90 lashes? But I was raped!

[jonks]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311848,00.html

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia ? A 19-year-old female victim of gang rape who initially was ordered to undergo 90 lashes for "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape," has been sentenced to 200 lashes and six months in jail for telling her story to the news media.

The new verdict was handed down by Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council following a retrial, the Arab News reported.

The court last year sentenced the six heavily-armed men who carried out the attack against the Shiite woman to between one and five years for committing the crime.

But the judges had decided to punish the woman further for "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media," a court source told the Arab News.

The new verdict issued on Wednesday also toughened the sentences against the six men to between two and nine years in prison.

Saudi Arabia enforces a strict Islamic doctrine that forbids unrelated men and women from associating with each other, bans women from driving and forces them to cover head-to-toe in public.

The case has angered members of Saudi Arabia's Shiite community. The convicted men are Sunni Muslims, the dominant community in the oil-rich Gulf state.

********************

If an accurate account, crap like this make's it so much more difficult to keep defending Islam as a religion of peace, and, well, sanity. This is not a few council elders in a rural village of Pakistan, this is the government of Saudi Arabia.

I think one of the judges was overheard saying "How do we beat the bitch? Like this." Course Laura Bush was over there recently and said, well, it's just their culture. Spoken like a true woman's right's activist.

 

[techgamer]

fubar

 

[eits]

maybe they're giving women a little too much credit. maybe they figure that women are physically the far superior gender and could easily beat down an attacker. that's what the lashing is for... to remind them to quit being weak. it's like modern-day sparta.

 

[StageLeft]

This is madness!

 

[Jaskalas]

Now that is torture. Who wants to gleefully compare us to that?

 

[UNCjigga]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
This is madness!

Madness? This. Is. REPOST!

[yes I know this is a more appropriate forum!]

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Now that is torture. Who wants to gleefully compare us to that?

By the Bush administration definition of torture ("only the most extreme forms of physical and mental harm, akin to death or organ failure"), 200 lashes most certainly is NOT torture.

By the Bush standard, giving 200 lashes to a detainee would merely be "aggressive" interrogation.

 

[magomago]

Here is a "pre emptive post" about what I wrote in that other thread...although I'm sure Muslim bashes will try to ignore it.

There are two things here that should be brought up - which a few of you did

1) What she was punished for
2) The actions that followed through later

She wasn't punished for being raped- read the article and she was punished for the following:

a) Being in a car with an unrelated male
b) Trying to influence the court case through use of the media

The first law just screams of classic Saudi idoicy. Don't blind yourself thinking it has anything to do with Islam, it doesn't. There is nothing in the Quran (is there even in the hadith?!?!edit : actually I can now think of instances where it says to avoid being alone with people of the opposite sex if you aren't related to them. Obviously getting raped is part of that worry, although even within a family it can happen. That said - each situation is different and we clearly can't apply it the same in every situation especially in cases like business, or meetings, etc.) that should restrict this at all, absolutely nothing. Its just the classical male dominated chauvinist Saudis trying to force their viewpoint on their own population. In almost every single other country (maybe some of the conservative emirates of UAE are like this as well) there isn't this stupid restriction. What you are dealing with is not Islam, it is "Saudism"

The second sounds like a wonderful totalitarian system. The government increased punishment because it doesn't want information to spread around. Again - to call out religion would be wrong...its a totalitarian system pure and simple. Remember - the Saudis were never elected to power by any of the arabs there...they were effectively put in and gained their security and power through a deal with the good ol USA who promised to help "preserve" their power so as long as we got oil out of it.

The actions that followed through was rape. She was not punished for being raped- the men who raped her are being punished for it. Quite a few years (IMO if it was my choice in CLEAR cases where it is rape I would have very little sympathy for men , especially in a gang rape...) are given to them. Best case scenario is they serve out the entire sentence, worst case is they are quietly let out after a month and a half. It is about what people get here (at least for Cali)
http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...=20071111172035AALVKdK

Assuming no aggravating factors (e.g., use of a firearm, infliction of injury, prior convictions)

The maximum sentence for forcible rape is eight years in prison.

The maximum sentence for child molestation is eight years in prison.

The maximum sentence for unlawful sexual intercourse at those ages is four years in prison.

You cannot just add these all together. It is unlikely that a 261.5 sentence could be made consecutive to either of the other offenses. If the two other offenses were ordered to be served consecutively, the maximum term would be ten years in prison.

