8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[BFG10K]

Yet another example, Far Cry 6 added to OP:

 

[Aapje]

Also there's JUST a SLIGHT chance that a company that was nearly 100% banned from "officially" reviewing Nvidia products directly due to Nvidia (and only saved by LTT/Linus!) MIGHT be slightly biased.

Or it could be evidence that they are not biased, as it is common for companies to (try to) coerce reviewers into favoring their products. In such an environment, not getting in a conflict with companies can actually be evidence of being bought.

The ban really made Nvidia look bad as:
- They demanded that reviews focus more on RT, that their cards are strong in (despite Hardware Unboxed regularly having done polls showing relatively low interest by gamers). Companies demanding control over editorial decisions by those who seek to inform the public is commonly seen as immoral.
- They claimed to speak for all gamers, AMD and developers, which is absurd and ignores how they have their own interests that don't always match those other groups. It is also easily verifiable that in fact, not all gamers see strong RT support as a key feature.
- They lied about Hardware Unboxed singularly focusing on rasterization, which is a easily verifiable falsehood by checking out the video's that they made over the years
- They acted utterly dishonestly, praising Hardware Unboxed to their face and using quotes from them on Nvidia's site, and then secretly blacklisting Hardware Unboxed until Steve pressed them for clarification on why he was no longer getting cards

Frankly, all your reasoning so far, including essentially victim blaming Hardware Unboxed, suggests rather strongly to me that you are the one with more than a slight bias. Also, you've been extremely abrasive so far, while playing the victim. I don't think that it's a surprise that this thread went off the rails as soon as you came in with all kinds of poorly argued claims, presented in a rather flamebaiting manner. Why not try to lighten up on the aggressive behavior and put more focus on making a strong case for your claims?

 

[MrPickins]

Either you like it or not, 16GBs are mostly useless for the 4060ti as is mostly useless for the 7600XT. I said mostly.

You keep repeating this over and over as though repetition makes it true, and ignore any evidence to the contrary.

You are not arguing in good faith, and this thread no longer amuses me, so I'm out. Have yourself a nice day.

 

[BFG10K]

If they put in the work to support 8GB, then they can actually do a reasonable job of it.

So again I'll ask, who gets to decide when games are allowed to use more than 8GB? Is it you? Or someone else?

Like they have in the past.

Why don't you apply the same standard to other specs from 2014? In 2014 most games called for dual-core CPUs and 4GB system DRAM. Should games in 2023 also be required to support this?

Why is VRAM given special treatment to stay frozen for nine years because a GPU monopoly with bloated profits continues ripping customers off?

And if you are going to launch a product on PC, it may be wise to properly support the vast majority of PC hardware. Having greater than 8GB of VRAM is rarefied territory.

O'rly? You mean like the first ray tracing games that launched when Turing was a drop in the ocean of the GPU market, and almost nothing could run it?

How come developers are allowed to push RT but not high resolution assets which run on anything, but with reduced quality on <=8GB?

 

[blckgrffn]

The issue was never performance at lower settings, it is quality at lower settings. Worse than expected, worse than something 10 years ago, and some games have resolved it with a patch.
It is almost like they had a binary texture setting and skipped everything in-between. Those 8GB frame buffers were looking like 2GB frame buffers.

So the complaint isn't having to run on medium, it was the shocking result when doing so.

Yes. They are going to optimize for current consoles (which have more than 8GB of ram) and then have a setting that works on a potato. Or as close to a potato which they can conceivably support.

Everything between takes time, and time is money. When they can judge future investments based on sales and then release updates if needed, then it's no surprise we've gotten here. This is the natural state of things.

And buying a midrange or better card released in 2023 should take this (this being reality) into account. It's a frustrating and terribly timed regression by nvidia to walk Vram back on the vanilla 60 series.

 

[maddie]

Please ignore this and continue prioritizing the high price info from our very own forum experts on why we can't afford to have cheaper 16GB cards.

3DCenter.org | Hintergründe, Fakten, Analysen zu Gamer-Hardware & IT

3DCenter ist die größte deutschsprachige Grafikkarten-Webseite. Schwerpunkte sind die Berichterstattung über Grafikkarten und andere Hardware für den Gamer, sowie das Thema Benchmarking und Hintergründe zu 3D-Effekten und -Features.

www.3dcenter.org

 

[AtenRa]

You dont need a 900-1000 USD to play BG3, even at 4K (custom settings) the game is playable with 5-6 year old GPUs.

