Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

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ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
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It won't make a difference in X-Plane 11 and Flight Simulator as I cap my fps to 30 in these games since I almost always below 60 fps (when fps is not capped).
If you are capping your FPS down to 30, I'd upgrade your monitor to 4k since your CPU is the bottleneck. 4k60 freesync panels are also around $250 in USA. It is a lot easier to tweak GPU sensitive settings in X-Plane to keep the CPU bottleneck. We won't be seeing 2x the performance in X-Plane over the 5800X3D/12900k from Intel or AMD for a long time I bet.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Presumably the new models are about getting rid of the partially busted vcache chips.
They could still get more money selling them as a server part. There are plenty of use cases where someone wants all of the cache, but doesn't need all 8 cores per chiplet either because the performance doesn't scale well with more cores or they would get better results from fewer cores at higher clock speeds.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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They could still get more money selling them as a server part. There are plenty of use cases where someone wants all of the cache, but doesn't need all 8 cores per chiplet either because the performance doesn't scale well with more cores or they would get better results from fewer cores at higher clock speeds.
And they are doing that. Milan-X Epyc has 2-8 cores per chiplet options. But all of them include the full 768 MB L3.

We're talking about parts where the vcache for whatever reason is partially busted.
 
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Dave3000

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Jan 10, 2011
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Very informative as this will give me a better idea of what to expect if upgrading from a 5800X to a 5800X3D. So only a 10% higher fps for the low in X-Plane 11 compared to the 5800X according to that Google spreadsheet. It also shows that Flight Simulator (2020) is benefiting much more from the larger L3 cache than X-Plane 11 and they are both single-threaded intensive. Maybe the lower clock speed of the 5800X3D is negatively affecting in itself X-Plane 11 but the larger L3 cache of the 5800X3D is compensating for it and then some but not much? I have a 5800X but I decided to just wait for the Ryzen 7800X. X-Plane 11 was the main reason I want to upgrade to a faster 8-core CPU. I'm not going to upgrade for 10% higher lows in X-Plane 11, especially at it's current price, and I don't care about Flight Simulator (2020) any longer as I uninstalled it.
 
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Thunder 57

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Aug 19, 2007
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Very informative as this will give me a better idea of what to expect if upgrading from a 5800X to a 5800X3D. So only a 10% higher fps for the low in X-Plane 11 compared to the 5800X according to that Google spreadsheet. It also shows that Flight Simulator (2020) is benefiting much more from the larger L3 cache than X-Plane 11 and they are both single-threaded intensive. Maybe the lower clock speed of the 5800X3D is negatively affecting in itself X-Plane 11 but the larger L3 cache of the 5800X3D is compensating for it and then some but not much? I have a 5800X but I decided to just wait for the Ryzen 7800X. X-Plane 11 was the main reason I want to upgrade to a faster 8-core CPU. I'm not going to upgrade for 10% higher lows in X-Plane 11, especially at it's current price, and I don't care about Flight Simulator (2020) any longer as I uninstalled it.
Careful now, be sure to read Userbenchmark first:

An unusually high proportion of early 5800X3D samples appear unable to boost above base clock, upcoming BIOS updates may fix this. Either way, for most real-world tasks performance is comparable to the significantly cheaper 5800X. Some specific cache sensitive scenarios such as low res. canned game benchmarks with a 3090-Ti will benefit. Be wary of sponsored reviews with cherry picked games that showcase the wins and gloss over the losses. Also watch out for AMD’s army of Neanderthal social media accounts on reddit, forums and youtube, they will be singing their own praises as usual. AMD’s marketers continue to show more interest in this year’s bonuses than the longevity of the brand. Instead of focusing on real-world performance, they attempt to dupe consumers with bankrolled benchmark busting headlines. The same tactics were used with the Radeon 5000 series GPUs.
In fact, if you go to their site and search for AMD you will find out that they hate you and AMD is propped up by troglodytes!
 

ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
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Finally had some downtime to try out some BCLK overclocking. I have no SATA drives and only 1 m.2 SSD for the entire system. Lowered RAM clock from 3733 MT/s down to 3666 MT/s and set BCLK to 101.8 ish so it is back to 3734 ish. With FCLK still at 1867, is this still close enough to 1:1, or should I be doing something special? I do have mem clock = fclk in BIOS as well.

Seeing 4533 Mhz all core boost, and 4635 MHz single core boost. I definitely can find a bit more headroom, but was surprised at how easy it was to get this stable. Still using -25mV all core undervolt, so voltages are still well below 1.2v.

