8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[coercitiv]

Wow didn't realize Callisto tanked on 8GB too.

At this point reviewers are taking notes on the game selection to prepare for the 4060Ti review. AMD will also feel the heat with their N33 based cards, unless they do somehting to make the 7600XT more viable.

 

[Aapje]

Our intrepid Brazilian modders proving 8GB is forced obsolescence:

Yeah. We know that Nvidia was pretty close to releasing a 20 GB 3080 (which were actually sold to miners by MSI, who decided to just sell these cards from a test production run secretly, breaking Nvidia's rules) and a 16 GB 3070 (which Steve from Hardware Unboxed was told about by AIBs).

 

[blckgrffn]

lmao, I see this constantly



These Ampere cards would have put a crapload of pressure on Ada. The 20GB 3080 would have really made the 12GB 4070 seem like an ever large compromise.

It would have added years to the utility of the 3080 though, so that really sucks.

I'll remain steadfast in my view that the 3070 ti should have been 16GB for sure. Smh.

 

[Aapje]

At this point reviewers are taking notes on the game selection to prepare for the 4060Ti review. AMD will also feel the heat with their N33 based cards, unless they do somehting to make the 7600XT more viable.

The 7600 XT could be sold for as cheap as $250, so at that price it will probably still sell to entry level gamers (the kind of people who bought 1660 Super's in the past).

Nvidia is most likely going to ask for at least $399 for the 4060 Ti and at least $330 for the 4060, which makes it a far harder sell.

 

[BFG10K]

At this point reviewers are taking notes on the game selection to prepare for the 4060Ti review.

Remember when nVidia tried to blacklist HWUB because they didn't focus on "wray traycing" enough? Wouldn't it be funny if for the 4060TI reviews, nVidia told reviewers to focus on rasterization again?

AMD will also feel the heat with their N33 based cards, unless they do somehting to make the 7600XT more viable.

I'm 90% certain AMD's new parts will be 12GB, with the possible exception of a cheap entry-level 8GB.

nVidia OTOH, I can just see them plow ahead with a $400 - $450 128 bit 8GB 4060TI because of their arrogance. They'll push TV motion interpolation DLSS 3.0 like it's the second coming of the Messiah.

But if it blows up too much we may see a "Super" refresh in six months, just like Turing.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

4060 Ti is going to be ☠️ on arrival.

A bit worried for my 6700 XT too after the way they talk about 12GB in the conclusion. Though I'd hope it would be enough to at least run at console equivalent textures. No hope whatsoever for scrubby 8GB card though.

 

[Aapje]

A bit worried for my 6700 XT too after the way they talk about 12GB in the conclusion. Though I'd hope it would be enough to at least run at console equivalent textures. No hope whatsoever for scrubby 8GB card though.

N22 is not that strong, so 12 GB should be a good match. Supposedly, consoles have around 10-12 GB to work with as VRAM, so 12 GB should be sufficient to get console equivalent graphics with no RT.

I think that 12 GB is a bigger issue for the 4070 and especially 4070 Ti, as they are more powerful and can be used with RT or use other techniques to make them perform quite a bit better than consoles, but then the VRAM may hold them back. And the higher price also makes it a bigger issue if they become obsolote relatively soon.

 

[jpiniero]

I'll remain steadfast in my view that the 3070 ti should have been 16GB for sure. Smh.

Again, when Ampere first launched it only had 1 GB GDDR6X chips available. They could have refreshed when the 2 GB became available but obviously chose not to.

I believe the 3090 Ti does have the 2 GB chips but that is the only one.

That would be interesting about how the costs would look like with that theoretical 58 CU GA103 with 16 GB GDDR6X versus the 4070 and 4070 Ti.

 

[blckgrffn]

Again, when Ampere first launched it only had 1 GB GDDR6X chips available. They could have refreshed when the 2 GB became available but obviously chose not to.

I believe the 3090 Ti does have the 2 GB chips but that is the only one.

That would be interesting about how the costs would look like with that theoretical 58 CU GA103 with 16 GB GDDR6X versus the 4070 and 4070 Ti.

Again?

I didn't say GDDR6X. I said 16GB of memory. Given the current state of things, the extra bandwidth is worthless when you are out of memory.

That GDDRX power usage should have gone to powering 16GB of non-x memory for a much longer lasting card.

A full die and 16GB of ram would have sold plenty of folks on it as the card to have to hold for a long time.

Which is why didn't get made and they used the Ti to dump GDDR6X instead.

 

[jpiniero]

Again?

I didn't say GDDR6X. I said 16GB of memory. Given the current state of things, the extra bandwidth is worthless when you are out of memory.

That GDDRX power usage should have gone to powering 16GB of non-x memory for a much longer lasting card.

But "logically" you would have to of refreshed the 3080/Ti to with 2 GB versions if they were going to use 2 GB GDDR6 with the 3070/Ti compared to 1 GB GDDR6X. It's not entirely clear when the 2 GB chips became available.

