8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[Captante]

Nevermind.

 

[Captante]

Nevermind.

 

[igor_kavinski]

But this is not looking for for gaming industry for PC.
First its Last of Us, and now its this.

Valve should be enforcing adherence to the minimum/recommended specs by game developers. That way, if a developer lies about the state of their game, Valve can put a red warning message on the game's Steam page warning users that their experience may not be optimal. This will tank sales and motivate game developers to release games only when they are done properly, instead of rushing them out and patching them afterwards. They can still sell Early Acess for impatient gamers.

 

[BFG10K]

Relax one must... to see and fight another day always wins me says. - in Yoda's voice...

He called me a knob and a douche in this thread, and I'm the one told to relax? Interesting...

 

[Captante]

Nevermind.

 

[blckgrffn]

I was watching a 7800X3D + 7900XTX in the first levels and it was seeing 100% usage often and staying over 95% the vast majority of the time in the first half hour of the game. That was 4K EPIC FSR2 Quality RT on. That was using AMD ReLive AV1 game capture.

It seems broken on Nvidia. As if it isn't using any hardware for RT, and texture streaming is not working correctly.

So what we are seeing is that games that are optimized for the current generation consoles - likely nearly exclusively and assuredly more extensively - run better on PCs that run more similar hardware, but worse on PCs that have dissimilar hardware?

I won't bother with the surprised Pikachu face here.

Also, zero surprise if they made sure the game worked (which is not the same as running well) on a bunch of PC configurations and were like "ship it". You paid enough for that 4090 to run whatever garbage code get's thrown at it right?

I'd expect this to be the trend, specifically as the PS4/One get dropped from titles. It might not be the best config for all things, but running AMD/AMD is likely closer to the optimized platform than not.

50M+ current gen consoles are going to determine what PC hardware spec is needed for as good or better than performance they can afford, typically at some sort of 1440p resolution with high details.

 

[aigomorla]

He called me a knob and a douche in this thread, and I'm the one told to relax? Interesting...

Actually im asking the entire thread in general, as i do not want this thread to get degraded to name calling like the 7800X3D thread.

So lets start out fresh.

As i said i see both camps.

Camp A - We need moar ram to scale with today's cores and tech.
Camp B - We need non lazy programmers to write proper code which lets us use less resources.
Camp C - WTF you guys still on PC for.... the Console side is clear skys beautiful weather.

 

[Captante]

Nevermind.

 

[Aapje]

Also there's JUST a SLIGHT chance that a company that was nearly 100% banned from "officially" reviewing Nvidia products directly due to Nvidia (and only saved by LTT/Linus!) MIGHT be slightly biased.

Or it could be evidence that they are not biased, as it is common for companies to (try to) coerce reviewers into favoring their products. In such an environment, not getting in a conflict with companies can actually be evidence of being bought.

The ban really made Nvidia look bad as:
- They demanded that reviews focus more on RT, that their cards are strong in (despite Hardware Unboxed regularly having done polls showing relatively low interest by gamers). Companies demanding control over editorial decisions by those who seek to inform the public is commonly seen as immoral.
- They claimed to speak for all gamers, AMD and developers, which is absurd and ignores how they have their own interests that don't always match those other groups. It is also easily verifiable that in fact, not all gamers see strong RT support as a key feature.
- They lied about Hardware Unboxed singularly focusing on rasterization, which is a easily verifiable falsehood by checking out the video's that they made over the years
- They acted utterly dishonestly, praising Hardware Unboxed to their face and using quotes from them on Nvidia's site, and then secretly blacklisting Hardware Unboxed until Steve pressed them for clarification on why he was no longer getting cards

Frankly, all your reasoning so far, including essentially victim blaming Hardware Unboxed, suggests rather strongly to me that you are the one with more than a slight bias. Also, you've been extremely abrasive so far, while playing the victim. I don't think that it's a surprise that this thread went off the rails as soon as you came in with all kinds of poorly argued claims, presented in a rather flamebaiting manner. Why not try to lighten up on the aggressive behavior and put more focus on making a strong case for your claims?

 

[Captante]

Nevermind.

 

[aigomorla]

Mah honestly i do not take even linus seriously.
I met that guy way back when he was with NCIX and used to come out the XtremeSystem CES parties.
Martins Liquid Lab, Cathar, Bryan from ASUS, Rita from Gigabyte, even Reps from MSI, came out asking for advice on how to be more attractive to overclockers.

