8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[mikeymikec]

Regarding my earlier post and double-checking the VRAM usage on 1080p 'extreme' settings, looks like I was correct. Even during the second introductory cut-scene of Aloy at age 6, it's already over 8GB:

Spoiler

Anyone else finding it a bit strange that TPU thinks the VRAM usage is lower? I didn't go out of my way to try and customise settings any further than the 'extreme' preset, nor do I have anything going on in the AMD control centre (whatever it's called these days, Adrenaline Sugar Rush Exxxtreme Center...).

 

[igor_kavinski]

Regarding my earlier post and double-checking the VRAM usage on 1080p 'extreme' settings, looks like I was correct.

If you downloaded that from somewhere, URL please.

 

[mikeymikec]

@igor_kavinski

I uploaded it, because the screenshot is from my PC.

 

[igor_kavinski]

@igor_kavinski

I uploaded it, because the screenshot is from my PC.

No, I mean what is that utility? Is it built into Windows now?

 

[mikeymikec]

No, I mean what is that utility? Is it built into Windows now?

Pretty decent utility. One thing that's nice about it is that you can point at a section of a graph and it'll give you a read-out of the figure, time index and dominant process causing that usage.

Process Explorer - Sysinternals

Find out what files, registry keys and other objects processes have open, which DLLs they have loaded, and more.

learn.microsoft.com

 

[Iron Woode]

This thread and other reasons is why I upgraded my Zotac GTX 1070Ti to a Sapphire Pulse RX 6800.

The difference is considerable. Temps are similar as well.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Zotac GTX 1070Ti to a Sapphire Pulse RX 6800.

The disparity in GPU horsepower will give someone here FITS!

 

[Golgatha]

The disparity in GPU horsepower will give someone here FITS!

Random Reddit post shows about 2x the performance (even given a 1070 Ti is marginally faster than a vanilla 1070).

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Digital Foundry using incorrect settings with the 3070 at the 6:04 mark in Horizon Forbidden West

 

[SolidQ]

Some details worse on PC than PS5, like Aloy or LoD

 

[BFG10K]

Digital Foundry using incorrect settings with the 3070 at the 6:04 mark in Horizon Forbidden West

Yep, exact same settings with only textures dropped from high (1 notch below max) to medium (2 notches below).

Spoiler

Textures alone change the game from an unplayable stutter-slideshow to ~60 FPS, the textbook definition of running out of VRAM.

Yet another example where the 3070's performance would be fast enough if not crippled by VRAM capacity, just like other 8GB cards (e.g. Callisto Protocol 1080p, 4060TI 16GB is ~90FPS while 8GB is ~20 FPS stutter-fest).

It's been known since 3D acceleration started in the 1990s that texture quality has no performance hit if you have enough VRAM. Absolutely nothing to do with "GPU shading power" claptrap being peddled in this thread.

This is the part where NV "guides" 3070/4060TI 8GB owners to hand over even more money and "upgrade" to 4070 class hardware. Meanwhile 6700XT/6800 owners are enjoying incredible value from their purchase, because they didn't buy a lemon.

Some people on the internet actually defend NV's anti-consumer behavior. Oh...oh...it's totally fine for you to pay NV more money because they under-spec'd your current purchase!

 

[Timorous]

Yep, exact same settings with only textures dropped from high (1 notch below max) to medium (2 notches below).

Spoiler

Textures alone change the game from an unplayable stutter-slideshow to ~60 FPS, the textbook definition of running out of VRAM.

Yet another example where the 3070's performance would be fast enough if not crippled by VRAM capacity, just like other 8GB cards (e.g. Callisto Protocol 1080p, 4060TI 16GB is ~90FPS while 8GB is ~20 FPS stutter-fest).

It's been known since 3D acceleration started in the 1990s that texture quality has no performance hit if you have enough VRAM. Absolutely nothing to do with "GPU shading power" claptrap being peddled in this thread.

This is the part where NV "guides" 3070/4060TI 8GB owners to hand over even more money and "upgrade" to 4070 class hardware. Meanwhile 6700XT/6800 owners are enjoying incredible value from their purchase, because they didn't buy a lemon.

Some people on the internet actually defend NV's anti-consumer behavior. Oh...oh...it's totally fine for you to pay NV more money because they under-spec'd your current purchase!

