8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

This thread was started in mid 2021 and is being retired/locked. As the OP is no longer active, or updating and maintaining it.

Mod DAPUNISHER

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

The best option is just not to buy this crap. Be creative and play older games that you missed the first time around or just accept that you have to lower settings more for a while.

The more this generation fails to sell, the better they are going to make the next generation, if they actually still are about large sales. We've already seen that they can't even wait that long and have to discount the current generation, although I doubt that it will ever become a good deal.

I have 300 games in my Steam library and the bulk of them are older games, so that's not a big problem, but I also have a few newer ones where my GTX 1650 is already not enough, especially with 4GB Vram. Did I say I am itching for some new toy to play with?

Waiting for the next gen another 2 years because maybe It will be better is pointless.
The same thing was spoken during Turing, then Ampere and now Ada. We all know how It ended.
Expecting the next gen to be better is very optimistic in my opinion.

 

[Aapje]

@TESKATLIPOKA

With such a weak card, I'd be looking at the 7600 or even better a 7600 XT 16 GB if they give us that. That would be a huge jump both in performance and VRAM, so you'd be able to play more games and the price is not going to be excessive (of course, knowing AMD you have to wait a little for the price to come down to good levels).

Expecting the next gen to be better is very optimistic in my opinion.

I disagree. All the evidence suggests that they could give us far better product, but they think that they can get away with this.

I actually expect a Super-refresh even before the next generation with far better price/performance.

The same thing was spoken during Turing, then Ampere and now Ada. We all know how It ended.

But the price/performance of Ampere was actually good during launch of the first Ampere products! It's just that the mining boom hit us at about the same time and messed up the entire market.

But if we get a repeat of how Nvidia reacts to bad sales, it seems likely that the 5000 cards will be far better value and unless we get another crisis driving up prices, we will be actually able to buy these cards for those prices.

 

[jpiniero]

With such a weak card, I'd be looking at the 7600 or even better a 7600 XT 16 GB if they give us that. That would be a huge jump and the price is not going to be excessive (of course, knowing AMD you have to wait a little for the price to come down to good levels).

7600 probably at best only comparable to the 4060. Maybe it ends up being a tad faster.

 

[Aapje]

7600 probably at best only comparable to the 4060. Maybe it ends up being a tad faster.

Yes, but the manufacturing costs should be really low, so I expect it to drop to pretty good prices. An AIB leaked that they should be able to make good profits on a $269 price and I personally think that a lower price than that is perfectly possible as well. If Nvdia keeps the prices of the bad 4060 relatively low, AMD is going to be forced to go quite a bit below that.

It might require a bit of patience, though.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

@TESKATLIPOKA

With such a weak card, I'd be looking at the 7600 or even better a 7600 XT 16 GB if they give us that. That would be a huge jump both in performance and VRAM, so you'd be able to play more games and the price is not going to be excessive (of course, knowing AMD you have to wait a little for the price to come down to good levels).

I have a laptop with GTX 1650, so I was willing to compromise at that time, but now not so much.
I want to move from Full HD to something better and buying 7600XT even with 16GB doesn't look that appealing to me, especially If I want to keep It for 3 years at least.
Honestly, even 4060TI is not great, even If It cost less than $499. I would like 4070Ti level of performance, but that price is something I am not willing to pay and with only 12GB Vram.
There is still N32, but that's starting to become detective Columbo's wife and RT performance is not that good.

 

[BFG10K]

The rumors were correct.

4060Ti 8 GB $399.
4060Ti 16 GB $499.
4060 8GB $299.

