$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[Kaido]

I find Tesla rather frustrating with their approach to automobile design. It's like... they're designed by engineers that never actually use the car. They think of an interesting idea that applies well to the idea of automation, but they completely ignore that people are still driving their car manually.

That is EXACTLY how Tesla designs things in a nutshell! Brilliant description! I was watching Brownlee's yoke review & he talked about that in relation to the touch buttons, especially the horn...they literally made the horn system worse by moving it to an awkward finger position with no tactile push.

 

[Aikouka]

LMAO, did he really? Hilarious considering the couple FSD evangelist trolls on here who spout his worthless promises as gospel. Just a marketing guy with little understanding of his own company’s tech, like every actual engineer already knew.

Good post overall

To be fair, the proper quote is "didn't expect it to be so hard". I found an article that includes the tweet itself. In regard to "FSD evangelists", reading EV news can be a bit groan-inducing at times. I usually get a lot of my EV articles through what Google presents to me on the mobile homepage, and I recall this one where it was talking about criticism over the new yoke steering wheel. In the opinion section of the article, which is clearly labeled, they noted how forward thinking Tesla is and how committed they are to their self-driving aspirations. Don't get me wrong... I think a self-driving car is a nifty idea as much as the next person, but I also realize that until it's in an incredibly competent state, I will still need to be able to drive the car manually.

The weird thing is that Musk seems to have a far better grasp on SpaceX than he does Tesla, which makes me wonder if Musk is simply acting as more of a Tesla mouthpiece rather than being highly invested in the day-to-day operations.

Man, I feel bad recommending FSD over performance now!!

What pushed me toward FSD is that I was apprehensive over the idea of having to pay more down the road ($5000 after delivery vs. $3000 at delivery). In a way, that wasn't an incorrect consideration, but I should've also considered that you cannot really upgrade the performance at all down the road. So, at least paying for AWD would've given me something that I couldn't really get outside of trading my vehicle in. Essentially, I should've been considering that aspect of it as well... especially given that FSD was really just a promise at that point, and we're just getting something close to it after ~3 years of owning the car.

One other aspect that made me willing to accept RWD over AWD is that I read countless testaments of how the RWD traction was better than you'd expect and that you don't really need AWD. While the RWD traction isn't bad, I'd really prefer AWD for slick roads after a rain. In regard to grip, the handling reminds me a lot more of my FWD Ford Fusion than my AWD Ford Taurus, and the latter felt so much better on wet roads.

That is EXACTLY how Tesla designs things in a nutshell! Brilliant description! I was watching Brownlee's yoke review & he talked about that in relation to the touch buttons, especially the horn...they literally made the horn system worse by moving it to an awkward finger position with no tactile push.

I don't know if you saw Elon's response to MKBHD's video on the new Model S, but he noted that the software would eventually get better at ignoring accidental presses of the capacitive buttons on the steering wheel. They end up fighting so much to solve problems that they created. Honestly, I don't even understand why you need to swap to different input means. For example, if they wanted to make a physical control for wipers that worked better with automation, why not just a wheel with individual stops but not explicitly designated stops? It would be just like a mouse wheel. This means that if I think AUTO isn't doing well enough, I scroll one click down to go from AUTO to HIGH.

 

[Kaido]

LMAO, did he really? Hilarious considering the couple FSD evangelist trolls on here who spout his worthless promises as gospel. Just a marketing guy with little understanding of his own company’s tech, like every actual engineer already knew.

Good post overall

I have a checklist for auditing both what my brain says & what other people say:

1. Just because someone says something & puts it out there,
2. Even if they say it with authority,
3. Even if they say it confidently,
4. Even if they really believe it,
5. Doesn't mean it's true

Two things I've learned over the years:

1. Never buy first-generation hardware, because it's always rushed to market to meet an advertising deadline
2. The feature set you buy today is the feature set you get forever. Any future promised features are bonus gravy, but WYSIWG, because otherwise you risk disappointment

These rules have helped me stay out of a LOT of trouble lol.

 

[Kaido]

What pushed me toward FSD is that I was apprehensive over the idea of having to pay more down the road ($5000 after delivery vs. $3000 at delivery). In a way, that wasn't an incorrect consideration, but I should've also considered that you cannot really upgrade the performance at all down the road. So, at least paying for AWD would've given me something that I couldn't really get outside of trading my vehicle in. Essentially, I should've been considering that aspect of it as well... especially given that FSD was really just a promise at that point, and we're just getting something close to it after ~3 years of owning the car.