As for DLSS, NVIDIA developed it in order to be able to sell us the cost of integration of Tensor cores in to every GPU they make. It is not free performance, you need Tensor Cores to run DLSS, free performance is from FSR because it runs on plain shaders (that is why it supports older GPUs).
And thats my problem with DLSS, you need dedicated hardware AND gaming support in order to use it. Instead, we could have had more shader performance because at the same silicon size they would use more shaders instead of Tensor Cores and that performance would be used in every game without the need to implement and support preoperatory software.

Also, the problem with the new 8GB cards is not the Vram buffer but the price they are asking for such cards in the middle of 2023. I dont have a problem with 8GB cards at the 200-250 USD price point and bellow, but for 300 USD and above 8GB in the middle of 2023 is just laughable and complete ripoff.

 

[BFG10K]

Counter-Strike 2 on Steam

For over two decades, Counter-Strike has offered an elite competitive experience, one shaped by millions of players from across the globe. And now the next chapter in the CS story is about to begin. This is Counter-Strike 2.

store.steampowered.com

Guys, guys, it's totally fine, CS2 requires only 1GB VRAM. Whew, the VRAM issue is finally "solved!"

 

[mikeymikec]

Excuse no. 10 seems to be getting all the hits at the moment: "Wrong games were tested."

 

[Mopetar]

Weird that a game designed to be able to run on an Xbox Series S which effectively has only 8 GB of VRAM (the other 2 GB has such paltry bandwidth that it would cause performance issues if it were used for VRAM) will also run on PC with only 8 GB of VRAM.

Not only does your recent post miss the point again for reasons that have already been outlined by myself or others, but you've picked a game that the developer would have had to have gone out of their way to sabotage so that it wouldn't run well on 8 GB GPUs on PC.

Astute observations. Most keen. Much wow.

 

[BFG10K]

Guys, guys, looks like NV heard us loud & clear. Introducing 6 GB 3050:

NVIDIA to Launch GeForce RTX 3050 6GB Variant Late 2024 with Lower Specs

NVIDIA is preparing to launch an upgraded version of the GeForce RTX 3050 graphics card. Unlike the original's 8GB of VRAM, this model will sport 6GB and will continue to be based on the Ampere GPU architecture.

www.guru3d.com

I'm thinking of starting a "dual-core CPU and 4GB system DRAM are all you need" thread, then posting 93 screenshots of popular games like Dota to "prove" it.

 

[SolidQ]

Like the whole world is polished to a mirror finish when you turn RTX On

Sometimes looks even worse

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Btw Robocop is playable even on a GTX 1070....*ahem*...with correct settings.

Everything is playable at correct settings.
The question is If you want to play It at those settings.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Everyone in this thread: OMG just give us more than 8GB of RAM for a reasonable amount of money. 12Gb, 16GB whatever. If you're going to stick with 8GB of RAM at least keep the cost around $200 or something...

Psolord: YOU WILL ACCEPT 8GB, USE MY SANCTIONED SETTINGS, PAY THROUGH THE NOSE FOR IT, AND YOU WILL LOVE IT.

 

[Timorous]

OMG guys, check out how awesome I am.

Spoiler

1080p is clearly "incorrect settings" for a 4060TI, everyone knows it's a 720p card, yo.

Also guys, check it out, 87FPS is the same as 18FPS. And minimums don't matter, so 65FPS 1% low is the same as 10FPS 1% low and proves 16GB is "wasted" on the 4060TI.

Absolutely no difference between the frametime graphs either, no siree.

Guys, guys, we've proven I'm not a liar and I'm not legally blind!

The issue is that you expect to play a game for hours at a time. The correct way to play is in 1 minute bursts so you don't fill the VRAM buffer. If you just do things correctly rather than doing silly things like expecting to be able to play for more than 5 minutes you will have a great experience.

 

[Panino Manino]

Amazingly there are still people on the internet claiming 8GB is just fine.

Only Nvidia worshipers.
It's incredible that people are still allowing themselves falling on this Nvidia trap. Another generation that will NOT age like "FineWine".
"BUT DLSS!"
I don't care.

 

[nurturedhate]

I want you to know the 960 2gb card was a great card, the best card ever if I may...







/s

 

[CP5670]

I went through Levitation mod for HL Alyx (excellent mod btw) and it routinely goes to around 20GB on the G2 headset. Alyx seems to use as much memory as available, and just adjusts the resolution down if there is less memory.

 

[amenx]

I think its become clear that 8gb (midrange) GPUs are not capable of running modern games at 4k resolutions at ultra++ settings. Any folks here or anywhere that use their 8gb cards under such scenarios? And not aware of higher tier GPU options designed for those conditions?

Of course there are also many games at 4k that run well at decent settings with 8gb cards (just dont go overboard).