System was not stable at 103 BCLK at 2133 MT/s DDR4. I didn't try 102.X range, but I am sure I can go a bit higher. It certainly feels like I can push the RAM a bit harder as well. Can't go below 16-19-19-35-54 for main timings though. So nice not having to reset CMOS each time a memory overclock fails like my 2013 motherboard has to do.
 

jamescox

Senior member
Nov 11, 2009
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There is an article at wccftech talking about 32 MB cache chips used for GPUs. I guess if they are making some 32 MB chips for gpu use, and they are compatible with Zen 3, then that may be where the rumors about 32 MB v-cache chips are coming from. It seems odd though. The 64 MB chip is only something like 36 mm2, so a 32 MB chiplet would be absolutely tiny. Although, it would allow maximum flexibility. Perhaps they want to stack it over a small IO area in the base die and the 64 MB chiplet would be too big. Also, I don’t know about compatibility across 7 nm and 5 nm chips, assuming Navi31 is 5 nm. They may want to continue to make cache chips on 7 nm.

 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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Something the reviewer in the above video said, reinforced how entrenched testing games without playing them has become in the industry.

He apologized for playing Apex since it didn't have a canned bench. And said take the results with a grain of salt because of it. That's bass ackwards to how it should be. "Oh but we can't precisely replicate the tests." GOOD! Then games with built in bench that don't accurately reflect the most demanding parts, can't hide a CPU's performance limitations. Only throwing down in a game like BF5 64 player, or using a late game save for something like Planet Coaster, is going to give you the real dirt.

Glad he tested the 3D dynamically like that. I also like that he pointed out all the CPUs are crazy fast. None of them will be riding the struggle bus any time soon, as he also noted.

I will buy a 3D model at some point. Waiting to see if the 6 core version is real.
 

lightmanek

Senior member
Feb 19, 2017
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Optimum Tech really sold me on small form factor PCs. Now when I see an ATX tower all that empty space looks to me like a huge waste.
ATX case?? That's small, take a look at Thermaltake Core X9 fridge ... I mean case :D
I'm really happy with my monster PC as it gives me space to do crazy stuff, but I also have tiny nano-ITX buid which I keep in the car and use as portable data recovery and cloning lab. That latter one is still rocking AM1 platform with 4-core Kabini 2.05GHz overclockable to 2.35GHz, but I'm starting to think about upgrade ...
 

Racan

Senior member
Sep 22, 2012
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ATX case?? That's small, take a look at Thermaltake Core X9 fridge ... I mean case :D
I'm really happy with my monster PC as it gives me space to do crazy stuff, but I also have tiny nano-ITX buid which I keep in the car and use as portable data recovery and cloning lab. That latter one is still rocking AM1 platform with 4-core Kabini 2.05GHz overclockable to 2.35GHz, but I'm starting to think about upgrade ...
You can cram a lot more powerful hardware like the 5950x, 12900k, RTX 3080, even the 3090 in some of today's under 20l volume mITX cases without too much compromise.
The next generation of increasingly power hungry components will definitely change that though...
 
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LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
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ATX case?? That's small, take a look at Thermaltake Core X9 fridge ... I mean case :D
I'm really happy with my monster PC as it gives me space to do crazy stuff, but I also have tiny nano-ITX buid which I keep in the car and use as portable data recovery and cloning lab. That latter one is still rocking AM1 platform with 4-core Kabini 2.05GHz overclockable to 2.35GHz, but I'm starting to think about upgrade ...
I LOVE my core X9 black! Its just HUGE on the inside and so easy to work in.
 
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ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
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Using MSI's Dragon Center or the lighter Dragon Power, we can adjust BCLK frequency inside Windows. This is yielding excellent overclock results on the 5800X3D owners thread on overclock.net.

dragon.jpg

Click apply and BCLK is changed. I wish the ratio buttons actually worked.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
8,678
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www.teamjuchems.com
I upgraded to a X570S Tomahawk to make it more likely that I stick with AM4 until later AM5 chipsets... This is a welcome surprise, although the Beta Bios I was running for a similar MSI board already kicked the CPU in pants when I mistakenly enabled the CPU boost option in the firmware, but this was not stable.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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I upgraded to a X570S Tomahawk to make it more likely that I stick with AM4 until later AM5 chipsets... This is a welcome surprise, although the Beta Bios I was running for a similar MSI board already kicked the CPU in pants when I mistakenly enabled the CPU boost option in the firmware, but this was not stable.
If the board has the game mode option in the UEFI you should try it. Tomahawk B450 set my 5600G to 4.7GHZ all core, but all power saving features were still active. Max voltage was lower than OOB PBO.
 
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