8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[SolidQ]

Maybe someone will impress

 

[Hitman928]

Maybe someone will impress

First comparison looks better without RTX, imo. The glass/reflection with RTX on actually looks less realistic. The shadows do look better in the second example with RTX on but it is not a big difference and certainly not worth the performance hit.

 

[SolidQ]

The glass/reflection with RTX on actually looks less realistic.

Yeah never saw this in real life, if not super shiny day

I'm laugh about this new marketing b***s**t. Faster light 😁

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Yeah never saw this in real life, if not super shiny day

I'm laugh about this new marketing b***s**t. Faster light 😁

I laughed hard at that. It reminded me of a crappy sequel from when I was a kid. In the movie Arthur 2 On The Rocks, a super rich dude gets all of his inheritance taken away. He and his girl that he gave up the money for are looking for an apartment. He asks the landlord showing the rathole apt. to them, what the IOL feature in the ad in the newspaper meant. The landlord shows him that he was advertising IOL = instant on lighting. As many old buildings had such old wiring back then in NYC that there was a delay between hitting the light switch and the lights coming on.

I know this story probably doesn't translate, but as soon as they talked about faster lighting, I remembered the IOL scene and started laughing.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm laugh about this new marketing b***s**t. Faster light 😁

The processing of RTX lighting appears to produce a delayed response to light changes. In the example video I saw it fade to the new lighting VS a near instant transition.
Whether that is a real before and after comparison, I wouldn't know. New games hardly play smooth, let alone with RTX.

 

[coercitiv]

Full Ray Tracing *, maximum frame rates **.

* ___
** ______

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Yeah classic marketing. Now that there is Ray Reconstruction and path tracing, lets tear down the prior iteration that we already told you was photo accurate lighting.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

First comparison looks better without RTX, imo. The glass/reflection with RTX on actually looks less realistic. The shadows do look better in the second example with RTX on but it is not a big difference and certainly not worth the performance hit.

I really hate that about RT. Like the whole world is polished to a mirror finish when you turn RTX On.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I really hate that about RT. Like the whole world is polished to a mirror finish when you turn RTX On.

I like the approach to ray tracing in the Spiderman games. Though the shadows in MM are a case of the juice not being worth the squeeze. Spiderman 2 looks like a great balance of effects vs performance. I was listening and watching the interview on DF today while making dinner. Really impressive stuff, including the way they created the rooms inside buildings. And how they were able to lower the performance penalty for RT on water.

I'd wager the PC port doesn't run 1080 max with RT and stay in a 8GB frame buffer. Ray tracing is always on in the console version. Will this be one of the few games where it is mandatory for PC? Or will they have a fallback to increase sales?

 

[SolidQ]

Like the whole world is polished to a mirror finish when you turn RTX On

Sometimes looks even worse

 

[BFG10K]

@SolidQ, please wrap your inline images around spoiler tags, they're clogging up the thread. Thanks.

Page 57 - 8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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First screenshot looks like utter garbage. Diners don't reflect windows on their counters like that, because you couldn't see the food if they did.

Second screenshot has barely any difference and doesn't look any better than Unreal 4 games from the last 5 years.

This is the "visual orgasm" that was supposed to justify a 540p requirement? LMAO.

Just curious, are the ray tracing proponents on this forum happy with this direction? Because this is where NV is pushing PC gaming. Even a $2000 4090 requires upscaling to get a decent framerate.

What happened to all the "oh, Steam survey says not many people have > 8GB VRAM, so going higher is stupid!" arguments? Steam survey no longer applies when discussing ray tracing performance on a 4090, amirite?

The processing of RTX lighting appears to produce a delayed response to light changes. In the example video I saw it fade to the new lighting VS a near instant transition.

This is nothing new. The first HDR implementations in the mid-to-late 2000s did this. Walk through an indoor tunnel toward the light at the end and it's extremely bright, and as you get closer it slowly forms more image and less brightness until you get outside.

Some HDR games even do this with simple mouse movement, such as looking at the sky/sun glare and then away, mimicking how your eyes adjust to different light levels.

Hell, the unofficial DX10 renderer for Unreal 1 from 1998 does HDR like that.

 

[coercitiv]

Diners don't reflect windows on their counters like that, because you couldn't see the food if they did.

That's the least of the problems in that scene. Unfortunately Ray Reconstruction is still deleting texture detail, or alternatively the RT scene is using other assets for some of the metal surfaces. The glass istelf is too clear when compared with the raster version, somehting is missing there as well (either texture or some other effect is being muted).

See all the metallic surfaces in the screenshot for an obvious difference in texture detail.

Spoiler: Side-by-side

 

[igor_kavinski]

See all the metallic surfaces in the screenshot for an obvious difference in texture detail.
[/SPOILER]

If someone could extract the textures from the asset files and it becomes clear that two different versions of the textures are being used for RT off and on, damn, wouldn't that be a serious controversy! Tricking gamers into believing that RTX is superior by deliberately degrading raster textures!

 

[SolidQ]

The glass istelf is too clear when compared with the raster version

Cleaning woman came with RTX!

, please wrap your inline images around spoiler tags, they're clogging up the thread. Thanks.