Spoiler

So focus should really be on 1440p and 1080 since these are the most likely resolutions utilized by 8gb GPU owners. 2 years ago (at start of this thread) this was not an issue other than an isolated example here or there being run at some crazy setting (despite still finding the odd contradictions to some of those examples). Yes, the vram is holding you back despite getting over 100 fps.

Spoiler

But for newer games today at 1440p being played with older 8gb GPUs, the GPU manufacturers message is loud and clear, that you must upgrade your cards....... Or ignore them for another year or two and continue to enjoy the vast majority of games @ 1440p that have not yet been hampered by the lack of vram.

 

[maddie]

I really think its totally unacceptable for a GPU at 700 dollars + to have anything less then 12GB of Ram.
Gpu prices these days are insane.
I never thought i would see the day where the GPU would cost more then the CPU + Motherboard + RAM combined, and thats for a SINGLE GPU, and not SLI or X-FIRE.

AND, we're being propagandized & told that they'll lose money at that price.

 

[Spjut]

I don't think John @ Digital Foundry will be doing a PC Hogwarts Legacy analysis.

Spoiler

I see he backed off later in the comments, but that kind of comment makes you reconsider how you look at their site. I only read their analyses and various game developer interviews though, not following their Directs or other content, so perhaps it wasn't a surprise to others.

I have always viewed Digital Foundry as a site focusing on the tech, and not only for AAA games, but other games too where the tech did something exciting, and to see one of their most prominent reviewers suddenly say he won't look at the tech in one of the biggest releases so far this year, simply because he hates both open world and the franchise, just turned my expectations around.

 

[BFG10K]

Computer Base review of The Resident Evil 4 remake: 8GB cards can't do max settings with ray tracing at 1080. Crashes the game due to lack of VRAM.

https://www.computerbase.de/2023-03/resident-evil-4-remake-benchmark-test/3/

The relevant part translated from the article:

The VRAM hunger increases especially when ray tracing is activated, and 8 GB is simply not enough for otherwise maximized details. Even in Full HD, the GeForce RTX 3060 Ti crashes reproducibly within seconds. If the graphics card only has 8 GB of memory, the texture details have to be reduced or ray tracing switched off. Without the rays, 8 GB is sufficient, at least up to 2,560 × 1,440 – ComputerBase has not tested even higher resolutions.

Not only 8 GB are problematic, graphics cards with only 10 GB of memory also fall into the VRAM trap. The GeForce RTX 3080 in Ultra HD with activated ray tracing does not crash regularly, but it does from time to time. The otherwise decent frame rates don't help here, the texture details have to be reduced on the former high-end graphics card.

From 16 GB there are no problems with the memory, but the editors have not yet tested whether 12 GB is sufficient.

So both 10GB and 8GB cards need reduced texture details to stop the crashing, while 16GB cards have no problem. Again, nVidia's "wray traycing" advantage is useless because their cards don't have enough VRAM to use it.

I wonder if this game is also an "anomaly", or perhaps the 3070 is now actually a 720p card, amrite?

And still not a peep out of Digital Foundry with regards to VRAM testing despite them already having two RE4 articles up. What an absolute fraud they turned out to be.

 

[amenx]

For those who want to optimize their 8gb cards (or all cards basically), this is a pretty good optimization channel. He basically tests all settings in popular games and shows fps impact, image quality and other performance stats (on a 3060 ti).

https://www.youtube.com/@benchmarking4386/videos

 

[maddie]

AMD agrees.

Building an Enthusiast PC

Are YOU an Enthusiast? Do you crave the best experiences possible in your games with no expense spared? Are you the type that keeps on top of ‘what is the best GPU’? Do you like to track GPU benchmarks and reviews? At this level of PC building, you should have confidence that you are getting...

community.amd.com

This slide is interesting. Several more on page.

 

[DeathReborn]

Aveum system requirements:

Immortals of Aveum Gets Gameplay Trailer, System Requirements Detailed

Immortals of Aveum just got a nice gameplay "first look" trailer, showing some impressive graphics and gameplay for this fantasy first-person magic shooter from Electronic Arts and Ascendant Studios. EA has also published a new blog post detailing the technology used in the game, as well as...

www.techpowerup.com

Minimum (1080p low/medium settings) calls for a 2080 Super or 5700XT, both 8GB cards. As one of the first UE5 games this is a sign of things to come. But I guess it's yet another "badly optimized console port anomaly", amrite?

But I'm sure 8GB nVidia owners will breath a huge sigh of relief because "aye eye" upscaling from 720p makes it all fine, LMAO.

I found the recommended (1440 medium/high) interesting with the 12GB 3080 Ti but a 16GB 6800XT for AMD. Was the 6750XT too slow, 3080 too little VRAM? A little of both I think, which makes my 3080 obsolete as I aim for 1440p High Refresh/4K 60+.