Got into a few arguments with Francis from Intel Overclocking.
People who shaped out hobby.

I do not take most reviewers seriously tho, as i am from an age when we did things way scientifically.

Hardware Unbox'd was not one of these guys i saw at the parties so you know how hardcore he is in PC's.

 

[Tup3x]

Ok playing a little Jedi Survivor here. For 1080p, msi ab shows up to 10GBs on the 4070ti. That itself does not say much, until I test in my 8GB cards. Hmmm I don't have a 4k screen here, but tomorrow the 4070ti will go to its final place and I will do some testing there. Native 4k seems difficult even for the 4070ti. It has fsr though, so it will be ok I guess. No DLSS for now.

RT is the problem however. It brings a HUGE performance hit, that does not seem to be on the gpu side. The 4070ti was showing 40% gpu usage with low clocks, so it was even lower, but still it was running at like 35fps. The cpu is getting hammered with RT and I am using a 5Ghz 8600k, which is also not at 100%.

Without RT, it seems quite playable though. I believe the 3060ti will also be able to do 1080p/epic and the GTX 1070 maybe 1080p/high/medium. I'll test the 970 too, lol.

It looks WAY better than fallen order. Not even close. The heaviness is justified. If it's UE4, son I'm impressed.

Great gaming mechanics too. It will be a great game for sure. Some patches will help.

I tried it little today and ran "okay" maxed with ray tracing out at 1440p. GPU usage wasn't maxed out constantly... There were stutters here and there (hard to say if they were typical UE4 stutters, shader compilation, ray tracing or something else). VRAM usage peaked at 7600 MB.

But lets talk about the AA options. First of all, I've never seen TAA implementation that look this bad. DLSS ultra performance mode looks better. FSR2? Well, for some weird reason it runs worse with FSR2 quality than without it. That's quite an achievement. I don't know what is going on. Something is definitely not working properly. Also no matter what lightsaber looked pixelated. I'm not surprised when FSR2 is on but even without it... In any case, I've never missed DLSS and DLAA this much.

I couldn't for the life of it figure out what the ray tracing was supposed to do. Maybe it's bugged... Or being AMD sponsored game, it's so bad/useless that one shouldn't even bother using it.

Maxed out, no motion blur, no chromatic abberation, ray tracing was disabled, native resolution with TAA:

What the... It looks soooo much worse than Fallen Order. What they are doing? Deliberately ruining native resolution to promote FSR2? Quality mode is only passable option. Doesn't look too great in motion.

 

[MrTeal]

What the...

I haven't played it in years, but that's what Jedi Knight is supposed to look like.

 

[Aapje]

@Captante

And you're putting the cart before the horse.... any "bias" from HWUB would be the result of Nvidia's actions. (and again I can't say I blame them!)

That's still just an assumption and there's plenty of reasons to be upset at AMD too, for their shenanigans. So how do you know that on the whole, they aren't biased towards Nvidia? Or that they are actually very neutral and don't let a possible antipathy against the company influence how they review the products.

Note that reviewers actually tend to have contact with a bunch of different people from these companies, so they may have very positive experiences with Bob the Engineer and Mary the Press Agent, but poor experience with Jensen the Leather Jacket Man. You don't actually know what the specific impact is on the reviewer. Will Bob and Mary weigh more heavily in his mind, or will Jensen? Or will he praise/pan the product either way?

You've made big claims calling HBU out specifically for being so biased that they are untrustworthy, but the actual proof you have presented for this bold claim is frankly pathetic.

Ultimately, true objectivity doesn't exist, which is why many a reviewer, including HBU says to look at other reviewers as well. But HBU does a lot of things very well and IMO, is a very good source. For example, they actually noticed the missing textures in Hogwarts, which a less prudent reviewer would have missed and which would have resulted in crediting the 8 Gb card in question with achieving a certain FPS at a certain quality, even though in fact, that quality was not achieved. They also test a lot of games, so their test results are both more representative and can more easily be used to see how cards perform in specific kinds of games.

 

[aigomorla]

You guys really think you can play this when @IEC and I are throwing Jedi Super Master edition cards yet bearly pulling 60fps on it and this is not even in 4k too.

LOL...

 

[Tup3x]

I haven't played it in years, but that's what Jedi Knight is supposed to look like.

Apparently it runs at 50% resolution when FSR2 is disabled. What the actual... WHY!?

 

[Timorous]

You guys really think you can play this when @IEC and I are throwing Jedi Super Master edition cards yet bearly pulling 60fps on it and this is not even in 4k too.

