8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[wilds]

To be fair, no one should be playing the game at those settings, at least for a few years. Please, for the love of frames, adjust settings downward!

With a 3080 10GB at 1440p I am playing at low-medium settings in 2077. I despise being below 100fps in a first person shooter. I would love to be using the VR mod, but even a 4090 is just pitiful for that as well.

Definitely a game to return to once the 5090 comes out; but by then the 5800X3D will be the bottleneck. Ugh, I never feel like I have fast enough hardware.

 

[Saylick]

With a 3080 10GB at 1440p I am playing at low-medium settings in 2077. I despise being below 100fps in a first person shooter. I would love to be using the VR mod, but even a 4090 is just pitiful for that as well.

Definitely a game to return to once the 5090 comes out; but by then the 5800X3D will be the bottleneck. Ugh, I never feel like I have fast enough hardware.

Jensen, upon hearing those words from his consumers:

 

[psolord]

That's what you have been implying by saying that 8GB is enough and most games don't hit the 8GB VRAM wall.

Where did I say the "instead" part tho? Did you see me quoting a user, asking what to get, and I told him, nah skip 12GB or 16GB, get a 8GB bro!

I am only advocating that 8GB really IS enough, for the majority of games and I am talking about 1080p mostly, since this is the target of these cards. Also I am saying that I own three 8GB cards and they are nothing alike. Framebuffer is not the end all metric of gpu performance. I could also say, that the rest of you are also implying, that all 8GBs cards are equal, while clearly they are not.

===========

In other news, my recent viewing of the gamegpu.tech's benchmarks of Ghostrunner 2, Mortal Kombat 1, The Crew Motorfest, Daymare 1994 and even Cyberpunk 2077 v2.0, indicate no serious problems with 8GB cards. I am not posting screenshots, because people are offended, if for every game posted here, showing problems with extreme settings, you can post 5 other games that show otherwise.

 

[igor_kavinski]

In other news, my recent viewing of the gamegpu.tech's benchmarks of Ghostrunner 2, Mortal Kombat 1, The Crew Motorfest, Daymare 1994 and even Cyberpunk 2077 v2.0, indicate no serious problems with 8GB cards.

That's fine if there is no automatic texture degradation by the game engine.

We do have a few (couple that I know of) gamedevs on these forums. I wish they would chime in.

 

[psolord]

I did find a problem on my 3060ti, in Ratchet and Clank, on the newer 1.922 patch. This popped up when resuming my save.



I am just being honest here, this is a problem. I am a 8GB defender, but if a real problem occurs, I will not hide it.

I am using 1080p/very high preset/dlss quality/rt reflections. However, the problem did not exist on the 1.831 patch. So this is on the dev. Remember how this is a commandment we should not use? Yeah, devs do stupid things all the time. I mean I have a backup of the 1.831 and rerun it and no problem at all.

I will give it to you however. A 12GB user would probably never see this error (for the same settings-if you fool around you will find out). I will check on my 4070ti during the weekend of course. Maybe this is a wider bug. The problem goes away if you disable RT reflections though.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I am using 1080p/very high preset/dlss quality/rt reflections. However, the problem did not exist on the 1.831 patch. So this is on the dev.

I have been arguing this point the whole time. That you're depending on good PC ports for 8GB to work properly in games designed for consoles that have access to 10+ GB of VRAM. I'm not surprised Cyberpunk works great on 8GB cards as CDPR has always been a PC first dev. And I'm not surprised it's a problem on Sony games since their studios are obviously console first devs.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I have been arguing this point the whole time. That you're depending on good PC ports for 8GB to work properly in games designed for consoles that have access to 10+ GB of VRAM.

Yeah makes me wonder why the usual suspects haven't started a thread titled "Console ports are evil because AMD!"

 

[Mopetar]

The console ports suck arguments were beat to death over a decade ago. Most people just accept that you're getting sloppy seconds or don't care because the play games that are largely PC exclusive even if they aren't graphical powerhouses.

It's hard to blame most developers though. The console market is quite lucrative and in many ways bigger than the PC market unless you want to make an F2P game that just milks the player base.

 

[BFG10K]

Counter-Strike 2 on Steam

For over two decades, Counter-Strike has offered an elite competitive experience, one shaped by millions of players from across the globe. And now the next chapter in the CS story is about to begin. This is Counter-Strike 2.

store.steampowered.com

Guys, guys, it's totally fine, CS2 requires only 1GB VRAM. Whew, the VRAM issue is finally "solved!"

 

[psolord]

This is the top ten of currently played games on steam. None of these have vram issues.

Steam Charts - Tracking What's Played

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

Counter Strike 2 is no1 with 969000 players for the last 30days

Counter-Strike 2 - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

Deliver us Mars, that was shown a few days back, which had 3fps framedrops on the 4060ti @1440p/Ultra+RT (lol) has an average of 13 players for the last 30days

Deliver Us Mars - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

The way people are weighing what is important and what is not in this thread, is mind boggling. Keep it up.

 

[Ranulf]

The way people are weighing what is important and what is not in this thread, is mind boggling. Keep it up.

