What FUD? The products in question exist, the 87.08/87.25 are drivers with great IQ and performance and youcan do HDR+AA (just not HDR+MSAA) on nVIDIA cards.
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
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I just checked Serious Sam 2 (Direct3D, FP HDR rendering) and AA is definitely NOT being applied if you force 8xS or 16xS through the driver.
There's a performance hit of sorts (probably caused by the driver allocating resources to a useless super-sampling buffer which is never used given the FP buffer is used instead) but the IQ is identical with AA off in the driver and it being forced on.
As soon as you disable HDR the AA starts working.
This is yet another example of Gstanfor spreading lies and misinformation I think.
I'm still waiting for him to repsond to my points about the issue.
There's a performance hit of sorts (probably caused by the driver allocating resources to a useless super-sampling buffer which is never used given the FP buffer is used instead) but the IQ is identical with AA off in the driver and it being forced on.
As soon as you disable HDR the AA starts working.
This is yet another example of Gstanfor spreading lies and misinformation I think.
I'm still waiting for him to repsond to my points about the issue.
That's because you are using a combined AA mode! (ie: MSAA is being used as well as SSAA) , and you accuse me of not knowing what I talk about! :roll:
5150Joker
Diamond Member
Gstanfor, not only are you a troll but you're also clueless.
edit before he goes crying to the mods.
edit before he goes crying to the mods.
No, you cannot!!! (unless your X800 XL lives in an Apple Macintosh).
ATi cards prior to R5xx can ONLY perform SSAA when crossfire AA is enabled. Even transparency AA on pre r5xx ATI is done with MSAA, NOT SSAA. (I'm not even sure Transparency AA can use SSAA on R5xx).
for starters, your claims of miraculous image quality improvements in the drivers you note above and your refusal to substantiate those claims with shots comparing and screenshots using those drivers to images of previous drivers.
or how about while we all know g7x hardware is incapable of concurrently running fp16hdr & aa, you claim it can in all D3D apps...
CaiNaM: If you care to check the driver thread, you will see IQ screenshots, posted by myself and you will also see a screenshot submitted by someone else of 3dmark05 GT1, using 84.56 IIRC. Note the difference in lighting on the Oxygen tank in the scene (see also the difference shot I uploaded, highlighting the difference).
ummm.. comparing a sshot done on 1 computer against one done on another computer owned by someone else is hardly what i would call difinitive (too many variables).
Please read the the preceding posts CaiNaM, the IQ tests in 3dmark are specifically designed to *allow* comparisons to be made...
And while you are at it, maybe you can explain how someone could set up a system so that lighting that is supposed to be present isn't through the controls available in the CP and nHancer? (good luck with that...)
And while you are at it, maybe you can explain how someone could set up a system so that lighting that is supposed to be present isn't through the controls available in the CP and nHancer? (good luck with that...)
Do I need to mention, maybe the OP does not live in Europe and has no access to the Gainward 7900GT 512MB...
From what I see, US currently does not stock nor have the 512MB 7900GT's currently, which in the OP's case, he would want to go with the X1800XT or 7900GT KO.
Also if you are to compare the two graphics cards.. please compare 7900GT's stock, to X1800XT stock. X1800XT has a high overclocking potential with a new cooler.
From what I see, US currently does not stock nor have the 512MB 7900GT's currently, which in the OP's case, he would want to go with the X1800XT or 7900GT KO.
Also if you are to compare the two graphics cards.. please compare 7900GT's stock, to X1800XT stock. X1800XT has a high overclocking potential with a new cooler.
As I've said before, petition/complain to your local/national retailers and distributors, also the card manufacturers, not to me about card availability.
I'm doing all I can to raise awareness of the products.
About the clcok sppeds, they *are* stock - for those products...
5150Joker
Diamond Member
I have a 7800 Go in my laptop and I have these drivers installed as well. Guess what? No IQ improvements at all.
puting aside hdr+aa I think that a 7900gt 512 is interesting. If the decision was up to me I would probably pick the 1800xt I already have a 7800gt and would like to see ati without having to buy an overly expensive card like the 1900 xt/xtx.
Maybe the op can tell us what games he is planning on playing and how long he wants his playing to last i.w. does he expect this card to bring him good performance in a years time or does he plan on buying again in six months.
As I have stated in several other flame wars we are here to help the op not to help our epenis grow.
Maybe the op can tell us what games he is planning on playing and how long he wants his playing to last i.w. does he expect this card to bring him good performance in a years time or does he plan on buying again in six months.
As I have stated in several other flame wars we are here to help the op not to help our epenis grow.
Then you won't have a problem posting up some IQ shots to match mine, will you?
Your experience is atypical of that being reported around the 'net for these drivers (more people than not say IQ is better)...
Been doing some research since I last replied.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvi...ce_7900_gt_gtx_performance/default.asp
You guys may have seen this already, but the x1800xt 256MB beats 7900gt 256MB stock on mostly shader intesive games.
On the other hand Nvdia wins in OpenGL games and other low shader intenive games. So 512MB should probably be the same. Maybe ATi may use the 512MB better cause of its ring bus system, which someone mention somewhere.
I usually play COD2, Oblivion, GT-Legends, BF2 and soon I want to get FEAR, which is one hit I'm missing.
So 1800xt 512MB still looks good to me compared to the 7900GT 512MB. Both nearly the same price.
I think guaranteed HDR+AA chuck patch for Oblivion PLUS AVIVO and AA + AF IQ has sold me.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvi...ce_7900_gt_gtx_performance/default.asp
You guys may have seen this already, but the x1800xt 256MB beats 7900gt 256MB stock on mostly shader intesive games.
On the other hand Nvdia wins in OpenGL games and other low shader intenive games. So 512MB should probably be the same. Maybe ATi may use the 512MB better cause of its ring bus system, which someone mention somewhere.