* 1 day ago

Source(s):
30+ years as a criminal defense attorney.

I would hope that no one here has sympathy for the men. I would also hope that everyone agrees those laws are pretty stupid and should not exist - they are clearly chauvinist towards women and express the current highly totalitarian system of the Saud regime. But we shouldn't make the mistake to mix this with the religion, because that just creates more problems and mis understanding

 

[The Green Bean]

Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: magomago
The first law just screams of classic Saudi idiocy. Don't blind yourself thinking it has anything to do with Islam, it doesn't. There is nothing in the Quran (is there even in the hadith?!?!edit : actually I can now think of instances where it says to avoid being alone with people of the opposite sex if you aren't related to them.

Hmm, I've never come across anything like that. Which I can remember anyways. Any links?

To the educated, this is a pretty obvious case of a misguided, brutal theocracy using the name of a religion to suppress the population. None of this is acceptable in the least when it comes to Islam. None of it should be acceptable to any right-minded person.

 

[teclis1023]

I thought you knew, Shira...

It's okay when we do it. It's okay when our friends with oil do it. When countries like Iraq and Iran do it, then we're morally outraged!

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: magomago
The first law just screams of classic Saudi idiocy. Don't blind yourself thinking it has anything to do with Islam, it doesn't. There is nothing in the Quran (is there even in the hadith?!?!edit : actually I can now think of instances where it says to avoid being alone with people of the opposite sex if you aren't related to them.

Hmm, I've never come across anything like that. Which I can remember anyways. Any links?

To the educated, this is a pretty obvious case of a misguided, brutal theocracy using the name of a religion to suppress the population. None of this is acceptable in the least when it comes to Islam. None of it should be acceptable to any right-minded person.

What are you referring to specifically? Being with a person of the opposite sex? Like I said I'm not exactly positive on this either - either it is in the Quran and I just don't remember, know, or can get a reference, or it isn't. However such a statement like that would surely stick in my head and make me think "....wtf" ....which is why I said that perhaps it is in the Hadith which does have things that are more, imo, whacko. I've often heard of people saying stuff like "A guy and a girl are never alone, there is always a third person and it is the devil bla bla bla" but I'm not sure if that is just a cultural statement that spreads around , or if its Hadith.

Although from your doubt that you haven't come across anything like that...I'm starting to guess maybe it is from Hadith.

 

[dahunan]

unrelated male alone? WTF??? that is a crime? Talk about sickness ...

Using the media... they are lucky women don't kill the sick bastards that make these disgusting laws.. I would rather kill the freaks who create these laws than waste my time using the media

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

It won't.. the USA is Saudia Arabias whore and we would protect Saudia Arabia before we would Taiwan

 

[shadow9d9]

Saudi Arabia is our ally, even though most of the 9/11 hijackers came from there. The U.S. loves them. Why do you hate America?

 

[kage69]

Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

So long as you're willing to take the same stance with your own country - this shit goes down in Pakistan all the time, with the added twist of women getting mutilated with knives or having acid thrown in their faces.

Sharia is oppressive to women, be it Wahabi flavored Sharia or otherwise.

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: kage69

Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

So long as you're willing to take the same stance with your own country - this shit goes down in Pakistan all the time, with the added twist of women getting mutilated with knives or having acid thrown in their faces.

Sharia is oppressive to women, be it Wahabi flavored Sharia or otherwise.

Oppressive treatment of women exists worldwide.

In rural India, baby girls are buried alive or female infanticide, as they are seen as a burden to the family. Not to mention Sati, where after the husband dies, the widow is set on fire.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070705/137/6hqo0.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutee


In China, there is more ratio of men to women due to female infanticde.

http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Saudi Arabia is our ally, even though most of the 9/11 hijackers came from there. The U.S. loves them. Why do you hate America?

It's almost like our country is run by complete morons. We continue to support a country that is the primary source for Islamic terrorists and Islamic terrorist funding, and is one of the most totalitarian and just generally fubar places on Earth...and we invade a country that had little or nothing to do with Islamic terrorism and was a democratic paradise by comparison. Is that about right?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: kage69

Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

So long as you're willing to take the same stance with your own country - this shit goes down in Pakistan all the time, with the added twist of women getting mutilated with knives or having acid thrown in their faces.