LOL...

Because it seems NV cards are being massively under utilised so people playing on AMD hardware seem to be having fewer issues.

 

[Ranulf]

So, yet another badly optimized game on release. I sometimes wonder if much of this is a result of everything going in the last 3 years that has affected work quality. But then again, this is the gaming industry. Eternally rife with incompetence, greed and rushed products. All for $70.

 

[Captante]

Nevermind.

 

[Captante]

Nevermind.

*(my bad for "engaging" at all)

 

[esquared]

Help.... I'm posting and I can't shut up?

Feel free to prattle on endlessly however be advised before you bother, that I won't be reading any of it. (also CTFD)

Alright, stop with the OT posting.
Stop with the insults and stop with the cartoons.
This is not the Hume thread.

Next time gets an infraction.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Mopetar]

So, yet another badly optimized game on release. I sometimes wonder if much of this is a result of everything going in the last 3 years that has affected work quality. But then again, this is the gaming industry. Eternally rife with incompetence, greed and rushed products. All for $70.

I'm assuming it runs fine (or as fine as to be expected) on console, so outside of not having much developer time spent on the port I'm not sure what the issues are. Some have suggested it may be DRM-related, but in general I'd just chalk it up to having to ship on a deadline and not having enough time to test on all of the different PC configurations. Expect a patch in a few weeks to fix prominent low-hanging fruit issues.

 

[Ranulf]

EA is blaming win10 now. Don't use "cutting edge" processors with win10 folks. Very very bad. So bad. The worst.

Stop using e-cores with win10! Or x3d or anything. Don't use a 4090 with a low end i3 or i5 or i7 either.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1651990800862183426

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Is Epic the equivalent of ultra settings in this game? Wonder how much performance you could claw back at 1440p high, as I always try to play at settings to keep my framerate between 50 fps and 57 fps since I play on a 60 Hz FreeSync monitor and I get tearing if I put frame limiters any closer to 60 for most games and also get tearing if it ever drops below 40 fps since then I'm outside the FreeSync range of the monitor.

Yeah, it is the equivalent of ultra. If you watch that video with the 6700XT it looks like you would be right in the freesync sweet spot at 1440 epic.

So what we are seeing is that games that are optimized for the current generation consoles - likely nearly exclusively and assuredly more extensively - run better on PCs that run more similar hardware, but worse on PCs that have dissimilar hardware?

I won't bother with the surprised Pikachu face here.

Also, zero surprise if they made sure the game worked (which is not the same as running well) on a bunch of PC configurations and were like "ship it". You paid enough for that 4090 to run whatever garbage code get's thrown at it right?

I'd expect this to be the trend, specifically as the PS4/One get dropped from titles. It might not be the best config for all things, but running AMD/AMD is likely closer to the optimized platform than not.

50M+ current gen consoles are going to determine what PC hardware spec is needed for as good or better than performance they can afford, typically at some sort of 1440p resolution with high details.

Bad ports are nothing new. For example: Red Dead 2 and Cyberpunk were both terribad at launch. Look where they are now. Publishers want their ROI started before addressing most issues. Being a beta tester when you play day one on PC, is just how it is. I don't think console ports necessarily run better on similar hardware either. Callisto Protocol for instance, runs better on Nvidia.

I just saw people complaining Jedi Fallen Order stuttering never got fixed. I played through a couple of times between a 2060 super, 2070 super, and 3060ti, and it was a great looking, silky smooth experience. I always wonder what is nerfed on their systems that they have those issues. E.G. All the crappy command center/RGB control apps people install. Dudes still using antivirus like Norton, McAfee, etc. Unstable overclocks, cooling issues, wonky storage, PSU issues, crypto crippled cards, OS rot, needing a BIOS update, I/O issues (ask me about using an Xbox series controller via bluetooth in certain games) the list goes on.

The idea that games should still fit in 8GB is silly. Geometry, high res textures, collision, BVH structures, and everything else the devs are telling us they need more VRAM for. Kraken introduces even more issues for PC. Then there is the fact we know consoles being a fixed platform means we need even beefier hardware to get the same results.

 

[CP5670]

I started playing it and it actually runs fine for me, 100-120fps in the initial level. I have RT and AMD scaling enabled, and all settings on epic. Turning off scaling reduces the framerates to 70-80. Looks very nice too, reminds me of Cyberpunk but with much more detail.