Uh, we're back to my previous question then. What is the point of me buying a new gpu to play those games that don't need it? We're talking CS2 and games like it. They probably run fine on anything from 2013 onward. Maybe 2014-16 for modern driver support at least. My 2060S can run Overwatch2 at 60fps stable (they seem to put fsr 1.0 on automatically amusingly enough) at 65w of power with no fans needed with high visual settings. Sadly to push more than 85fps the fans ramp up to 2k rpm. That might be more the older cpu holding it back.

The point is, it is an indicator that ram will be a near term problem and has been.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

This is the top ten of currently played games on steam. None of these have vram issues.

Steam Charts - Tracking What's Played

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

Counter Strike 2 is no1 with 969000 players for the last 30days

Counter-Strike 2 - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

Deliver us Mars, that was shown a few days back, which had 3fps framedrops on the 4060ti @1440p/Ultra+RT (lol) has an average of 13 players for the last 30days

Deliver Us Mars - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

The way people are weighing what is important and what is not in this thread, is mind boggling. Keep it up.

This kind of post is the definitive proof that you're not arguing in good faith (although you're supplying us with such examples pretty much weekly at this point).

You were told multiple times that any number of games that aren't VRAM limited in no way invalidate that there are dozens of games listed in the OP that exhibit performance and fidelity drops on otherwise very capable GPUs such as 3070, 4060 and 4060Ti due to insufficient VRAM.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

"Our top story tonight is that people play games that they are not having issues with, and fewer people play games that have issues and don't run well on their hardware. Stay tuned for more Bob!"

 

[psolord]

This kind of post is the definitive proof that you're not arguing in good faith (although you're supplying us with such examples pretty much weekly at this point).

You were told multiple times that any number of games that aren't VRAM limited in no way invalidate that there are dozens of games listed in the OP that exhibit performance and fidelity drops on otherwise very capable GPUs such as 3070, 4060 and 4060Ti due to insufficient VRAM.

Uh, we're back to my previous question then. What is the point of me buying a new gpu to play those games that don't need it? We're talking CS2 and games like it. They probably run fine on anything from 2013 onward. Maybe 2014-16 for modern driver support at least. My 2060S can run Overwatch2 at 60fps stable (they seem to put fsr 1.0 on automatically amusingly enough) at 65w of power with no fans needed with high visual settings. Sadly to push more than 85fps the fans ramp up to 2k rpm. That might be more the older cpu holding it back.

The point is, it is an indicator that ram will be a near term problem and has been.

I am just monitoring the subject and I am providing my own arguments. Contrary to how people respond in this thread (applauding pure trolling at times that is), I cannot just gobble up examples that have very little impact, in the grand scheme of things. I would have said nothing, if it was not for that provocative comment above. The guy above, without a provocation, mocked a game that is being played by almost a million people, while he picked up the pitchfork without a second thought, when he saw 3fps drops, on a game that is being played by 13 and with stupid settings to boot. How AM I the one, not arguing in good faith?

I am afraid people have memefied the issue and the focus has been lost. When you buy a graphics card, you buy a range of services and capabilities. More vram is surely better, never disputed that. How bad are really the 8GBs, is my point of focus. I saw a problem in Ratchet above, didn't hesitate to expose it. But for every game the has some problem, there are many more that do not. So for me, in order to evaluate the problem, I need to see how much and how many people are affected and in what way this can be redeemed (with better settings). That is all.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The anachronisms message board dwellers cling to continue. The constant reliance on Steam, as if it is the only game service, has gotten ridonkulous. There are over 15 million PC game pass players. Who knows how many on Epic, EA, GOG, etc. Which means every game that is available for purchase and play on other services isn't only being played on Steam. E.G. Starfield certainly has far more PC players than the Steam stats show.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The anachronisms message board dwellers cling to continue. The constant reliance on Steam, as if it is the only game service, has gotten ridonkulous. There are over 15 million PC game pass players. Who knows how many on Epic, EA, GOG, etc. Which means every game that is available for purchase and play on other services isn't only being played on Steam. E.G. Starfield certainly has far more PC players than the Steam stats show.

-It would be nice if those other launchers were more open about their usage stats wouldn't it? The fact that they're not suggests the numbers aren't all that great..

 

[DAPUNISHER]

-It would be nice if those other launchers were more open about their usage stats wouldn't it? The fact that they're not suggests the numbers aren't all that great..

Let's take a look at what is disclosed shall we? -

The Epic Games Store has over 230 million users. In 2022, the Epic Games Store had 68 million monthly active users, up from 62 million in 2021. The Epic Games Store also has 723 million cross-platform accounts.