Sharia is oppressive to women, be it Wahabi flavored Sharia or otherwise.

Oppressive treatment of women exists worldwide.

In rural India, baby girls are buried alive or female infanticide, as they are seen as a burden to the family. Not to mention Sati, where after the husband dies, the widow is set on fire.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070705/137/6hqo0.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutee


In China, there is more ratio of men to women due to female infanticde.

http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html

Let's face it, most of the world has at best a thin veneer of civilization on top of complete barbarism. As the worlds largest economy and richest consumer base, sometimes I wonder if we should have "moral tariffs" or something similar. In other words, if they can't play nice, then they don't get to play at all. This isn't a military problem, it's an economic one...because we now have a system where countries can jump into the global economy while still acting like it's the 12th century.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: kage69

Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

So long as you're willing to take the same stance with your own country - this shit goes down in Pakistan all the time, with the added twist of women getting mutilated with knives or having acid thrown in their faces.

Sharia is oppressive to women, be it Wahabi flavored Sharia or otherwise.

Oppressive treatment of women exists worldwide.

In rural India, baby girls are buried alive or female infanticide, as they are seen as a burden to the family. Not to mention Sati, where after the husband dies, the widow is set on fire.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070705/137/6hqo0.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutee


In China, there is more ratio of men to women due to female infanticde.

http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html

Are those incidents you quoted because of legal legislation that enforces those things via the government?

 

[kage69]

Oppressive treatment of women exists worldwide.

I'm not sure what this incredibly obvious statement is supposed to add to the thread, but feel free to explain why your examples and links are relevant to the thread topic. Your examples are more cultural in nature than government endorsed dogma to boot (not that I approve of them anyway) which kinda makes them an apples-to-oranges comparison. Regardless, I was addressing the notion of a Pakistani advocating foreign regime change on the grounds of sexist oppression, when Pakistan itself (particularly the mountainous tribal areas) is probably one of the worst places in the world to be a member of the fairer sex.

If you want to start a thread about 'sowing daisies,' or sati, go for it - and I'll see you there!



Unrelated: Another BF2 fan! Exxxcellent!

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: kage69

Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

So long as you're willing to take the same stance with your own country - this shit goes down in Pakistan all the time, with the added twist of women getting mutilated with knives or having acid thrown in their faces.

Sharia is oppressive to women, be it Wahabi flavored Sharia or otherwise.

Oppressive treatment of women exists worldwide.

In rural India, baby girls are buried alive or female infanticide, as they are seen as a burden to the family. Not to mention Sati, where after the husband dies, the widow is set on fire.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070705/137/6hqo0.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutee


In China, there is more ratio of men to women due to female infanticde.

http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html

Are those incidents you quoted because of legal legislation that enforces those things via the government?

Those are due to long lasting cultural traditions of boys being favored over girls because boys can carry on the family name/wealth. In fact the situation is so bad in China that there will be an entire generation of men who will never marry. In some cases young girls and woman are abducted by men to become their wives in rural parts of China.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

It won't.. the USA is Saudia Arabias whore and we would protect Saudia Arabia before we would Taiwan

And you threaten to impose sanctions on other countries when they impose an emergency. Arguably the Saudi regime is more oppressive than the Taliban. They come from the same roots. It's only a matter of time before the people overthrow the king. They won't last long once their oil runs out. The Saudis are a larger threat to Islam than the Zionists of Israel. Despite of their unbelievable wealth, they have done little for the upfiftment of Islamic society. All they care for is being rich and living in luxury while everyone else suffers.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Those people give Islam a bad name. They don't understand the laws and give the impression that the sharia is oppressive. May the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia fall soon.

It won't.. the USA is Saudia Arabias whore and we would protect Saudia Arabia before we would Taiwan

And you threaten to impose sanctions on other countries when they impose an emergency. Arguably the Saudi regime is more oppressive than the Taliban. They come from the same roots. It's only a matter of time before the people overthrow the king. They won't last long once their oil runs out. The Saudis are a larger threat to Islam than the Zionists of Israel. Despite of their unbelievable wealth, they have done little for the upfiftment of Islamic society. All they care for is being rich and living in luxury while everyone else suffers.

AND.. when the people overthrow.. they will probably seek revenge against America for supporting the house of Saud with no care for the citizens

 

[kage69]

Don't worry, if and when it happens we can always blame Carter, right?