8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[Mopetar]

It feels like the only reason to do that is to exaggerate the VRAM issue... when developers, if they are going to bother, would probally prefer to spend time trying to mitigate.

Then they can make their game use less VRAM if they want it to hit those frame rates on 8 GB cards. Don't tell me I'm getting Ultra textures if I'm not getting them and don't mislead me into thinking a card can run those settings when it can't.

How hard is it to make a separate setting that allows the game drop texture quality as opposed to dropping frame-rate if it can't load them in time?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

How hard is it to make a separate setting that allows the game drop texture quality as opposed to dropping frame-rate if it can't load them in time?

Evidently harder than having upscaling and frame generation on by default.

 

[coercitiv]

GeForce RTX 5060 Ti 8 GB review: The days of 8 GB VRAM are over

Spoiler: Games where the 5060Ti 16GB is beating the 8GB variant

 

[coercitiv]

ComputerBase has been advising against buying a current graphics card with only 8 GB of memory for some time now, and this article underlines this point of view very clearly.

If you're looking to purchase a new graphics card for a gaming PC, it must have at least 12 GB of RAM. This applies across all price ranges, but especially if the graphics card isn't even particularly cheap, as is the case with the new GeForce RTX 5060 Ti at €399.

Whether you play in FHD or WQHD doesn't matter with the GeForce RTX 5060 Ti: The graphics card is fast enough for WQHD, which is how Nvidia advertises its product, but the 8 GB model is often overwhelmed. Even in Full HD, noticeable resolution changes are evident, which, while somewhat less intense, are ultimately still quite pronounced. 8 GB isn't future-proof in any way.

Correct settings are dying on the hill as well:

Of course, the argument will again be that you can turn down the texture quality. Yes, of course that's possible, but there are limits here too. In Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, for example, the RTX 5060 Ti with 8 GB only runs properly at the lowest texture setting – and that doesn't look good anymore. And in other games, too, it's usually not enough to reduce the texture switch by one level. It usually has to be several levels, which is quickly apparent on the screen. But for 400 euros, that's simply a no-go.

 

[Rigg]

GeForce RTX 5060 Ti 8 GB review: The days of 8 GB VRAM are over

Spoiler: Games where the 5060Ti 16GB is beating the 8GB variant

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Wizard must have tested with the "correct settings" on Dragon Age while doing his 5060 Ti 8GB bench-marketing.

Spoiler

 

[Rigg]

Correct settings are dying on the hill as well:

Of course, the argument will again be that you can turn down the texture quality. Yes, of course that's possible, but there are limits here too. In Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, for example, the RTX 5060 Ti with 8 GB only runs properly at the lowest texture setting – and that doesn't look good anymore. And in other games, too, it's usually not enough to reduce the texture switch by one level. It usually has to be several levels, which is quickly apparent on the screen. But for 400 euros, that's simply a no-go.

Wizard talking about Indiana Jones settings in the 5060 Ti 8GB review thread:

That is the most difficult one indeed, I spent a bit of time with it. Use: DLSS Quality, Max everything, textures on low, 1440p, gives you an excellent gaming experience, not just "baseline", "ugly" or "terrible"

Textures still look better than most games on low. You can trade textures high and everything else on low, which I found looks much worse, because pop-in and low-poly objects

After this 5060 Ti launch, I now agree with @DAPUNISHER 's stance on benchmark graphs. With reduced texture quality and other VRAM limit related performance issues (that don't show up on graphs) becoming much more common, I think we're at a point now where all GPU reviews need to include game play videos with performance overlays. Charts are no longer adequate. I don't want to rely on reviewers subjective opinions of what looks good when they decide on settings to test with. Especially if they're reducing settings to keep 8 GB cards from 💩 themselves.

 

[jpiniero]

How hard is it to make a separate setting that allows the game drop texture quality as opposed to dropping frame-rate if it can't load them in time?

That's what the games that don't have crazy frame time spikes do. I'm sure it could still be done a lot better... but devs aren't going to bother.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The difference between PCIe 4.0 and 5.0 with the 8GB model in those CB benchmarks may be the most extreme I've seen in a single test suite. it's competing with the RX 6400 and 6500XT; that's terrible company to be in.

Wizard must have tested with the "correct settings" on Dragon Age while doing his 5060 Ti 8GB bench-marketing.

Spoiler

IMO, Hanlon's razor does not suffice as an explanation for his consistently suspect testing results. His CPU testing is every bit as bad e.g. Space Marines 2.

