a thousand years.

Arguably, the west has the worst moral society in the world. It's going to depend whichever way you look at it. I believe that Capitalism is the largest threat to mankind, not religion. Take away religion and you take away morals. The moral that murder is a vice is derived from religion. If human instincts were the governors of law; murder would be as common as adultery. We've already had Hiroshima, Nagasaki and now the Iraq war that has been an example of mass murders in which religious morals have not been enough in stopping them. What's stopping anyone from declaring your constitution as void and replacing it with a new piece of paper that legalizes murder for whatever reasons? Your constitution was not carved out of thin air but its clauses are based on what your founders borrowed from the prior Abrahamic religions.

But I'm not going to achieve much arguing with you. It seems like the university you visited has not taught you that to have an weight on your opinions; you need facts to back it up.

This is so ridiculous.

I love how you are holding Islamic "contributions" over westerners heads.

Lets look at those 'accomplishments'. Most of them were done by Greece and India INCLUDING so called "Arabic numerals". Which are actually Indian.

The only thing the Islamic empires did was retain ancient ideas which were lost in Europe due to the dark ages.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Andyb23

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: kage69
Sharia is oppressive to women, be it Wahabi flavored Sharia or otherwise.

QFT!

how far have you studied the sharia? Or is it because your schools brainwash you to believe that?

I've studied it pretty intensely, and witnessed it first-hand in more than one locale, for many years.

AFAIC, Sharia Law will never have a place in our modern world - and those who practice it will themselves never have a productive role in the modern world.

One of America's greatest achievements was our separation of church and state. We have yet to perfect or complete the separation, as I believe Christianity still plays too large a role in our politics as well, but we're certainly light years ahead of most of the world.

I also regard ALL organized religion as the largest threat to mankind... so go figure.

Which university have you studied it at? Which locales have you visited? I have a productive role in society and I follow the shariah strictly. I'm afraid you are misguided and arrogant. If it wasn't for us muslims you would NEVER have advanced as far in science as you have. Most of your works are based on Greek and Islamic science. So to say they can not have a role in the "modern world" is total BS! unless you claim human beings have changed much in a thousand years.

Arguably, the west has the worst moral society in the world. It's going to depend whichever way you look at it. I believe that Capitalism is the largest threat to mankind, not religion. Take away religion and you take away morals. The moral that murder is a vice is derived from religion. If human instincts were the governors of law; murder would be as common as adultery. We've already had Hiroshima, Nagasaki and now the Iraq war that has been an example of mass murders in which religious morals have not been enough in stopping them. What's stopping anyone from declaring your constitution as void and replacing it with a new piece of paper that legalizes murder for whatever reasons? Your constitution was not carved out of thin air but its clauses are based on what your founders borrowed from the prior Abrahamic religions.

But I'm not going to achieve much arguing with you. It seems like the university you visited has not taught you that to have an weight on your opinions; you need facts to back it up.

This is so ridiculous.

I love how you are holding Islamic "contributions" over westerners heads.

Lets look at those 'accomplishments'. Most of them were done by Greece and India INCLUDING so called "Arabic numerals". Which are actually Indian.

The only thing the Islamic empires did was retain ancient ideas which were lost in Europe due to the dark ages.

There are many Islamic contributions to science:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_science

A number of modern scholars, notably Robert Briffault, Will Durant, Fielding H. Garrison, Alexander von Humboldt, Muhammad Iqbal, Abdus Salam, and Hossein Nasr, consider modern science to have begun from Muslim scientists, who were pioneers of the scientific method and introduced a modern empirical, experimental and quantitative approach to scientific inquiry. Some scholars, notably Donald Routledge Hill, Ahmad Y Hassan,[3] Abdus Salam,[4] and George Saliba,[5] have referred to their achievements as a "Muslim scientific revolution".[6][7]

And their contributions to the arts are far greater. However this being a technology based forums most people here are too "l33t" to understand the arts. For examples their contributions to the writing in general; their detailed recording of history which had not been done before, poetry (including the Quran which I doubt any of you have studied for its literature), the development of Semitic languages, philosophy...

