$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,332
7,606
136
Me no gusta. A single loose cable prevents any of the doors from opening?

Yeah, there's waaaay too much stuff tied up in the electronics systems on modern cars. My previous vehicle (Jeep Renegade) constantly went haywire due to bad internal computers (which were replaced multiple times & STILL had problems). For example, one of those glitches included not being able to disable the pushbutton e-brake (yup, no mechanical lever to pull!). Happened to me several times; I had to disconnect the battery & let the vehicle discharge to get the stupid computer to reset & allow me to disable the e-brake. SUPER dumb!
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,821
16,091
136
I don't plan to park Cybertruck in my garage. It's going to sit in my driveway. I've parked my Tundra truck outside for 18 years and Cybertruck is going to get the same treatment. I'll probably install outside charger in the driveway. But Musk said the Cybertruck might get solar panels on its tonneau cover so you might get around 10 miles a day charging through solar. If so, regular 120 V house outlet combined with solar charge might be enough charge for most people.

#Winning
 

drnickriviera

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2001
2,463
271
136
Sorry i'm thinking wire rope cable, not electrical wire bundle . derp. But a single point of failure... would be nice for some sort of mechanical backup
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,085
2,281
126
Say what you want about Ford's quality, but for a car that's been in production for the past 55 years, that was a pretty silly thing to break on me less than a year into ownership.
Unless Ford is for some reason is building the same car they were back in 1964...I'm pretty sure that clutch has not been in production that long...I'd hope not anyway lol :D

Stuff breaks on cars...probably less so on Teslas for the most part.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,972
592
136
Yes, I expect Tesla to win the FSD race. When I don't know. I can only guess. If we listen to Musk, Tesla might have feature complete FSD by the end of 2020. That means all the features are there but the system will still need driver monitoring while it learns. I suspect then couple more years for the system to learn and maybe get regulatory approval. So maybe 2025 or so? I just know when and if Tesla solves FSD, it's going to completely revolutionize and change transport as we know it forever.

George Hotz also thinks Tesla will be the first to solve FSD.

While I agree that Tesla will be the first, I think the biggest hurdle is our existing infrastructure. It varries so much between countries, hell even in the US some things can even vary widely between states sometimes. That is a lot to overcome for sure.

With that said, I did just pickup a Model 3 LR AWD a couple days ago and I love this thing! The autosteer alone is amazing, but I see minor hiccups on occasion. One time it followed the lines into a right turn lane thinking that was going straight... overall it is amazing at what it does and it drives better than I do. Though I do wish it took stopping/starting a bit more smoothly.

With all of that said, no way am I going to pay for FSD, the autopilot (or whatever they call it tomorrow) is amazing enough and it makes stop and go traffic much easier to handle for sure.
 
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Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Picked up my 3 from the wrap installer and finally drove it. Swapped winter wheels on in the wrap bay and put about 170 miles on it yesterday.

Good god it is fast. Even in way less than optimal circumstances - Cold, rain, snow tires. It is still absurdly quick. Autopilot is better than I expected it to be. I was running it about 90% of the time. At lower speeds it just works, intuitive and natural. Even moderately complex things like cars cutting in, merging traffic, etc it does pretty well. It got a bit wonky at highway speed once but takeover is easy and the fallback to TACC vs just nothing is elegant. Rear camera is near useless in the dark I need to figure that out - Maybe my reverse lights aren't working.

The wrap installer found a paint defect on one panel that we didn't notice at delivery. I am actually glad I didn't notice it as I would have been massively conflicted on getting it fixed/delaying delivery/delaying wrap. There's some debris in the clearcoat but whatever IDGAF. Wrapped right over it. Took some road debris across the hood at 65 mph so I'm already glad I had it wrapped vs waiting for a panel replacement.

Also, supercharging is amazingly fast. I knew it in theory but even on a 150kw supercharger and never seeing above ~136kw it adds range comically fast. I was not convinced that the supercharger network was a huge advantage and for daily driving it probably isn't. But for cold weather inefficient driving and/or road trips the difference will be much appreciated. I probably underestimated the value of having access to it.

Viper GTS
 

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With all of that said, no way am I going to pay for FSD, the autopilot (or whatever they call it tomorrow) is amazing enough and it makes stop and go traffic much easier to handle for sure.
I could see paying for FSD once the feature rolls out. I would never pre-pay for it though, as we don't know what Tesla will roll-out under the label of FSD and I wouldn't just take some company's word that the feature will be out by X date - they could keep pushing it out and out after you take delivery of your vehicle...
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,332
7,606
136
Picked up my 3 from the wrap installer and finally drove it. Swapped winter wheels on in the wrap bay and put about 170 miles on it yesterday.

