7900gt ko...x1800xt... which one?

[acegazda]

I found both the 7900gt ko and the x1800xt for $295 (the x1800xt after MIR)
which one would be a better performer and the best for overclocking?

 

[firebyyrd]

You might want to try using the "search feature"... you will find many "debates" over which one is a better performer. X1800XT vs 7900GT etc.

From my personal research on a couple forums, and reviews.. I've decided to go with the X1800XT 512MB. It worked out for me.. and it runs superb. I also can assure you if I decided to go with the 7900GT KO, I would be equally satisfied. Both are great cards, and you might want to do a little research yourself, I went with the X1800XT 512MB because I feel it to be a better performing card.

note: I believe that the X1800XT 512MB provides better overclocking because it is running stock, unlike the 7900GT which is factory overclocked... however don't be mistaken, the 7900GT overclocking ability is immense... but it's just overclocked already.

the X1800Xt series for the 512MB has a flash bios which allows it to run at 750/800.. correct me if I'm wrong, but somewhere around there. I've heard that it's stable overclock and that means the X1800XT has alot of potential ... but be wary... X1800XT's are pretty hot .. the 7900GT KO defintely runs cooler... But X1800XT would be a better overclocker.. .. 7900GT I guess you could do a volt mod, but it's too complicated for me so I like the ATI X1800XT with the flashing of bios.

 

[acegazda]

thanks i think the x1800xt runs at 625 mhz stock...
is the 7900gt ko's thermal abilities really superior with that huge copper heatsink on the x1800xt?
Thanks again.

 

[firebyyrd]

I wouldn't say superior, it's hard to compare the twos' cooling because they both have different chips.

Here, I would have to say in just temps, the 7900GT chip runs much cooler than the x1800xt.

Both cards pitted againist each other, I believe the 7900GT runs cooler so if your looking for cooler, less power consuming then go with the 7900GT most defintely. If power and cooling is no concern, then go with the X1800XT.. the cooler in the XT despite the need of two slots.. it "exhausts" hot air, which in my case helped my cooling because with the 7900GT it would be blowing RIGHT onto my audigy 2 zs sound card.. which is not good at all.

but if your asking which one is cooler.. I guess the 7900GT KO would be.. but you can't compare the twos' cooling solutions because they're cooling different types of chips, ATI's runs hot, nvidia's run cooler.

 

[Ackmed]

Can you buy from newegg? They have a retail X1800XT for $225 shipped after a $30MIR; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102698 Just the 256MB though, but if you're considering the GT, thats all it is anyway.

No 7900GT even comes close to that price. The XT is generally faster, has better IQ, and is much cheaper. It does use more power, and run hotter though, so its not all good. The XT puts the hot air out of the case, so it negates most of the heat issue. Both have +'s and -'s, with the biggest plus going to the XT for the much lower price.

 

[Gstanfor]

Not all GT's are 256mb only...
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Unlike the x1800 series, you won't think someone stuffed an unholy combo of furnace and industrial vacuum cleaner into your case either.

Last but not least, 1800's don't cope with HDR+AA anywhere near as well as x1900's do.

 

[josh6079]

Can we get a sticky put up so people with these kind of questions can see that the debate between these cards has been repeated too many times?

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Not all GT's are 256mb only...
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Unlike the x1800 series, you won't think someone stuffed an unholy combo of furnace and industrial vacuum cleaner into your case either.

Last but not least, 1800's don't cope with HDR+AA anywhere near as well as x1900's do.

And where are these 7900GT 512MB's selling? Hes obviously not talking about one, since he said the price of $295. While you can get a 512MB XT for that price, or less.

Not all GT's are quiet, in fact, most are as loud as the XT, per guru3d's reviews. Both are 50db's.

The fact is, you can use HDR+AA, and HQ AF, both of which NV does not have.

Sigh, why do you even try.

 

[Gstanfor]

Those 7900 GT 512mb's are selling all around the globe (apart apparently from the USA) and they are quite cheap too.

You can have HDR + AA with nVIDIA so long as the app isn't OpenGL (ironically enough) - just force supersampling. Naturally, just like the 1800 performance won't be fantastic, but it certainly can be done (see my 3dmork06 pics in the other thread).

 

[Ackmed]

So you're trying to tell me that you can have HDR+AA in Oblivion, and Farcry on your NV card? And that the speeds will be close to X1800XT speeds? Would you really get a $295 GT over a $225 XT? C'mon now...

 

[Gstanfor]

I've got an A64 3200+ and an Xpertvision 7900GT 512 winging their way to me as we speak Ackmed.