One other aspect that made me willing to accept RWD over AWD is that I read countless testaments of how the RWD traction was better than you'd expect and that you don't really need AWD. While the RWD traction isn't bad, I'd really prefer AWD for slick roads after a rain. In regard to grip, the handling reminds me a lot more of my FWD Ford Fusion than my AWD Ford Taurus, and the latter felt so much better on wet roads.

I don't know if you saw Elon's response to MKBHD's video on the new Model S, but he noted that the software would eventually get better at ignoring accidental presses of the capacitive buttons on the steering wheel. They end up fighting so much to solve problems that they created. Honestly, I don't even understand why you need to swap to different input means. For example, if they wanted to make a physical control for wipers that worked better with automation, why not just a wheel with individual stops but not explicitly designated stops? It would be just like a mouse wheel. This means that if I think AUTO isn't doing well enough, I scroll one click down to go from AUTO to HIGH.

I wonder how much having the FSD package on the car contributes to resale value, vs. AWD, Performance, etc.

I think the stalk issue could be easily fixed:

1. Click the yoke wheel to cycle between modes, especially as the steering wheel screen could pull up a selector. One click for wipers & say two clicks for a full options menu.
2. Scroll between low, medium, high, auto
3. Click to confirm

So it starts raining, you tap the button, scroll to your desired setting, click to save it, DONE! And see the options on the screen behind the steering wheel.

 

[JEDI]

Man, I feel bad recommending FSD over performance now!!

no kitchen gadgets privileges for 2 weeks.
just a spatula, walmart non-stick frying pan, and a microwave as punishment

 

[Commodus]

Two things I've learned over the years:

1. Never buy first-generation hardware, because it's always rushed to market to meet an advertising deadline
2. The feature set you buy today is the feature set you get forever. Any future promised features are bonus gravy, but WYSIWG, because otherwise you risk disappointment

These rules have helped me stay out of a LOT of trouble lol.

I'd add an exception for number one: it's okay if you know what you're getting into and are buying precisely for that early adopter experience. I bought a first-gen Apple Watch knowing it'd be quirky (and it was), but also knowing that I would get a peek at where smartwatches were going... well, that and I'd be the coolest nerd on the block for a while.

Something like an EV is another story, since most people can't drop $40K-plus just to be an early bird... and of course, bugs in a car are worse than bugs in a smartwatch. But I do think we may get nostalgic for this period in EVs, when the market was still small enough that you felt like a futurist driving your Model 3 (or Mustang Mach-E, or...) to fetch groceries.

 

[Kaido]

no kitchen gadgets privileges for 2 weeks.
just a spatula, walmart non-stick frying pan, and a microwave as punishment

Fight me bro

 

[Aikouka]

I wonder how much having the FSD package on the car contributes to resale value, vs. AWD, Performance, etc.

Well, I guess one advantage that I have is that since Tesla doesn't sell LR RWD Model 3s anymore, it gives mine some sense of extra value? Although, the prices have dropped a bit since I bought mine, so that might offset some aspects of it. A friend of mine sold his Model X recently, and he actually got about 65% of its original value even after 3 years, which isn't too shabby. That includes how his car went through some major prices changes due to things like the tax credit disappearing and Tesla slashing prices.

So it starts raining, you tap the button, scroll to your desired setting, click to save it, DONE! And see the options on the screen behind the steering wheel.

The biggest thing for me is to keep it as simple as possible. One problem that I usually run into with the wipers is when I encounter a fairly large change in the intensity of the rain. There have been times when I went from a fairly modest rainfall to a downpour, and the automatic wipers can't usually keep up. In previous cars, even if they had automatic wipers, I'd just change to HIGH with the flick of my thumb.

Awkwardly enough, I had a user on Twitter suggest that I use voice commands to change the wiper speed. I don't think people understand how quickly the rain can change!

 

[Kaido]

I'd add an exception for number one: it's okay if you know what you're getting into and are buying precisely for that early adopter experience. I bought a first-gen Apple Watch knowing it'd be quirky (and it was), but also knowing that I would get a peek at where smartwatches were going... well, that and I'd be the coolest nerd on the block for a while.