On that shot Medium looks quite a lot worse than High and that is after youtube compressions gets applied so I would not be surprised if that difference is even larger in person.

But sure save $50 to buy the 8GB 4060Ti rather than the 16GB version because they will offer the same gaming experience until the UE5pocalypse comes along (which won't happen. PS5 will be a target for a long time and with more CPU grunt PCs a 4060Ti 16GB should be capable of offering a smooth 60fps at 1440p pretty reliably, sure you may need to turn down some compute heavy effects but it will always look better than PS5 and perform better than PS5).

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Good to see Vex the zoomer breaking down the 4060 for his cohorts in such a balanced and well considered manner. You can just watch the last 3 minutes or so and get the conclusion. It's not a bad card but he would not recommend it unless they have no other choices. Particularly for all the new gamers and casuals that buy at the price point. Because being forced to find and use "proper settings" is not cool for $300. And something many of them would not know how to do.

It really came down to the 8GB killing it for him. A sentiment almost all of us share. He provides examples, but nothing most of you haven't seen before/are aware of. Mostly how the 3060 isn't much slower when vram isn't an issue, and a better experience when it is. Roasts frame generation on the 4060 too. Points out with how FSR 3 frame gen is coming along maybe even that isn't any real advantage over the 3060.

 

[Ranulf]

Yeah it is a good break down of the card's problems. It really only wins in some situations at 1080p and FG isn't going to save it, nor ray tracing since it really can't handle those things at 1080p and only 8GB of vram.

Apparently it is good at video rendering at least, only 26sec behind a 4080Super in DaVinciResolve.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Apparently it is good at video rendering at least, only 26sec behind a 4080Super in DaVinciResolve.

Oh no! Looks like the driver team will need to introduce a time delay...

Jensen: Don't give them more than they pay for!

 

[psolord]

Or, you know, Nvidia could have spent a few bucks to double the VRAM so the card could actually live up to its potential.

At this point, I'm half convinced you're trolling. You continually ignore historical precedent and many many examples of the issue. Instead, you stick your fingers in your ears, and toss out a few examples where the issue doesn't exist, claiming that since that game with those settings isn't a problem, clearly it's NBD.

You're here to confirm your bias or troll. Which is it?

We are talking about the 4060ti right? So the problem is that the 16GB model should be the only model at the price of the 8GB model? That would be preferable sure, but for the most part, it would have been a waste of silicon. Either you like it or not, 16GBs are mostly useless for the 4060ti as is mostly useless for the 7600XT. I said mostly.

Saying this, is not bias or trolling. I have a very clear position, of how I see 8GB cards and the rest of the cards too. Each one belongs to its tier. Now if you don't like the expensive 8GB cards of the past, well, I didn't like them too and I didn't buy them anyway.

I am defending the general 8GB argument and I have shown time and again, that the framebuffer, is not the uttermost characteristic of a graphics card. I am talking about balances here and correct settings, because these are essential for their usage.

I am not ignoring historical precedent at all. I've been here since the S3 Virge days, as far as 3D accelerators are concerned. Because in general, my first contact with a PC, was back in the Amstrad PC 1512 days and I have been following ever since.

What I am saying, is that the angles you chose to study the 8GB issue, are wrong. The gravity you apply to the situation is also wrong. I am trying to find solutions and not problems. Because I don't know, a freagin 3070, trying to run Forbidden West at 1800P Very high, is of no importance to me and by my standards, this is just trying to use a card out of spec.

We are at a tipping point, where 8GBs will start to get stressed, however there are even worse factors that will come into play, gpu power being the most important. We are now 10 YEARS after the first 8GB card was launched. And where are we at?




The Calisto Protocol. Pretty cool game. New test from gamegpu, with the non Denuvo version. The first and last 8GB cards, have 107% performance difference, with 0% framebuffer difference. Draw me a curve of what is more important, gpu power or framebuffer?

In other news, Hellblade 2 will be 30fps only on XBOX.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775831476845604983

I thought the XSX had quite a lot more than 8GB's right? And it ain't helping when gpu power comes into play? Insert Picachu surprised face. Yes it's UE5.

Also, no one mentioned Brothers A Tale of Two Sons. This is an indie gone UE5. See what happened.

https://www.dsogaming.com/pc-performance-analyses/brothers-a-tale-of-two-sons-remake-benchmarks-pc-performance-analysis/

Good luck hoping more vram will save you. You will use correct settings and you will use the upscalers and say thank you on top of that. Or upgrade anyway.