Ok next time will do it

 

[coercitiv]

If someone could extract the textures from the asset files and it becomes clear that two different versions of the textures are being used for RT off and on, damn, wouldn't that be a serious controversy! Tricking gamers into believing that RTX is superior by deliberately degrading raster textures!

The point was that the non-RTX version has superior texture detail, why would you talk about gamers tricked with degraded raster textures?!

 

[igor_kavinski]

why would you talk about gamers tricked with degraded raster textures

Inspired by your comment that some of the metal surfaces may have alternative textures. Of course, it could just be me jumping to the wrong conclusion but it's something worth investigating, don't you think?

 

[Mopetar]

The point was that the non-RTX version has superior texture detail, why would you talk about gamers tricked with degraded raster textures?!

Don't you understand that they're better than native resolution though? And now they're even faster than light!

 

[Ranulf]

So you're saying...Nvidia has gone the plaid?

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

I honestly don’t understand why everyone is so hell-bent on pushing RT reflections. I feel that RT is at its most impactful for global illumination, whereas for reflections high-resolution SSR with cube-maps as a fallback is the way to go.

 

[BFG10K]

4060TI 8GB vs 16GB, fresh benchmarks only a month old (no affiliation to me).

I don't think we've had Forza or Jedi Survivor in this thread yet, so that's two more to the list. If someone counts the thread contents and adds it to the OP, I think we must be close to 30 games now.

Spoiler

 

[igor_kavinski]

I honestly don’t understand why everyone is so hell-bent on pushing RT reflections.

Yeah. Totally unnecessary and expensive eye-candy that does nothing for gameplay and immersiveness. Useless gimmick.

 

[Thunder 57]

4060TI 8GB vs 16GB, fresh benchmarks only a month old (no affiliation to me).

I don't think we've had Forza or Jedi Survivor in this thread yet, so that's two more to the list. If someone counts the thread contents and adds it to the OP, I think we must be close to 30 games now.

Spoiler

Don't worry. I'm sure @psolord will be around soon to say they were playing it wrong.

 

[SolidQ]

Spoiler: 4090 patch tracing 4k DLSS Perfomance(1080p)

Spoiler: PS5 vs PC max

Spoiler: Pure 4k Path Tracing

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Might as well post the whole review:

Alan Wake 2 Performance Benchmark Review - 30 GPUs Tested

Alan Wake 2 is out soon, with incredible graphics, but demanding hardware requirements, too. There's forced DLSS/FSR, but we show you how to tweak the config files to get native back. In our performance review, we're taking a closer look at image quality, VRAM usage, and performance on a wide...

www.techpowerup.com

Raytracing basically causes 8gb cards to collapse (not that performance is particularly good across the board) with a 3060 beating a 3070 ...

at 4K even the 10GB cards collapse (remember, upscaling is on by default and there is no way to turn it off, so this is really more like 1080P).

I'm playing through the OG AW1 right now and its a fun game with a fun setting and hammy but fun story and I'm having a blast, and I think I would have really liked AW2 but between the mandatory upscalers, the brutal performance requirements, and the Epic Store Exclusive forever (barring the EGS collapsing and the games coming to Steam, I mean who would have thought we'd get a Diablo on Steam?) I think I'll just have to look elsewhere.

What AW1 has done is gotten me interested in Control and any potential port of Quantum Break to the PC...

 

[blckgrffn]

Might as well post the whole review:

Alan Wake 2 Performance Benchmark Review - 30 GPUs Tested

Alan Wake 2 is out soon, with incredible graphics, but demanding hardware requirements, too. There's forced DLSS/FSR, but we show you how to tweak the config files to get native back. In our performance review, we're taking a closer look at image quality, VRAM usage, and performance on a wide...

www.techpowerup.com

Raytracing basically causes 8gb cards to collapse (not that performance is particularly good across the board) with a 3060 beating a 3070 ...

at 4K even the 10GB cards collapse (remember, upscaling is on by default and there is no way to turn it off, so this is really more like 1080P).

I'm playing through the OG AW1 right now and its a fun game with a fun setting and hammy but fun story and I'm having a blast, and I think I would have really liked AW2 but between the mandatory upscalers, the brutal performance requirements, and the Epic Store Exclusive forever (barring the EGS collapsing and the games coming to Steam, I mean who would have thought we'd get a Diablo on Steam?) I think I'll just have to look elsewhere.

What AW1 has done is gotten me interested in Control and any potential port of Quantum Break to the PC...

Control is definitely worth it. It's in the top 10% of games I've ever played. It has such a strong identity. I played through on PS5 and it was so solid, and the difficulty options are so gamer friendly. One of the DLC packs is AW1 specific and so I quit playing that as the final DLC on my list it to go play AW.

Of course, that hasn't happened yet, but it could? ha.

Soundtrack is "fire" too - sometimes I still listen to some of the songs on Spotify. That's a truly rare connection for me.

It's inevitable that there will be Control tie-ins and that means I will play AW2 too someday. Just maybe not that close to launch.... a couple years in might mean I am packing more hardware and maybe some concessions on their part to make it run better.