Something like an EV is another story, since most people can't drop $40K-plus just to be an early bird... and of course, bugs in a car are worse than bugs in a smartwatch. But I do think we may get nostalgic for this period in EVs, when the market was still small enough that you felt like a futurist driving your Model 3 (or Mustang Mach-E, or...) to fetch groceries.

That's true. I bought my Anova combi oven as a first-gen unit, knowing that it was a first-gen unit, because I wanted to be an early-adopter. It's had some teething issues, but it's also been a great machine overall so far!

Meet my $600 toaster oven

TL,DR: This is a cool new oven that (1) automates cooking to (2) give you perfect results. It's expensive, but 100% worth it if you want to save money by cooking at home & eat delicious food all the time without really trying. This is an Easy Bake Oven for Adults lol. This is basically Sous...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[manly]

That is EXACTLY how Tesla designs things in a nutshell! Brilliant description! I was watching Brownlee's yoke review & he talked about that in relation to the touch buttons, especially the horn...they literally made the horn system worse by moving it to an awkward finger position with no tactile push.

"Worse" highly understates the problem; all those capacitive buttons are frustrating but the horn is something you need access to quickly without trying to hit a tiny target. As implemented, it's virtually useless in real time. Now I only tap the horn a few times a year (rarely if ever, rage smashing it) so I guess for normal people, this isn't the end of the world. Model S with yoke drivers will be the most polite on the road because they'll never honk their horns.

As for FSD's perceived value in a car sale, is the software unlock even transferable to the buyer?

 

[JEDI]

Fight me bro

View attachment 47854

i should have said non-working microwave

 

[manly]

Car & Driver has a Model 3 in their long-term test fleet, and they have their own take on maintenance and repair costs:

Our 2019 Tesla Model 3 Was a Learning Experience

Over two years and 40,000 miles, our Tesla Model 3 highlighted the novelty and compromise of EVs.

www.caranddriver.com

Personally, I lump tires in with maintenance costs but they put it in a separate bucket for "normal wear."

 

[Commodus]

Car & Driver has a Model 3 in their long-term test fleet, and they have their own take on maintenance and repair costs:

Our 2019 Tesla Model 3 Was a Learning Experience

Over two years and 40,000 miles, our Tesla Model 3 highlighted the novelty and compromise of EVs.

www.caranddriver.com

Personally, I lump tires in with maintenance costs but they put it in a separate bucket for "normal wear."

They're important considerations, although C&D doesn't touch on how you'll still avoid a lot of conventional costs. Oil, mufflers, timing belts... it adds up!

 

[Aikouka]

I had to replace my Model 3's tires at about 20k miles due to them being so worn down that I had awful rain traction. While I had been trying to be a bit less aggressive in turns to save tire tread, I do tend to accelerate faster than most people. Albeit, most people around here accelerate slowly and react (to lights and traffic) slowly, so I may just seem a lot faster than most. I try to follow a rule of keeping the energy consumption meter below half during acceleration.

One thing to keep in mind in regard to servicing a Tesla is that not everyone will service them. For example, when I dinged my car*, I wanted to just pay for the repair myself rather than taking an insurance hit. (Although, it appears that car repair is as corrupt as medical billing, and insurance agencies get cheaper rates.) I went around to all reputable body shops in the area, and only one would touch my car. It isn't just that though... Tesla cars also have somewhat different mounting point for jacks/lifts, and you may need to literally provide the proper inserts to your mechanic as they may not have them on hand. When I bought my jack stands, I had to add in a separate puck for the car. (Oddly enough, it's also compatible with Porsche.)

*Note: I've had people ask, "How do you hit something with a car with so many sensors?" Honestly? Because they constantly go off when I'm backing out of the garage. I've been told to "STOP!" many, many times backing out, and when looking back, I saw that I was close to the side, but still absolutely fine to keep going. However, there was the one time when I ignored it and I was not fine.

 

[manly]

They're important considerations, although C&D doesn't touch on how you'll still avoid a lot of conventional costs. Oil, mufflers, timing belts... it adds up!

Car & Driver is reporting all of the various costs incurred over 35k miles. If the ICE cars in their test fleet needed maintenance or repairs, they have itemized it. I guess your point is that over the long, long term (say 120k miles), an ICE car will have substantial maintenance costs. Sure, that is true but it isn't going to show up within the first 40k miles driven.

For the purposes of the first few years of ownership, C&D is presenting what real-world operating costs look like for cars in its long-term test fleet. Much of that are maintenance and normal wear items; but at for their Model 3, they were unlucky enough to incur expensive glass replacement also.