 

[psolord]

Also regarding this

A bit OT, sadly the Sandys cannot run Forbidden West. It gives a cpu error requiring F16C instructions, lol. My luck. The GTX 1070 will have to wait.

They can run UE5 fine, but noooo, Forbidden west needs F16C.

Turns out that some good people made a no F16C patch, and now forbidden west can run on the Sandys.

This is how it run with Intel SDE's emulator (non monetized hobbyist channel-don't watch if you don't want to make me a millionaire-I will buy more nvidia cards otherwise)

And this is how it runs with the no F16C patch on the same system.

The Sandy's compatibility is a side note and of academic interest. What really matters, for the theme of this thread, is that I used, what would be considered "correct settings" for the GTX 1070, to make it, as playable as it can. Yes maxed textures and anistropy are possible.

This is a 12 minute run, and I provoked enemies to make the run harder. VRAM maxed out at above 7GBs, which I admit is a lot, considering that I used the medium preset basically but with maxed textures. Still, I have tested the game on all three of my 8GB cards now and I am getting vastly different results. The framebuffer is NOT the deciding performance and image quality factor, by a long shot.

 

[MrPickins]

Either you like it or not, 16GBs are mostly useless for the 4060ti as is mostly useless for the 7600XT. I said mostly.

You keep repeating this over and over as though repetition makes it true, and ignore any evidence to the contrary.

You are not arguing in good faith, and this thread no longer amuses me, so I'm out. Have yourself a nice day.

 

[dr1337]

I thought the XSX had quite a lot more than 8GB's right? And it ain't helping when gpu power comes into play? Insert Picachu surprised face.

So you think it would run faster if the XSX only had 8GB of ram?

 

[nurturedhate]

We are at a tipping point, where 8GBs will start to get stressed

This is what we have been saying and what you have been arguing against...

 

[SolidQ]

The Sandy's compatibility is a side note and of academic interest. What really matters, for the theme of this thread, is that I used, what would be considered "correct settings" for the GTX 1070, to make it, as playable as it can. Yes maxed textures and anistropy are possible.

So on my GTX 1070ti should be fine with FSR2 Quality

 

[igor_kavinski]

One wonders if psolord is really scared of 8GB suddenly going the way of the dodo. Almost like he has a whole warehouse full of them somewhere...

Anyone else here from Greece? Is someone there running ads on the TV with the blurb, "8GB is more than enough and more than you could ever need! Call 800-PSOLORD to place your order now!".

 

[BFG10K]

OMG guys, check out how awesome I am.

Spoiler

1080p is clearly "incorrect settings" for a 4060TI, everyone knows it's a 720p card, yo.

Also guys, check it out, 87FPS is the same as 18FPS. And minimums don't matter, so 65FPS 1% low is the same as 10FPS 1% low and proves 16GB is "wasted" on the 4060TI.

Absolutely no difference between the frametime graphs either, no siree.

Guys, guys, we've proven I'm not a liar and I'm not legally blind!

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

My favourite part about the VRAM debate is comparing it to community's consensus around RAM capacity, which is "you can never go wrong with having as much RAM as possible". Remember how much crap (deservedly so) Apple get whenever they announce their new MacBook featuring 8GB RAM as the base configuration? But somehow it's totally fine to charge through the nose for a 4060Ti 8GB.

Jensen's reality distortion field is superior to that of Apple at this point. Amazing.

 

[Timorous]

OMG guys, check out how awesome I am.

Spoiler

1080p is clearly "incorrect settings" for a 4060TI, everyone knows it's a 720p card, yo.

Also guys, check it out, 87FPS is the same as 18FPS. And minimums don't matter, so 65FPS 1% low is the same as 10FPS 1% low and proves 16GB is "wasted" on the 4060TI.

Absolutely no difference between the frametime graphs either, no siree.

Guys, guys, we've proven I'm not a liar and I'm not legally blind!

The issue is that you expect to play a game for hours at a time. The correct way to play is in 1 minute bursts so you don't fill the VRAM buffer. If you just do things correctly rather than doing silly things like expecting to be able to play for more than 5 minutes you will have a great experience.