Here are some other statistics about the Epic Games Store:

• 31.3 million users access the Epic Games Store daily
• The Epic Games Store has 471 titles
• Gamers spent $700 million in the Epic Games Store in 2020
• The Epic Games Store has an 88%/12% revenue split
• The Epic Games Store offers no-cost services to help bring games to market

World of Warcraft -

• Subscribers: 129,699,677
• Daily Players: 1,232,147
• Genres: RPG, Massively Multiplayer
• Platforms: PC, macOS
• Released: 2004-11-23
• Sauce

5 year breakdown of the numbers by month - https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/stats

Valorant would be the number 2 most played game if it were on Steam -https://tracker.gg/valorant/population

While Overwatch 2 engagement is down from launch. It had over 25 million players in the first 10 days.

https://www.dexerto.com/overwatch/overwatch-2-25-million-players-daily-peak-record-1958947/

Cross platform makes it difficult to precisely nail down PC player numbers for some of these, but any reasonable extrapolation is still going to be impressive. It's clear BATTLE.NET is doing serious numbers. There's a reason Microsoft is memeing $69 billion to take the whole enchilada.

As of April, there were estimated to be over 15 million PC players are on PC gamepass. Thanks to Starfield and the new Forza that lands on the 10th player count is likely to exceed 20 million.

I'll conclude by stating again, Steam isn't enough of a barometer anymore. The landscape of PC gaming continues to change. Steam is invoked to bolster a particular confirmation bias. It's PC gamer dogma and needs to be adapted to being part of an analysis, not THE analysis.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Let's take a look at what is disclosed shall we? -

The Epic Games Store has over 230 million users. In 2022, the Epic Games Store had 68 million monthly active users, up from 62 million in 2021. The Epic Games Store also has 723 million cross-platform accounts.

Here are some other statistics about the Epic Games Store:

• 31.3 million users access the Epic Games Store daily
• The Epic Games Store has 471 titles
• Gamers spent $700 million in the Epic Games Store in 2020
• The Epic Games Store has an 88%/12% revenue split
• The Epic Games Store offers no-cost services to help bring games to market

World of Warcraft -

• Subscribers: 129,699,677
• Daily Players: 1,232,147
• Genres: RPG, Massively Multiplayer
• Platforms: PC, macOS
• Released: 2004-11-23
• Sauce

5 year breakdown of the numbers by month - https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/stats

Valorant would be the number 2 most played game if it were on Steam -https://tracker.gg/valorant/population

While Overwatch 2 engagement is down from launch. It had over 25 million players in the first 10 days.

https://www.dexerto.com/overwatch/overwatch-2-25-million-players-daily-peak-record-1958947/

Cross platform makes it difficult to precisely nail down PC player numbers for some of these, but any reasonable extrapolation is still going to be impressive. It's clear BATTLE.NET is doing serious numbers. There's a reason Microsoft is memeing $69 billion to take the whole enchilada.

As of April, there were estimated to be over 15 million PC players are on PC gamepass. Thanks to Starfield and the new Forza that lands on the 10th player count is likely to exceed 20 million.

I'll conclude by stating again, Steam isn't enough of a barometer anymore. The landscape of PC gaming continues to change. Steam is invoked to bolster a particular confirmation bias. It's PC gamer dogma and needs to be adapted to being part of an analysis, not THE analysis.

- Oh yeah?! Well...

...

...

...

I disagree with your argument because it makes my argument look bad. Goodbye.

 

[psolord]

These are good numbers and since I'm pro PC, I am very glad.

I have to ask tho, since we are in THIS thread. Do War of Warcraft, Valorant, Overwatch 2 and the likes, have Vram problems with 8GB cards?

 

[Mopetar]

One is a 20 year old game and the others are e-sport titles designed to run on as many computers as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if all ran fine with 4 GB of VRAM at 1080p.

 

[fralexandr]

I guess no one needs more than 640KB because one can play solitaire, minesweeper, pong, snake, tetris, and gorillas! Whoever needs more than that is a chump... It's not enough to watch 480p video, but hey it can play some of the most popular games ever!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

One is a 20 year old game and the others are e-sport titles designed to run on as many computers as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if all ran fine with 4 GB of VRAM at 1080p.

They do. I did not even bother with the Coup de grâce in my last post about the importance of Steam being over-inflated and over referenced in late 2023.

Fortnite -

Month	Average Monthly Players	Monthly Gain / Loss	Monthly Gain / Loss %	Peak Players In a Day
Last 30 Days	223,483,387	-7,865,875	-3.00	14,898,892

Those numbers could be off by 20% and it still crushes everything else. It isn't GPU heavy in performance mode, but it needs a decent CPU now.

I didn't respond to the question myself, because it's another red herring. None of these games does anything to refute the premise of the thread. It's been repeated ad nauseum that the premise is correct.

At some point, it would be best to retire this thread, and start a new one with a concise OP including games not out yet. A fresh slate for the discussion would be welcome. This one turned into text book obfuscation. I'll leave it to the reader to discern why that is.

 

[psolord]

This is the VRAM estimation from the new Forza Motorsport game, on my 3060ti, at 1080p/Ultra preset. Yeah, 8GBs are enough, for one more *important* AAA game.



It scored 60fps vsynced on the built in benchmark btw, which seems to be quite heavy... More testing will take place....

edit. To be frank, the benchmark run did show max vram usage though and although the preset is at ultra, many settings show auto, so I will need to see what it is doing in reality.

 

[mikeymikec]

Excuse no. 10 seems to be getting all the hits at the moment: "Wrong games were tested."

 

[psolord]

^Tell us what are the correct games then.