35W Bridge Collapses in Minneapolis - 8 Lanes, 4 in use

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Electric Mayhem

A better example of what wind can do is perhaps the collapse of the Kinzua railroad bridge in NE Pennsylvania in 2003.

Although that's a tornado, I wouldn't call that "wind".

A lot of civil engineering has to do with probability. What's the probability that an earthquake of a certain magnitude can hit this area in the next 100, 200 500 years? What's the probability that the river level can exceed this limit in the next 100 years? etc.. If engineers would design structures, dams, roadways, for extreme wind, snow, hydrostatic, live loads, etc. we would have very expensive, "ugly", albeit robust structures.

The design strength goes up as the importance of the structure goes up. Hospitals and schools are probably some of the safest building structures.

Holland's flood protection is designed to withstand 1,000 year floods, or so I've heard.

An interstate span that has 200,000 ADT (average daily traffic) should be pretty important... anyway.

There has been a lot of shameful engineering disasters lately, first New Orleans and now this

My building was right on top (more or less) of the NYC steampipe explosion.

We are spending our money in the wrong ways.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Electric Mayhem

A better example of what wind can do is perhaps the collapse of the Kinzua railroad bridge in NE Pennsylvania in 2003.

Although that's a tornado, I wouldn't call that "wind".

A lot of civil engineering has to do with probability. What's the probability that an earthquake of a certain magnitude can hit this area in the next 100, 200 500 years? What's the probability that the river level can exceed this limit in the next 100 years? etc.. If engineers would design structures, dams, roadways, for extreme wind, snow, hydrostatic, live loads, etc. we would have very expensive, "ugly", albeit robust structures.

The design strength goes up as the importance of the structure goes up. Hospitals and schools are probably some of the safest building structures.

Holland's flood protection is designed to withstand 1,000 year floods, or so I've heard.

An interstate span that has 200,000 ADT (average daily traffic) should be pretty important... anyway.

There has been a lot of shameful engineering disasters lately, first New Orleans and now this

My building was right on top (more or less) of the NYC steampipe explosion.

We are spending our money in the wrong ways.

Yep that too. I can't believe that happen in New York either.

 

[ballmode]

sux bad

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Electric Mayhem
I'm a structural engineer, but I work on railroad bridges, old (100 years +) and new.

It's not a secret that our country is in severe need of funding for thousands of bridge repairs and replacements, large and small, across the country, both railroad and traffic. I'm sad to say that a tragedy like this may be what's needed to get our citizens' and lawmakers' eyes to open up.

It's very shocking to see something like this. From what I read it sounds like fatigue cracks were present that ma have been a main factor. But it's too early to tell....there appear to be different types of structures and multiple spans collapsed.

At least Minneapolis will be getting a new f@#$ing baseball stadium. F@#$ politicians and their priorities.

35W is a Federal Highway. The fact that Minneapolis is building a new stadium has nothing to do with Federal Highway funds.

Using a tragedy like this to make cheap, misguided political jabs makes you an asshat of the highest magnitude.

Actually, the asshat would be the moron who thinks our freeways are 100% federally funded. Do you honestly believe city/state money doesn't get used on freeways?

 

[alphatarget1]

Katrina was downgraded to a Category 3 (supposed design strength of the levees) hurricane when it made its landfall. NO levee failures was a fvck up of the Army Corp of Engineers.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Electric Mayhem

A better example of what wind can do is perhaps the collapse of the Kinzua railroad bridge in NE Pennsylvania in 2003.

Although that's a tornado, I wouldn't call that "wind".

A lot of civil engineering has to do with probability. What's the probability that an earthquake of a certain magnitude can hit this area in the next 100, 200 500 years? What's the probability that the river level can exceed this limit in the next 100 years? etc.. If engineers would design structures, dams, roadways, for extreme wind, snow, hydrostatic, live loads, etc. we would have very expensive, "ugly", albeit robust structures.

The design strength goes up as the importance of the structure goes up. Hospitals and schools are probably some of the safest building structures.

Holland's flood protection is designed to withstand 1,000 year floods, or so I've heard.

An interstate span that has 200,000 ADT (average daily traffic) should be pretty important... anyway.

There has been a lot of shameful engineering disasters lately, first New Orleans and now this

New Orleans was hit by a hurricane. it was not built to withstand one the size that hit it.

so far this does look like a engineering disaster. New Orleans was not.