 

[bigi]

Car & Driver has a Model 3 in their long-term test fleet, and they have their own take on maintenance and repair costs:

Our 2019 Tesla Model 3 Was a Learning Experience

Over two years and 40,000 miles, our Tesla Model 3 highlighted the novelty and compromise of EVs.

www.caranddriver.com

Personally, I lump tires in with maintenance costs but they put it in a separate bucket for "normal wear."

Car & Driver is being financed by gasoline car manufacturer ads. Tesla has not and will not pay them a button.

Their view is false and irrelevant for those who know how to get facts. They will write everything to keep their cash cows happy. This is not Tesla.

 

[Kaido]

Doug reviewed the Model S Plaid. As the guy who has driven, like, everything on the planet, his reaction to the speed is pretty amazing:

 

[Commodus]

Doug reviewed the Model S Plaid. As the guy who has driven, like, everything on the planet, his reaction to the speed is pretty amazing:

This video does draw attention to the build quality issues, though. Sounds like Tesla will have to address this much more aggressively before it becomes a defining feature of its cars.

 

[Kaido]

This video does draw attention to the build quality issues, though. Sounds like Tesla will have to address this much more aggressively before it becomes a defining feature of its cars.

I've been interested in the new Bronco & as I tool around my state I've been stopping in to test-drive different models. I took out the new electric Mustang-E & I'll say two things:

1. Creature comforts FTW
2. The build quality is better on the Fords than the Teslas

Like, it's become very clear to me that Teslas are a Silicone Valley-first, Detroit-second design. I love what Tesla is doing & appreciate their forward-thinking stuff like the yoke steering wheel, BUT, the include of touch buttons for stuff like the horn is beyond stupid. When you get in the Mach-E, you have a physical button for half the functions right there on the steering wheel, as well as a technological marvel in the form of a physical spinny-clicky knob built into the screen, which imo is just brilliant.

My original love for good human-friendly design came from the Tivo peanut remote. It was the only remote at the time that had an ergonomic shape, so you could easily find each of the buttons in the dark without having to turn on the light! I feel like they really focused on that in the Mach-E...it fits like a glove, the physical tactile buttons make everything accessible, etc. It's a far cry from Tesla's minimalist interior!

While I do like the minimalist approach, I'm also human & I respond to environmental design. Like, the Bronco is just a beast...hand-grips everywhere, macho angles, makes you feel awesome driving it, etc. I'm very curious to see how the Cybertruck feels hands-on!

 

[manly]

This video does draw attention to the build quality issues, though. Sounds like Tesla will have to address this much more aggressively before it becomes a defining feature of its cars.

Before?

 

[BarkingGhostar]

They're important considerations, although C&D doesn't touch on how you'll still avoid a lot of conventional costs. Oil, mufflers, timing belts... it adds up!

I found that article complaining about tire costs as part of the maintenance at 40K miles to be silly. How your tires wear depends in part on how your drive. On my 335 I can easily spend $1K on tires after 30K miles if I 'enjoy' my car. So complaining about how tires are worn so fast on a vehicle with near instant torque is stupid. One assumes if you are going to enjoy the performance of a car you are going to wear out those wearable items faster, which comes at a $ cost.

 

[Commodus]

I found that article complaining about tire costs as part of the maintenance at 40K miles to be silly. How your tires wear depends in part on how your drive. On my 335 I can easily spend $1K on tires after 30K miles if I 'enjoy' my car. So complaining about how tires are worn so fast on a vehicle with near instant torque is stupid. One assumes if you are going to enjoy the performance of a car you are going to wear out those wearable items faster, which comes at a $ cost.

It's not just the torque, it's the weight... they're supporting an inherently much heavier vehicle!

 

[zinfamous]

Doug reviewed the Model S Plaid. As the guy who has driven, like, everything on the planet, his reaction to the speed is pretty amazing:

uh, the various horn sounds....I can't imagine that's legal. Seriously--a drum roll or applause? How does that meet any kind of safety standard?

 

[BarkingGhostar]

It's not just the torque, it's the weight... they're supporting an inherently much heavier vehicle!

I understand, but I also understand that if Tesla were abusing a product outside its design parameters then the tire manufacturer would complain in the form of not warranty the tires. As such, the tires wear according to their use, which in large part is how the driver [ab]uses them.

 

[Kaido]

Before?

https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/pbgboc