 

[marees]

GeForce RTX 5060 Ti 8 GB review: The days of 8 GB VRAM are over

Spoiler: Games where the 5060Ti 16GB is beating the 8GB variant

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1440p summary at pcie5x

These games cause problems​

ComputerBase tested a total of 27 games. The GeForce RTX 5060 Ti 8 GB ran flawlessly in 12 of them. There were no noticeable or measurable advantages with the 16 GB model. In addition, there were four games where there were measurable differences between the two graphics cards, but these were not noticeable, at least not in the test sequence. However, this does not mean that this remains the case after extended play.

The gaming experience with the RTX 5060 Ti 8 GB on PCIe 5.0

	Flawless	slight impairment (only measurable)	slight impairment (noticeable)	severe impairment (just playable)	unplayable
AC Shadows			✓
Black Myth Wukong		✓
Call of Duty Black Ops 6	✓
Dragon Age					✓
Dragon's Dogma 2		✓
Empire of the Ants	✓
F1 24			✓
Final Fantasy XVI				✓
Frostpunk 2		✓
Ghost of Tsushima	✓
GoW: Ragnarok	✓
Horizon Fortbidden West			✓
Indiana Jones					✓
KCD 2	✓
Lego	✓
MechWarrior 5: Clans				✓
Monster Hunter Wilds				✓
Oblivion Remastered					✓
Outcast	✓
Satisfactory	✓
Senau's Saga Hellblade 2	✓
Silent Hill 2		✓
Spider-Man 2					✓
Stalker 2	✓
Star Wars Outlaws	✓
The Last of Us Part II				✓
Warhammer Space Marine 2	✓
Perfect: No negative effects whatsoever. Slight impairment (not noticeable): Small measurable impact on frame times, not noticeable. Slight impairment (noticeable): Noticeable effects such as lower FPS, but otherwise no problems. Severe impairment (just playable): Playable in itself, but severe, noticeable effects such as lag or significantly lower FPS. Severe impairment (unplayable): Major effects such as much lower FPS, much worse frame times.

 

[Ranulf]

Heh, saw this argument from the TPU forums on this topic, "But can you really be a hardware enthusiast if you don't care about the latest and greatest hardware?".

One must always be excited for next product. Consume and enjoy!

 

[jpiniero]

IMO, Hanlon's razor does not suffice as an explanation for his consistently suspect testing results. His CPU testing is every bit as bad e.g. Space Marines 2.

IIRC, Indy's main issue is the texture cache size and not the detail setting? If you set the cache to the highest setting, you are going to have a bad time on 8 GB. But this doesn't affect the max texture quality.

 

[coercitiv]

But this doesn't affect the max texture quality.

No, it only affects the average texture quality.

 

[poke01]

Finally started Oblivion. Apart from UE5 issues plays well on the 4070 Super at 1440p ultra. The only mod added is the reshade mod.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Heh, saw this argument from the TPU forums on this topic, "But can you really be a hardware enthusiast if you don't care about the latest and greatest hardware?".

One must always be excited for next product. Consume and enjoy!

The 'Are 8GB cards worth it?" thread over there is a comedic troll fest. W1zzard indeed, he has cast a powerful spell on them.

Cheapest 5060 tie 8GB models on Newegg are $419.99. For that money you get the caveats of 8GB, driver issues, and best performance requiring PCIe 5.0, it's adding insult to injury.

 

[igor_kavinski]

it's adding insult to injury.

More like poking a finger inside a pus filled wound

 

[Rigg]

The 'Are 8GB cards worth it?" thread over there is a comedic troll fest. W1zzard indeed, he has cast a powerful spell on them.

Cheapest 5060 tie 8GB models on Newegg are $419.99. For that money you get the caveats of 8GB, driver issues, and best performance requiring PCIe 5.0, it's adding insult to injury.

Lol. I'm not sure what in the hell possessed me to jump into the fray over there, but at some point these people need to get called on their BS. To be honest, I mostly just wanted to give these clowns a healthy dose of Haha reactions. There's a few posters over there who's arrogance is only surpassed by their ignorance.

 

[Rigg]

Apparently calling out a guy with 30K+ posts for arguing in bad faith won't get past the mods for post approval. Or maybe it was for questioning W1zzards testing methodology. Either way I wear my "Low quality post" tag as a badge of honor this day. I'm a little annoyed after spending a bit of time writing it up though.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Those guys are practically married to Nvidia. Honesty almost always backfires in a marriage so they have learned to be smart

 

[Ranulf]

Lol. I'm not sure what in the hell possessed me to jump into the fray over there, but at some point these people need to get called on their BS. To be honest, I mostly just wanted to give these clowns a healthy dose of Haha reactions. There's a few posters over there who's arrogance is only surpassed by their ignorance.

It is a good source of amusement. I've not read further but your point on the 6500xt was good, especially because it was the same performance as a 5500xt and that card had issues with its 4gb vs 8gb variants. We've had obvious examples since December of 2019 of the 8gb vram problem and pci-e bus interface plus card pin size (x8 vs x16 pins).