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

I do not believe that many of the Iraqis I interacted with would prefer to live under true Sharia Law. Many/most of them were quite willing and ready to embrace western-style democracies - with certain cultural differences, of course...

Then why don't they step up and take on those who are trying to force Sharia on them? If those who supposedly want a Western Style Democracy were as pro active as those who don't there'd be no need for us to be there.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: kage69
Syria, really? Syrian women have it comparatively good compared to the some of the other countries you mentioned, and the widespread acceptance of alcohol there kinda differentiates their views from their neighbors. Should I ask what you saw?

Extreme sunni Islam has taken root throughout many of the more remote areas of eastern Syria, contrary to anything Aimster might think or say.

As is the case in most Islamic nations, areas far from the centers of power tend to migrate toward various twisted forms of Sharia Law...

You've never been to Syria.

Are you denying what I wrote, or merely trying to question my personal history?

I know where I've been and what I've seen. If you care to argue the actual points, then please do so.

You claim to have been everywhere.

I am saying you are full of sh!t. I'm calling you out.

:shocked: LOL!!! :shocked:
...

......

..........

OK...now that I've stopped laughing at you...

Would you care to address the points I made, or will you persist on "calling me out" like some sort of internet clown?!

You are nothing but frontline infantry.
Stop acting like you are some special guy that the U.S sends all over the M.E.

You have never been to Syria. Everything you've said is a bunch of B.S.
When your imagination becomes reality then start posting again.

To win an argument you always say "I have been there". Yeah right.

you, my fact-averse friend, are wrong. Once again you have proven to everyone here that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about; so, when faced with facts that are difficult to argue, you immediately attack the poster.

Come on Aimster, address the following statements:

Extreme sunni Islam has taken root throughout many of the more remote areas of eastern Syria, contrary to anything Aimster might think or say.

As is the case in most Islamic nations, areas far from the centers of power tend to migrate toward various twisted forms of Sharia Law...

And, for the record, I have not been everywhere...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

I do not believe that many of the Iraqis I interacted with would prefer to live under true Sharia Law. Many/most of them were quite willing and ready to embrace western-style democracies - with certain cultural differences, of course...

Then why don't they step up and take on those who are trying to force Sharia on them? If those who supposedly want a Western Style Democracy were as pro active as those who don't there'd be no need for us to be there.

I couldn't agree more... but, rest assured, there are many who do step up - it's a slow-rolling snowball at this point.

 

[kage69]

I've always been against the fact that despite independence 60 years ago our political system is still the same that we inherited from the British. We do not practice Sharia law and that maybe one reason why women are treated the way they are. However, the federal laws do not extend to the tribal regions where most of these crimes are taking place.

Thank you for finally answering, even if it was a bit of a cop out. I will agree that most of the violence directed at women in Pakistan occurs in the tribal areas, but let's not pretend those areas aren't utilizing their own form of Sharia. Be that as it may, I still find your notion of regime change abroad over the grounds you cited a tad hypocritical - the phrase "See to your own house before judging your neighbors" seems to apply here.

Aww personal insults, because you can't answer a simple question, but I expect nothing less from hecklers in the audience like yourself, but its ok it is quite scary to get on stage.

The "answers" to your immaterial objection have already been provided, but I suspect you lack the maturity to disclose you finally figured out why you're wrong, which is why you're now acting like a complete ass, and trying to invalidate my input as 'heckling.'
You've ignored pretty much all of my input in this thread, introduced something that doesn't apply, and are now castigating me for not playing along.

Anyone with half a brain reading this thread is probably wondering what meds you're on and why you stopped taking them. By all means, keep talking, this self-portrait of idiocy you're bestowing on the thread is just great!

Get well soon kiddo...