NVIDIA Announces GeForce RTX 4060 Family: RTX 4060 Ti, RTX 4060, Starting at $299, 16 GB Available

NVIDIA today announced the GeForce RTX 4060 family of GPUs, with two graphics cards that deliver all the advancements of the NVIDIA Ada Lovelace architecture—including DLSS 3 neural rendering and third-generation ray tracing technologies at high frame rates—starting at just $299. The GeForce RTX...

www.techpowerup.com

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti and RTX 4060 Final Specs, Performance, and Prices Leaked

VideoCardz struck the mother lode with information on the upcoming NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti and RTX 4060 "Ada" graphics cards, by scoring key slides from the NVIDIA press-deck. But first, the prices: When it goes on sale later this month, the GeForce RTX 4060 Ti will be priced at USD $399. Its...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Aapje]

A price reduction for the 4060 compared to the 3060 is a huge red flag that this is going to be a horrible product as well.

 

[Timorous]

All of that is a step too expensive.

$249 4060
$329 4060Ti 8GB
$399 4060Ti 16GB

That would have been a great stack and it would have forced AMD to sell the 7600 for sub $250.

Now AMD can probably get away with selling the 7600 for $250 and maybe if they want a 16GB variant for $300 which will generally trade blows with the 4060 but show big wins when the VRAM requirements exceed 8GB.

 

[CakeMonster]

I have a rich buddy who wanted a 'small' card for his SFF during COVID. Everything turned out too expensive and unavailable at the time them, he refused to pay the insane market price for 3060 at the time. I can imagine the 4060Ti 16GB is a good fit for him now.

This is an extremely narrow scenario, and for most people, the 4060's are not a good deal.

The 16GB version might sell well for AI, as its the next step down for those who can't afford a 4080. But its also a lot less performant, so NVidia doesn't really screw over themselves with regards to the AI market either. I see what they're doing, its quite clever.

 

[Aapje]

I have a rich buddy who wanted a 'small' card for his SFF during COVID. Everything turned out too expensive and unavailable at the time them, he refused to pay the insane market price for 3060 at the time. I can imagine the 4060Ti 16GB is a good fit for him now.

If that's the kind of buyer that would get one, then this is going to fail big time.

It reminds me when Aston Martin made a city car (just a rebadged Toyota iQ) and expected people to buy a hugely overpriced little car just so they could say they owned an Aston Martin: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/fail-century/fail-century-30-aston-martin-cygnet

 

[Ranulf]

$399 & $499. LMAO.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti rumored to cost $399 (8GB) and $499 (16GB) - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA RTX 4060 Ti has rumored prices MEGAsizeGPU, an NVIDIA hardware leaker who is rarely wrong has just shared the first pricing rumors for NVIDIA’s upcoming RTX 4060 Ti series. According to the leaker, there should be a $100 price gap between the 8GB and 16GB version. The cheaper SKU is said...

videocardz.com

If true this is utter garbage. Same price as a two year old 3060Ti with 35% less bandwidth, a bit less power, and (probably) not much faster.

And they're trying to tell us 8GB VRAM costs $100. Pffff.

As I said above, this is NV's 14+++++ nm because they're a monopoly. Like Intel's 4 cores with +5% performance and a forced motherboard upgrade every 18 months.

The new term you must learn is "effective bandwidth" and 32mb of L2 cache. That and dlss 3.0 is the bee's knees....if the game uses it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Jensen has rocks in his head. Is he now gonna re-release 4070 Ti with 16GB VRAM? Or just gonna sell a more expensive card with less VRAM? That nincompoop!

 

[Timorous]

Jensen has rocks in his head. Is he now gonna re-release 4070 Ti with 16GB VRAM? Or just gonna sell a more expensive card with less VRAM? That nincompoop!

Did it with the 3060 which I bet beats the 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB in some titles.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I have a rich buddy who wanted a 'small' card for his SFF during COVID. Everything turned out too expensive and unavailable at the time them, he refused to pay the insane market price for 3060 at the time. I can imagine the 4060Ti 16GB is a good fit for him now.

He should just go straight for a 4090. The ASUS LC one isn't a huge monster and he can probably afford it too.