I usually play COD2, Oblivion, GT-Legends, BF2 and soon I want to get FEAR, which is one hit I'm missing.
So 1800xt 512MB still looks good to me compared to the 7900GT 512MB. Both nearly the same price.
I think guaranteed HDR+AA chuck patch for Oblivion PLUS AVIVO and AA + AF IQ has sold me.
I never notice in IQ IN gameplay, it's only noticed in still comparisons, that's why I went with the faster 7900GT, and I'm happy right now. At 7800GT512 speeds it's faster than the X1800
many things can be enabled/disabled via the driver or registy entries. some driver versions have "bugs". that an earlier version might not have had lighting and a later version might have fixed is hardly qualifies as "improved image quality". of course, there's also the fact that the captures are of different frames....
like i said, too many variables.
I can't say one way or another whether you are right or wrong cause I simply don't know whether this is true...but why haven't major review sites pointed this out??
I figured if this was indeed possible then review sites would claim that also. So far all reviews I've seen say that X1800/X1900 can do FP16 HDR + AA while the NVidia cards cannot. And why wouldn't NVidia themselves brag about this feature too??
Can anyone else confirm this??
Here's something someone posted over at XBitlabs:
"Regarding the HDR + FSAA issue it is very complicated.
Nvidia cannot run OpenEXR FP16 HDR + MSAA, that part is true. Which is used in FarCry, Serious Sam 2, dunno what else.
Nvidia can still run OpenEXR FP16 HDR + SSAA if the game codes for it like Age of Empires 3.
Nvidia can still run INT HDR + MSAA/SSAA, or any DX9 card for that matter in Half life 2 Lost Coast."
So the game has to be coded specifically to run HDR+SSAA for NVidia cards.
And here's another post from XBitlabs:
"ATI cards can't do any form of SuperSampling AA that I know of outside of Crossfire where the compositing engine handles the Super Sample AA.
ATI's Adapative AA uses MSAA, unlike Nvidia's Transparency AA which uses SSAA or MSAA depending on user choice"
Here's the link to the discussion from which the above posts were taken.
click
"Regarding the HDR + FSAA issue it is very complicated.
Nvidia cannot run OpenEXR FP16 HDR + MSAA, that part is true. Which is used in FarCry, Serious Sam 2, dunno what else.
Nvidia can still run OpenEXR FP16 HDR + SSAA if the game codes for it like Age of Empires 3.
Nvidia can still run INT HDR + MSAA/SSAA, or any DX9 card for that matter in Half life 2 Lost Coast."
So the game has to be coded specifically to run HDR+SSAA for NVidia cards.
And here's another post from XBitlabs:
"ATI cards can't do any form of SuperSampling AA that I know of outside of Crossfire where the compositing engine handles the Super Sample AA.
ATI's Adapative AA uses MSAA, unlike Nvidia's Transparency AA which uses SSAA or MSAA depending on user choice"
Here's the link to the discussion from which the above posts were taken.
click
Here's another post from extremeoverclocking.com:
"By AA you're referring to MSAA. From everything I've read, it should be entirely possible to run SSAA with OpenEXR on an NVidia card. The way OpenEXR was coded, it doesn't natively support MSAA, but it does support SSAA. The ATI X1800/X1900 cards have a hardware workaround for this software issue, because so many games use OpenEXR HDR.
OpenEXR was made for the CG movie industry, and that's why it supports SSAA and not MSAA; SSAA is much higher quality than MSAA, but at the cost of a lot of FPS. However, the CG movie industry doesn't need a high framerate since everything is rendered beforehand. The reason so many games use OpenEXR is because it's easy to implement, and frankly, because it's there."
So it's possible but takes a huge performance hit??
GStanfor have you tried this method in any games?? Age of Empires?? What kind of performance hit have you seen if you did do it??
"By AA you're referring to MSAA. From everything I've read, it should be entirely possible to run SSAA with OpenEXR on an NVidia card. The way OpenEXR was coded, it doesn't natively support MSAA, but it does support SSAA. The ATI X1800/X1900 cards have a hardware workaround for this software issue, because so many games use OpenEXR HDR.
OpenEXR was made for the CG movie industry, and that's why it supports SSAA and not MSAA; SSAA is much higher quality than MSAA, but at the cost of a lot of FPS. However, the CG movie industry doesn't need a high framerate since everything is rendered beforehand. The reason so many games use OpenEXR is because it's easy to implement, and frankly, because it's there."
So it's possible but takes a huge performance hit??
GStanfor have you tried this method in any games?? Age of Empires?? What kind of performance hit have you seen if you did do it??
The performance hit is quite large on my 6800GT, if I choose to use HDR+AA (not something I choose to do usually - HDR is still a "gimmick" technology in most games and I'd rather spend the GPU power I have available elsewhwere). I've already said performance wasn't wonderful, performance hit is sizeable doing this, but it is possible. Performance should be relatively better on 7900 than my 6800 GT, and the more shader bound future games become, the more perfromance will pick up (since the cost of performing the SSAA is hidden by the cost of running the shaders).
OpenEXR's origins have no bearing on its support (or lackthereof) for MSAA on current GPu architectures. nVIDIA didn't design FP16 MSAA support into the ROP's of nv4x/G7x, it's that simple.
As for reviewers commenting on this - you can't rely on them to know everything, the best thing to do is experiment for yourself.
OpenEXR's origins have no bearing on its support (or lackthereof) for MSAA on current GPu architectures. nVIDIA didn't design FP16 MSAA support into the ROP's of nv4x/G7x, it's that simple.
As for reviewers commenting on this - you can't rely on them to know everything, the best thing to do is experiment for yourself.
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