Structures that don't withstand the designed loads and fail = engineering disaster.

If 10ft of snow fell in San Francisco and most of the roofs collapsed, that won't be considered as a disaster as the houses there aren't designed for snow load. NO's levees were supposed to be designed better. They've known the problem for years but they pretty much neglected it. The City of NO was supposed to post some bonds and fix them if the Feds weren't going to take care of them, they didn't. NO is still one messed up place last time I checked.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: pcslookout

Originally posted by: yankeesfan
DHS says that it doesn't appear to be terrorism, which is obvious, I think.

I think its either Global Warming or a faultily bridge.

go away

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Electric Mayhem

A better example of what wind can do is perhaps the collapse of the Kinzua railroad bridge in NE Pennsylvania in 2003.

Although that's a tornado, I wouldn't call that "wind".

A lot of civil engineering has to do with probability. What's the probability that an earthquake of a certain magnitude can hit this area in the next 100, 200 500 years? What's the probability that the river level can exceed this limit in the next 100 years? etc.. If engineers would design structures, dams, roadways, for extreme wind, snow, hydrostatic, live loads, etc. we would have very expensive, "ugly", albeit robust structures.

The design strength goes up as the importance of the structure goes up. Hospitals and schools are probably some of the safest building structures.

Holland's flood protection is designed to withstand 1,000 year floods, or so I've heard.

An interstate span that has 200,000 ADT (average daily traffic) should be pretty important... anyway.

There has been a lot of shameful engineering disasters lately, first New Orleans and now this

New Orleans was hit by a hurricane. it was not built to withstand one the size that hit it.

so far this does look like a engineering disaster. New Orleans was not.

Structures that don't withstand the designed loads and fail = engineering disaster.

If 10ft of snow fell in San Francisco and most of the roofs collapsed, that won't be considered as a disaster as the houses there aren't designed for snow load. NO's levees were supposed to be designed better. They've known the problem for years but they pretty much neglected it. The City of NO was supposed to post some bonds and fix them if the Feds weren't going to take care of them, they didn't. NO is still one messed up place last time I checked.

It looks like the Corps didn't really understand the geology of the area well enough and the flooodwall designs were insufficient to meet requirements. Even if the levees were designed properly to withstand a Cat 3 it would only be a matter of time before a powerful enough storm hit and did equal or greater damage. NO has been in need of a much more robust flood protection system for quite some time.

 

[BriGy86]

Did they give the names of the dead or injured?

 

[Finalnight]

So far 7 dead, luckily the mississippi has had 20 year historic low water levels so most of that bridge would normally have been submerged. That probably saved a lot of people, also they shut down the dams and locks to slow the flow further.

Fantastic though, morons at the U of M are keeping it open tommorow, even though its a block away from this, I am gonna have to leave home 2 hours early.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Electric Mayhem

A better example of what wind can do is perhaps the collapse of the Kinzua railroad bridge in NE Pennsylvania in 2003.

Although that's a tornado, I wouldn't call that "wind".

A lot of civil engineering has to do with probability. What's the probability that an earthquake of a certain magnitude can hit this area in the next 100, 200 500 years? What's the probability that the river level can exceed this limit in the next 100 years? etc.. If engineers would design structures, dams, roadways, for extreme wind, snow, hydrostatic, live loads, etc. we would have very expensive, "ugly", albeit robust structures.

The design strength goes up as the importance of the structure goes up. Hospitals and schools are probably some of the safest building structures.

Holland's flood protection is designed to withstand 1,000 year floods, or so I've heard.

An interstate span that has 200,000 ADT (average daily traffic) should be pretty important... anyway.

There has been a lot of shameful engineering disasters lately, first New Orleans and now this

New Orleans was hit by a hurricane. it was not built to withstand one the size that hit it.

so far this does look like a engineering disaster. New Orleans was not.

Structures that don't withstand the designed loads and fail = engineering disaster.

If 10ft of snow fell in San Francisco and most of the roofs collapsed, that won't be considered as a disaster as the houses there aren't designed for snow load. NO's levees were supposed to be designed better. They've known the problem for years but they pretty much neglected it. The City of NO was supposed to post some bonds and fix them if the Feds weren't going to take care of them, they didn't. NO is still one messed up place last time I checked.