 

[blckgrffn]

But "logically" you would have to of refreshed the 3080/Ti to with 2 GB versions if they were going to use 2 GB GDDR6 with the 3070/Ti compared to 1 GB GDDR6X. It's not entirely clear when the 2 GB chips became available.

I don't dispute that!

That would have been the best possible outcome, right? 16GB 3070Ti and a 20 GB 3080 Ti with the fastest possible memory? TBP is already pretty high so what the heck, what's a few more watts between friends?

But from where I am standing - 16GB of whatever memory would have been preferable to the current state of things.

But couldn't the Ti have maybe even used faster 16 gbps GDDR6 as a middle ground (the 3070 used 14gbps memory per Google)? I think by the time we refreshed that wasn't even top tier anymore.

 

[jpiniero]

For what I've been hearing about Jedi Survivor... lets just say 16 GB might not be enough

 

[Mopetar]

For what I've been hearing about Jedi Survivor... lets just say 16 GB might not be enough

JHH: These are not the benchmarks you're looking for.

I do like that companies are starting to design games to leverage the hardware for premium cards. 4090 and 7900 XTX purchasers should be happy they have nothing to fear.

 

[CP5670]

Jedi Survivor looks like a real system hog. Seems like a bad port more than anything else, the graphics don't look all that different from Fallen Order to me, and that game ran fine on a 1080ti.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Jedi Survivor looks like a real system hog. Seems like a bad port more than anything else, the graphics don't look all that different from Fallen Order to me, and that game ran fine on a 1080ti.

Wasn't the original horrible on all platforms at launch too?

 

[psolord]

Wasn't the original horrible on all platforms at launch too?

I had done a run of Jedi Fallen Order, on a freagin 2500k and a 7950, both from the PS3 era and the game run fine, at EPIC settings fml...

(non monetized channel)

How much heavier can this one be? I mean, it's the same engine essentially, isn't it?

 

[Ranulf]

Some say its UE5 others have said it is still using UE4 engine. Hard to tell from a basic search sadly.

 

[coercitiv]

Survivor is a technical mess, we already have DO NOT BUY reviews on YT telling people not to touch the PC version just yet. People can't play it properly even on a 4090. The 40-50% GPU utilization screams CPU performance issues, and considering the consoles are running fine... my bet would go towards DRM software killing this game with a hatchet while laughing hysterically.

The VRAM allocation numbers are also scary, but we can't judge them until CPU utilization is fixed.

 

[Timorous]

Survivor is a technical mess, we already have DO NOT BUY reviews on YT telling people not to touch the PC version just yet. People can't play it properly even on a 4090. The 40-50% GPU utilization screams CPU performance issues, and considering the consoles are running fine... my bet would go towards DRM software killing this game with a hatchet while laughing hysterically.

The VRAM allocation numbers are also scary, but we can't judge them until CPU utilization is fixed.

Yet others are saying it works fine on the 7900XTX. Must be the magic always perfect Nvidia drivers...

 

[coercitiv]

Yet others are saying it works fine on the 7900XTX. Must be the magic always perfect Nvidia drivers...

I've also seen someone reporting a good experience on a laptop with 6800M dGPU, so that would mean 6700XT class in desktop speak.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Yet others are saying it works fine on the 7900XTX. Must be the magic always perfect Nvidia drivers...

To be fair, it is an AMD bundled game. It is also likely that once issues get addressed, it will run better on Nvidia GPUs, since it is a UE game.

Would not surprise me if the Nvidia driver overhead combined with CPU heavy asset decompression are partially responsible for the issues. DRM is the prime accomplice. Something is nerfed for certain. No way a 5950X or 9900KS should be holding a GPU back like that.

 

[coercitiv]

Would not surprise me if the Nvidia driver overhead combined with CPU heavy asset decompression are partially responsible for the issues. DRM is the prime accomplice. Something is nerfed for certain. No way a 5950X or 9900KS should be holding a GPU back like that.

Daniel Owen already discusses the topic of driver overhead and it looks like this may partially explain the issues:

Asset decompression and VRAM pressure might explain the big difference in performance between closed and open areas of the game, as some of the early reviews point out.

The DRM hunch is based solely on the massive gap between official system requirements and real-world results.

 

[psolord]

My bad, please delete.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Nvidia driver overhead

I can see why Nvidia struggles with that. They don't have the luxury of going into the adjacent building or cafeteria and sitting down with the actual CPU engineers, to discuss performance issues. People say that AMD made the best decision when it bought ATI. I say the ATI/RTG folks are damn lucky for being acquired by a CPU company.

 

[igor_kavinski]

To be fair, it is an AMD bundled game.

I love this AMD critter that keeps gnawing away at the CPU and GPU behemoths Intel and Nvidia. If they weren't such fierce competitors, they could conceivably join forces for a hostile takeover of AMD, extinguishing their most annoying threat.