 

[Cabages]

I say you go for a X1800XT 512MB.

I dont know how many times I have said this. Seriously, if you search you will find at least 25 of these chock full with opinions and suggestions.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Best performer stock would be the X1800XT.
Best OCer would be the 7900GT because it can reach 550mhz core even on stock voltage which is already par with 7800GTX 512mb performance. Volt mod it to around 1.4 you will have a card hitting 650~/1600~ with some decent cooling. (Zalman vf900 or Thermalright V1 ultra etc). Although the X1800XT has software voltage tool, the card itself is very hot and consumes almost twice more power than the GT. OCing it means you would have to deal with the extra heat and most X1800XT (although some users have well vantilated cases etc) hit around 80C load already on stock.

IQ would have to go to ATi, because of the ability to do HDR plus AA, HQAF. Although to me NV has slight better AA quality and HDR (expecially in FC), including transparcey AA (compared to Adaptive AA). However when comparing normal 16xAF hence angle dependent AF (no HQ AF), NV is better slightly.

Noise could be the problem of both cards. The ATi stock cooler has a "whine"ing noise. It has 3 stages of noise level. Idling its quite, but when it gears up, it reaches 50~60dbs espeically if your playing a graphic intense game e.g oblivion. The stock cooler on the GT idles around 50dbs (not sure about the KO cooler/fan), but it doesnt have the high pitching noise compared to the ATis stock cooler. The ATi stock cooler does however push the hot air out of the case, which is a good thing.

OpenGL performance would go to NV in most cases, although ATi cards do perform really close in doom3 engine based games. But ATi lacks SSAA in openGL titles. D3D would go to the X1800XT both stock. But if the GT is OCed around 550~/1500~ it will be fast if not faster than the X1800XT in D3D games. If your anticipating games like Quake Wars and Prey, the GT card is obviously your choice.

There could be more said, but its your Choice.
Simply - X1800XT best performer 7900GT best OCer.

 

[Gstanfor]

The cooler on the 7900 GT 512mb cards I listed is nowhere near as noisy as the silly little heatsink/fan unit most other 7900 GT's come with. It's a double slot design. Note also that the ram has decent (not decorative) heatsinks applied also. image

The cards (except for the sparkle) start at 550mhz core and there are plenty of people who have gotten the cards to 600mhz, one or two to 625 mhz.

IQ wise the G7x's ability to do 16x AA (4xMSAA, 2x SSAA combined), plus Transparency AA using Supersampling rather than MSAA (though thats also an option) means more to me personally than either HDR+AA or HQ AF.

So far as I'm concerned these cards represent incredible bang for the buck (the same thing that made GF4200, GF6600GT, GF6800GT as popular as they were ovcer their lifetimes) and you'd have to be mad to spend much more on card at the moment (epsecially if you were considering a 7900 GTX).

 

[dagabs]

Jeez I was contemplating in getting a 1800xt card, but I didnt know that 7900gt came in 512mb, until Gstanfor mentioned it. So I looked it up and there are plenty here in aus. Same price as an 1800xt.

Only thing that worries me is HDR + AA. How good does 1800xt do it, and can 7900gt ever do it?

Question is which one would last me longer?

 

[Gstanfor]

All nV4x and G7x gpu's are capable of HFR+AA so long as you are using D3D and not OpenGL. Use nHancer to create a profile for the app in question, then choose supersampling for the AA method. Obviously the performance isn't the best, however it is possible.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about HDR+AA until DX10 hits. The next gen chips should support it much better than current ones do.

DX10 on the horizon is another reason why I wouldn't be keen to purchase more than a 7900 GT 512mb at the moment.

 

[dagabs]

Is there any benchmarks of 7900gt 512mb vs. 256mb??

 

[Gstanfor]

Sadly, I'm unaware of any reviews of the 512mb 7900GT's so far. Hopefully that will change.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
All nV4x and G7x gpu's are capable of HFR+AA so long as you are using D3D and not OpenGL. Use nHancer to create a profile for the app in question, then choose supersampling for the AA method. Obviously the performance isn't the best, however it is possible.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about HDR+AA until DX10 hits. The next gen chips should support it much better than current ones do.

DX10 on the horizon is another reason why I wouldn't be keen to purchase more than a 7900 GT 512mb at the moment.

Why don't you post some pics of SSAA+HDR in action in Oblivion slick so he can see what a poor hack this really is. There's no need to wait for next gen cards to do HDR+AA properly at good speeds, ATi has already taken care of that this gen. I know that hurts your green little troll heart.