It looks like the Corps didn't really understand the geology of the area well enough and the flooodwall designs were insufficient to meet requirements. Even if the levees were designed properly to withstand a Cat 3 it would only be a matter of time before a powerful enough storm hit and did equal or greater damage. NO has been in need of a much more robust flood protection system for quite some time.

Shoulda woulda coulda... Sad.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

What an awful day. I am relieved none of my friends or family were on the bridge. Actually my secretary and good friend uses that route home and probably missed this by 10 minutes or less, but fortunately she's OK.

This is going to drastically affect traffic patterns around here for years. 35W is THE major thoroughfare through Minneapolis, and it will take 2 years or more to rebuild.

 

[Pepsi90919]

was this a concrete-decked bridge?

 

[TheTony]

Originally posted by: BriGy86
Did they give the names of the dead or injured?

Not as far as I'm aware, but to expect that so soon isn't terribly reasonable.

What I've heard is that the first confirmed was someone who drowned. Not much else since then - I'd assume the others were among the critical injuries received at HCMC or perhaps recovered later on in the evening. About 60 people were admitted to local hospitals.

Unaccounted for is one of the crew who was working on the bridge (of a crew of 18).

Finalnight is correct - the flow of the river, due to the dry conditions locally, is 1/3 of what it normally is.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: DonVito
What an awful day. I am relieved none of my friends or family were on the bridge. Actually my secretary and good friend uses that route home and probably missed this by 10 minutes or less, but fortunately she's OK.

This is going to drastically affect traffic patterns around here for years. 35W is THE major thoroughfare through Minneapolis, and it will take 2 years or more to rebuild.

Wow glad to hear they are ok. One guy fell 30 feet in his truck but had his seat belt on. He said he would of went through the front window if he didn't. Seat Belt I bet saved his life!

 

[TheTony]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
was this a concrete-decked bridge?

It was.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
was this a concrete-decked bridge?

Yes

 

[Pepsi90919]

one more time...

 

[skrilla]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
From what I've seen and heard so far, this seems like a simple structural failure (too much downward force for the bridge to support, either due to an overload situation or a weakened structure from construction) and not a weather or vibration induced failure.

It definitely makes you think about the thousands of engineered structures you pass on a daily basis.

I remember driving on that bridge each day on the way home during the construction. No idea what they were doing, but on the lanes that were being worked on, the road was ripped up a good 6 inches to a foot deep. Kinda thought to myself, "How deep can they go before it gets to be too deep - or they fall through or something."

I really don't know jack shit when it comes to structure failure, or engineering, etc., but the first thing that came to my mind when I turned on the TV this afternoon was, "something had to go wrong because of the construction." But at that time on TV, they were saying it didn't have anything to do with that.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: EKKC
thats what happens when you ship out KG

seriously though, i wonder how this could've happened to a bridge... part of an interstate highway too

Two words: lowest bidder

 

[RedArmy]

This sounds completely retarded but regarding the Tacoma Narrows Bridge that collapsed under a type of aeroelastic flutter, is it possible that the downfall of the I-35W had anything to do with a forced resonance of sorts?

I know that Mythbusters debunked Tesla's claim about his earthquake machine saying that it could destroy a bridge if it matched the natural frequency of the bridge and was given enough time, but they said specifically that modern bridges were built with this taken into account. I'm not sure about the guidelines for building a bridge in the 1960's though.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: EKKC
thats what happens when you ship out KG

seriously though, i wonder how this could've happened to a bridge... part of an interstate highway too

Two words: lowest bidder

it's usually second-lowest in my town.

 

[PELarson]

a little humor in a time of tragedy.

KARE11 just ran a interview with a lady that decided not to take the bridge at the last moment because her bladder was full. :thumbsup:

 

[waggy]

just heard on the news 8 dead =(

 

[Joemonkey]

Originally posted by: PELarson
a little humor in a time of tragedy.

KARE11 just ran a interview with a lady that decided not to take the bridge at the last moment because her bladder was full. :thumbsup:

its the little things isn't it? I got home from a 7ish hour drive (no where near where the incident happened, but it was 95% interstate driving which by itself is dangerous in it's own right) at 6:05pm here, and my wife worries constantly about me when I'm traveling. Wasn't a good time to say "hey at least I didn't have to go to minneapolis...."