8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
pFJi8XrGZfYuvhvk4952je-970-80.png.webp
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
RE.jpg
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:
CH.jpg

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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BFG10K

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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Quake and 486 Can it be done?

groups.google.com groups.google.com

I stumbled across someone arguing that it's unreasonable for Quake to require a Pentium CPU. It's amazing how relevant comments from 1996 are to this thread.

Just replace "Pentium" / "486" with "8GB VRAM".

I wouldn't declare the 486 "dead" just because ID can't code a game that will run on anything but a Pentium. That's ID's fault. The 486 isn't dead, it'l be aroud for quite a while... it won't however, be _mainstream_.
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I'm simply saying that they should slow down. The fact that their game _requires_ a Pentium to play well is ridiculous, when last year a 486/66 was almost top of the line. But, if that is the way they make the most money...
Click to expand...

Clearly the gospel mantra of emotionally defending hardware has endured the ages. Crusaders gonna crusade, yo.

Also added #21 to the list: Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB VRAM is enough, but will be totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
 
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Saylick

Saylick

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Sep 10, 2012
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BFG10K said:

Quake and 486 Can it be done?

groups.google.com groups.google.com

I stumbled across someone arguing that it's unreasonable for Quake to require a Pentium CPU. It's amazing how relevant comments from 1996 are to this thread.

Just replace "Pentium" / "486" with "8GB VRAM".




Clearly the gospel mantra of emotionally defending hardware has endured the ages. Crusaders gonna crusade, yo.

Also added #21 to the list: Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB VRAM is enough, but will be totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
Click to expand...
People just have an emotional attachment to hardware, especially hardware that markets itself as being the best. When people who buy said hardware, especially at a price premium, thinking they're getting the best but don't get "the best", there's a tendency to defend their purchase to avoid feeling bad. Tale as old as time.
 
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Mopetar

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Jan 31, 2011
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I'm sure there's a clay tablet somewhere out there recounting an argument about how bronze swords are still good enough and who cares what those silly people over the hill are doing with their fancy iron blades. It's probably in a dead language that we can't decipher though.
 
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nurturedhate

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Aug 27, 2011
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Mopetar said:
I'm sure there's a clay tablet somewhere out there recounting an argument about how bronze swords are still good enough and who cares what those silly people over the hill are doing with their fancy iron blades. It's probably in a dead language that we can't decipher though.
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One of the oldest examples of written language we have is a tablet where people are complaining about this new 'writing' thing and everyone would be better off just memorizing everything like they always had to before... We've been doing this with everything since the very beginning.
 
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Ranulf

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Jul 18, 2001
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Next game up on the review board of 8/12GB not being enough? Cities Skylines 2. Possibly. This game type would usually be a cpu hog but this one is almost all gpu limited on release. Min specs are 6700k and gtx 970 4GB, recomended was recently increased to a 12600k/5800X and a rtx 3080 10GB (for 1080p).

Performance is apparently quite bad. 4090's are having trouble hitting 60fps at medium settings in 1440p. Content creators were told to put settings to low and run at 1080p to get the bet performance.

Review links
https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17bmptj
 
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Ranulf

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"Edit 7: FPS drops to single digits when hitting VRAM limit, his testing on 4gb VRAM cards where the game keeps swapping out VRAM data. 8GB is unplayable (really bad 1% lows), GPU with low VRAM is also unplayable. GPU VRAM -> RAM -> GPU -> CPU is the order of bottlneck most people will face. 8GB of vram still getting really bad frame drops. 12 GB VRAM is the minimum for a stable FPS experience."
Comment
byu/IcePopsicleDragon from discussion
inCitiesSkylines
Click to expand...


Edit to add... "potato" level graphics. This could be limted to this game, the unity engine but its looking bad specs wise.

 
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BFG10K

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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SolidQ said:
This is joke, for 960x540 medium setting and 60fps you need 6700\3070:oops:
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Yep, and 12GB VRAM minimum for medium ray tracing at ~900p. Another DX12 "wray traycing" game with mandatory upscaling that runs like utter garbage.

You can see the clear endgame of NV: "guide" everyone to a 4090 or to GeForce Now subscriptions.

Apparently some people are totally happy with this trend and call it "progress". o_O
 
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Thunder 57

Thunder 57

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Aug 19, 2007
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BFG10K said:
Yep, and 12GB VRAM minimum for medium ray tracing at ~900p. Another DX12 "wray traycing" game with madatory upscaling that runs like utter garbage.

You can see the clear endgame of NV: "guide" everyone to a 4090 or to GeForce Now subscriptions.

Apparently some people are totally happy with this trend and call it "progress". o_O
Click to expand...

I think that might indeed be the end goal of Nvidia. Force everyone to a subrscription service. Companies love that model.

I don't think they can make it work though. No amount of "negative latency" will ever fix the problem with distance. Pretty much everyone knew Stadia was DoA. Part of that being because it was Google. I just don't see how it can become a viable replacement a dGPU.
 
coercitiv

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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SolidQ said:
This is joke, for 960x540 medium setting and 60fps you need 6700\3070:oops:
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There's a second edge to this sword: companies that take this route of completely trashing system requirements will still have to sell games in the real world. If we remove the 30 FPS guidance and dial back the DLSS/FSR toggle to Quality or OFF, this game requires RX 6800XT for a pleasant 60FPS experience. It's not clear to me if 1440p native is possible on the RTX 4070, a $700 card from this year. Good luck with that in the current market.

PS: but maybe the graphics are indeed stellar, we'll have to wait and see.

[Later edit] Daniel Owen already on the subject :)

and one of the top replies from the video:
1697872353180.png
 
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Ranulf

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Jul 18, 2001
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SolidQ said:
We're back to 540p, soon we going to 640x480
Click to expand...

All the more reason to go back to CRT screens! And I'm somewhat serious in that. Give me a 1080p CRT that can scale down easily like screens of old for $250 and I'd be tempted.
 
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igor_kavinski

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Jul 27, 2020
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
The problem is not really DLSS/FSR, but gaming companies not doing proper optimization.
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And that is more coz they are hiring developers who are in it for the money, not their passion for making absolutely great games. I've had more than my share of dispassionate application developers who couldn't care less how bad their written code performs. If it works, their job is done. Too slow? Buy faster hardware!
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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SolidQ said:
This is joke, for 960x540 medium setting and 60fps you need 6700\3070
Click to expand...
I think game developers took it personal with the whole "PC Master race" meme, and made an extra effort to spoil nine out of ten existing gaming PCs.
Going to need NEXT gen GPUs to try and reclaim 60 fps at 1080p......
 
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GodisanAtheist

GodisanAtheist

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Most reviewers still test on native resolution, so unless the pub/dev think Alan Wake 2 is going to get hordes of people to update their computers like Crysis did, I expect the game to get massacred come review day.

Guess the dev will just work around a lot of that by auto enabling the appropriate upscaling tech so the end user is none the wiser.

Hell, might be the first game where turning off upscaling isn't even an option.
 
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Timorous

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Oct 27, 2008
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
The problem is not really DLSS/FSR, but gaming companies not doing proper optimization.
Click to expand...

DLSS and FSR give them an excuse to do even less optimisation.

Maybe if it allowed for massively enhanced detail per pixel and the end result was significantly better than titles from 5 / 10 years ago but frankly it is nowhere near.

Edit: at least with Crysis you could actually see why it was so demanding as it was by far the best looking title released.
 
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