 

[Gstanfor]

As I've already posted in this forum, I don't own Oblivion, and I have no intention of purchasing Oblivion, having seen it in action on other peoples machines. Bethedsa's games IMO are borefests.

EDIT: I think the fanATIcs on this forum feel genuinely threatened by the 512mb 7900 GT's I've been mentioning lately

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
All nV4x and G7x gpu's are capable of HFR+AA so long as you are using D3D and not OpenGL. Use nHancer to create a profile for the app in question, then choose supersampling for the AA method. Obviously the performance isn't the best, however it is possible.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about HDR+AA until DX10 hits. The next gen chips should support it much better than current ones do.

DX10 on the horizon is another reason why I wouldn't be keen to purchase more than a 7900 GT 512mb at the moment.

Pretty naive for someone who doesn't own a card that supposedly runs its features like crap. The 7 series offered a ton of features, but you could never really turn all of them on because your performance would drop significantly. Sure, ATI can't always have EVERYTHING turned on, but only with Oblivion in my experience. ATI's features don't take as much of a hit when enabling some very good things and HDR + AA is just an example of that. And no, the 7 series cannot effectively do HDR + AA except for Source based games.

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
As I've already posted in this forum, I don't own Oblivion, and I have no intention of purchasing Oblivion, having seen it in action on other peoples machines. Bethedsa's games IMO are borefests.

EDIT: I think the fanATIcs on this forum feel genuinely threatened by the 512mb 7900 GT's I've been mentioning lately

Why are those who own an X1900XTX threatened by the 512mb 7900GT? The 7900GTX is just that and the X1900XT(X)'s still beat them. But a cheaper GPU with the same amount of ram as its big brother is really, really scary right? Also, if your going to compare the simple amount of video ram is available, Nvidia would have to do more than just equal the amount. The X1*** series has a more effecient ram architecture known as ring-bus memory which Nvidia's 7900 256, 512 anything loses to. Threatened isn't the right word, more like...confused.

 

[BFG10K]

http://www.gainward.net/products/product.php?products_id=25

That's a 7900GTX, not a 7900GT.

You can have HDR + AA with nVIDIA so long as the app isn't OpenGL (ironically enough) - just force supersampling.

I'd like to see evidence of this claim.

Naturally, just like the 1800 performance won't be fantastic,

If this is even true then a X1800 will have vastly better performance running MSAA + HDR than nVidia will running SSAA + HDR.

but it certainly can be done (see my 3dmork06 pics in the other thread).

I checked all of your 3DMark06 pictures and none of them appear to have any AA applied as they all have visible jagged edges.

I want to see side by side identical pictures of no AA compared to 16xAA in addition to the finishing screens showing the different 3DMark scores at the end of both the non-AA and the 16xAA benchmark run.

Otherwise I'm going to have to claim this is nothing more than a lie on your part, just like your past lies about nVidia's driver control panel and your constant denials of repeatable nVidia driver issues.

plus Transparency AA using Supersampling rather than MSAA

Are you suggesting ATi's AAA doesn't use super-sampling? That's rather ironic since even their performance mode doesn't use multi-sampling.

 

[Gstanfor]

quote:
http://www.gainward.net/products/product.php?products_id=25


That's a 7900GTX, not a 7900GT.

Thank you, Mr Anal. You are correct.
correct link

Josh6079: The reason the fanATIcs are so worried about a card like this is that it will rob ATi of sales in the mid-range performance market - where most people buy.

quote:
plus Transparency AA using Supersampling rather than MSAA


Are you suggesting ATi's AAA doesn't use super-sampling? That's rather ironic since even their performance mode doesn't use multi-sampling.

Are you trying to suggest that single ATi cards can magically perform AAA Mr. Anal? Did I mention any SLI AA modes in my post?

 

[CaiNaM]

i don't think it's about sales at all - nv has ati beat hands down in that dept this gen (at least GT).

what i think most ppl are up in arms about is the FUD you are spreading, with nothing to back it up, and until you do back it up or stop posting misinformation, you're going to continue to get negative replies to your posts.

 

[BFG10K]

Are you trying to suggest that single ATi cards can magically perform AAA Mr. Anal?

Good Lord, this is comical beyond belief.

Adaptive AAA is not only available on any single R3xx boards or higher (I run it on my X800 XL for heaven's sake), it also has absolutely nothing to do with the Crossfire Super AA modes.

Your comment is as clueless as when you were claiming you can't do application specific profiles with ATi's CCC.

Whenever you try to make yourself look clever you simply end up producing a big steaming pile.

And I'm still waiting for your evidence that proves you can force SSAA into any Direct3D game using FP HDR.