 

[CakeMonster]

Well, he's not at all interested in spending that much, he assumed prices were the same as 10 years ago when he first asked me. He can afford paying a premium on a 'cheap card' because of his wealth, but that's as much as he'd be willing to stretch the budget. He just wants something 'cheap', small, and low power, given his SFF case and older computer which he's too lazy to replace/rebuild for now.

I realize this example feels completely off topic to people in this discussion, but my point is that at these prices, these cards are such a bad fit for 90% of people, and weird examples like my buddy are the only ones who will think 'eh, this will have to do I guess, I've waited long enough'.

 

[Mopetar]

The new term you must learn is "effective bandwidth" and 32mb of L2 cache.

AMD already showed that having a big cache with RDNA2 meant having a wide bus wasn't necessary. Testing is necessary to know whether the L2 cache that NVidia has is sufficient, but it's not as though there isn't a precedent for this approach.

I'd still be more concerned about hitting a wall of not having enough VRAM than the cores starving due to not having enough bandwidth.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Did it with the 3060 which I bet beats the 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB in some titles.

I was expecting him not to repeat that mistake. Guess he has a pretty good reason not to do what's best for us. Make the 4070 Ti look unattractive and nudge people towards the 4080 16GB or force them to accept the 4060 Ti 16GB and then upgrade earlier when the horsepower of that card becomes insufficient. The sad ones opting for the 4070 Ti 12GB will be fiddling with graphics settings a lot to keep everything in VRAM.

 

[igor_kavinski]

He just wants something 'cheap', small, and low power, given his SFF case and older computer which he's too lazy to replace/rebuild for now.

How old? Nvidia card is bad for older computers coz their driver overhead is worse than AMD's. He must not care about fps or turning up all the graphics settings if he's OK running a CPU limited cheaper card.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

A price reduction for the 4060 compared to the 3060 is a huge red flag that this is going to be a horrible product as well.

Probably 3060 12GB performance* for 3060 8GB price

* when not running out of memory

 

[CakeMonster]

How old? Nvidia card is bad for older computers coz their driver overhead is worse than AMD's. He must not care about fps or turning up all the graphics settings if he's OK running a CPU limited cheaper card.

For sure, but its a stop gap as the old card is dying and noisy (it predates the computer, AMD 290 IIRC) and he's using the iGPU for now and would like to do some gaming again, not really the most recent AAA titles. I believe its intel 8th gen but could be 6th gen. So when/if he gets around to switching out the rest, he'd likely keep the card.

 

[igor_kavinski]

(it predates the computer, AMD 290 IIRC)

Why not stick with AMD? The 6500 XT gives him the same VRAM and higher performance. Or even the RX 7600 may fit the bill for him really well and he will probably keep it till it starts dying.

 

[Aapje]

The 6500 XT is a really bad choice for such an old computer since the PCIe 4.0 x4 interface is barely enough and will get bottlenecked on PCIe 3.0.

The 7600 is probably a good choice, as the lower driver overhead will make it do decently well on such an older system.

 

[CakeMonster]

Those might very well be better value for money, but I think I'm gonna have a hard time convincing someone who has an expectation of getting something higher end (which would be reasonable based on the pre-covid situation, but here we are). I also don't like recommending anything below 12GB (ideally 16) for someone who keeps stuff for a long time.

I do agree about the 7600 though, it is probably a better match except for the VRAM, I'll at least bring that suggestion up the next time we talk.

 

[Aapje]

I think I'm gonna have a hard time convincing someone who has an expectation of getting something higher end

I have an expectation of dating Natalie Portman, but somehow I don't think that's happening either. Ultimately, you can only get what's available.

Perhaps you should show him some mining boom prices to show him how good he's got it.

 

[Ranulf]

AMD already showed that having a big cache with RDNA2 meant having a wide bus wasn't necessary. Testing is necessary to know whether the L2 cache that NVidia has is sufficient, but it's not as though there isn't a precedent for this approach.

I'd still be more concerned about hitting a wall of not having enough VRAM than the cores starving due to not having enough bandwidth.

Indeed, but color me skeptical.