Edit: Also fun has been watching some of the 3080 10gb owners defending that card's long term value. At least the card was near its msrp, sometimes in the first few months of existance for some people. At one point the 12gb variant was cheaper. I almost bought one.

 

[Rigg]

It is a good source of amusement. I've not read further but your point on the 6500xt was good, especially because it was the same performance as a 5500xt and that card had issues with its 4gb vs 8gb variants. We've had obvious examples since December of 2019 of the 8gb vram problem and pci-e bus interface plus card pin size (x8 vs x16 pins).

For sure. He's had several replies after that and didn't acknowledge or respond to my post at all. I'm guessing he looked it up and realized he was wrong. I was genuinely shocked that someone who's that active on a tech forum could be completely oblivious to the fact that a lack of PCIE bandwidth can cause severe performance issues when you run out of VRAM.

 

[Rigg]

Make sure you all don't skip the 5060 Ti 8GB DOA thread if you want a good laugh. You might miss gems like this:

That is, of course, an opinion. As has been shown by objective testers other than HUB, it's not one supported by merit. 8GB has been fine for long time. It doesn't magically become not fine just because certain people say so. And it certainly doesn't become not fine because of biased sellout's like HUB say so. It also doesn't become not fine because well respected reviewers like J2C and GN say so.

People are aggressively pushing for greater VRAM amounts not because it's not enough to game on but because it's popular opinion. They're doing that instead of looking at objective, meritful testing. It is deliberate misinformation at best and arrogant ignorance at it's worst. People desperately need to go back to that thing called "thinking" rather than knee-jerk reacting with their feelings.

Good lawd that is some next level copium. HUB is a biased sellout deliberately spreading misinformation. J2C is a well respected reviewer doing objective and meritful testing. That's eh...certainly a take.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

For sure. He's had several replies after that and didn't acknowledge or respond to my post at all. I'm guessing he looked it up and realized he was wrong. I was genuinely shocked that someone who's that active on a tech forum could be completely oblivious to the fact that a lack of PCIE bandwidth can cause severe performance issues when you run out of VRAM.

They are the Bizarro world version of our forums. 💩 posters, trolls, and shills get positive reactions from the staff i.e. their posts are encouraged. Replies observing a good level of decorum and debating in good faith are censored if they upset the favorite sons.

72% of the voters (138) in that poll agree 8GB is not enough. But the very vocal small minority in that thread claim to be on the winning side of the issue. That's the backfire effect for you; the more facts and data you give them, the more intractable they become. There is a preponderance of evidence supporting the contention that 8GB should be relegated to entry level pricing.

People are aggressively pushing for greater VRAM amounts not because it's not enough to game on but because it's popular opinion. They're doing that instead of looking at objective, meritful testing. It is deliberate misinformation at best and arrogant ignorance at it's worst. People desperately need to go back to that thing called "thinking" rather than knee-jerk reacting with their feelings.

Projection, shilling, or trolling? I vote all 3.

 

[Ranulf]

Bah, I'd read that DOA thread the other day and the 3070 comparisons to the 4060ti and 5060ti were just craziness. Contrarianism or cope. Oh wow, after almost 3 years the 4060ti at $400 is within 5% of the 3070. 8GB is fine, 128bit is fine! The 5060ti 8gb is still $400 and a mere 12% faster than a 3070, almost 5 years later. Hmm, maybe memory bus and slot bandwidth do matter. But hey, that 3070 was $500! So you save $100 and its slightly faster.

Just go buy a new pcie 5.0 mobo bro!

 

[Rigg]

They are the Bizarro world version of our forums. 💩 posters, trolls, and shills get positive reactions from the staff i.e. their posts are encouraged. Replies observing a good level of decorum and debating in good faith are censored if they upset the favorite sons.

72% of the voters (138) in that poll agree 8GB is not enough. But the very vocal small minority in that thread claim to be on the winning side of the issue. That's the backfire effect for you; the more facts and data you give them, the more intractable they become. There is a preponderance of evidence supporting the contention that 8GB should be relegated to entry level pricing.



Projection, shilling, or trolling? I vote all 3.

I couldn't agree more. I found out first hand about the mod censorship angle this afternoon. My post that got axed was basically a long winded version of the bold part above directed at that guy. I didn't even go scorched earth on him. Meanwhile he's being a complete Richard to anyone who pushes back on him.

All 3 for sure. The projection angle is the most obvious. The arrogance of that dude is impressive. He keeps calling people out for not being objective while simultaneously dismissing any data from HUB or ComputerBase that runs counter to his view. It's not objective data unless he deems it worthy.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think they dig in as much to defend W1z/TPU as anything else. They ride or die with him.