Good god it is fast. Even in way less than optimal circumstances - Cold, rain, snow tires. It is still absurdly quick. Autopilot is better than I expected it to be. I was running it about 90% of the time. At lower speeds it just works, intuitive and natural. Even moderately complex things like cars cutting in, merging traffic, etc it does pretty well. It got a bit wonky at highway speed once but takeover is easy and the fallback to TACC vs just nothing is elegant. Rear camera is near useless in the dark I need to figure that out - Maybe my reverse lights aren't working.

The wrap installer found a paint defect on one panel that we didn't notice at delivery. I am actually glad I didn't notice it as I would have been massively conflicted on getting it fixed/delaying delivery/delaying wrap. There's some debris in the clearcoat but whatever IDGAF. Wrapped right over it. Took some road debris across the hood at 65 mph so I'm already glad I had it wrapped vs waiting for a panel replacement.

Also, supercharging is amazingly fast. I knew it in theory but even on a 150kw supercharger and never seeing above ~136kw it adds range comically fast. I was not convinced that the supercharger network was a huge advantage and for daily driving it probably isn't. But for cold weather inefficient driving and/or road trips the difference will be much appreciated. I probably underestimated the value of having access to it.

Viper GTS

If you're a nuance person, then you will love Tesla's & EV's in general. Just all of the little things...no noise or vibration from the engine, instant response, instant torque, crazy speed, etc. Plus OTA updates, a Supercharging network, games to play & movies to watch while you're parked & charging up, the seats are ridiculously comfortable & also ridiculously easy to clean, etc. On paper, none of those sound overly-compelling as compared to just buying an ICE vehicle & fueling up at gas stations as needed, but in practice, it creates a whole different experience.

It reminds me a lot of back in the day when Windows was really crummy & you got all of those diehard Mac fans (myself included!) - once you got a taste of an environment tailor to enhance the experience through all of those little nuances & things just work so nicely & so well & are so well-thought-out, you 're just like "ooooooh this is nice!" & that's why people get so attached to things like Macs & Teslas & Instant Pots & whatnot.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,332
7,606
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I could see paying for FSD once the feature rolls out. I would never pre-pay for it though, as we don't know what Tesla will roll-out under the label of FSD and I wouldn't just take some company's word that the feature will be out by X date - they could keep pushing it out and out after you take delivery of your vehicle...

Yeah I feel kinda bad for everyone who paid for FSD years & years ago. Like, my buddy paid something like $6,000 for it...the most recent update has Stop-Sign detection, so it shows a little graphic on the screen...and that's it. lol.

I mean, FSD is coming; it's inevitable. We kill 30k+ people annually on American roads, and we have a lot of highly-motivated tech companies employing some extremely smart people to work on solving this issue, so it's really a question of when, not if. So the question for the consumer is: are you willing to put down your money now, for a feature that will come in the feature, but that will come piecemeal, over a time span of years?

I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to pay ahead though, for 2 reasons:

1. 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. If you can wrap the current $7k cost of FSD into your monthly car payment, that's a much easier pill to swallow than having to fork out $7,000 in cash when the time comes.

2. Supposedly, FSD will cost more in the future, and already costs more if you add it on later, so you get a discount by buying now.

So if you're already going to be driving a Tesla, you can save money up-front & also not have to eat that huge chunk of money in a single cash payout in the future if FSD is something you're interested in & are willing to be patient for. Personally, I'm not, so hopefully by the time my Cybertruck comes, I can ditch my stick-shift & go FSD lol!
 
Dec 10, 2005
29,628
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136
Yeah I feel kinda bad for everyone who paid for FSD years & years ago. Like, my buddy paid something like $6,000 for it...the most recent update has Stop-Sign detection, so it shows a little graphic on the screen...and that's it. lol.

I mean, FSD is coming; it's inevitable. We kill 30k+ people annually on American roads, and we have a lot of highly-motivated tech companies employing some extremely smart people to work on solving this issue, so it's really a question of when, not if. So the question for the consumer is: are you willing to put down your money now, for a feature that will come in the feature, but that will come piecemeal, over a time span of years?

I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to pay ahead though, for 2 reasons:

1. 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. If you can wrap the current $7k cost of FSD into your monthly car payment, that's a much easier pill to swallow than having to fork out $7,000 in cash when the time comes.

2. Supposedly, FSD will cost more in the future, and already costs more if you add it on later, so you get a discount by buying now.

So if you're already going to be driving a Tesla, you can save money up-front & also not have to eat that huge chunk of money in a single cash payout in the future if FSD is something you're interested in & are willing to be patient for. Personally, I'm not, so hopefully by the time my Cybertruck comes, I can ditch my stick-shift & go FSD lol!
For #1 - I don't think you're average American can afford a Tesla, let alone including that additional cost up-front for FSD.

For #2 - maybe it will cost more in the future, but there is the opportunity cost of what you could do with that money in the meantime. And if you take delivery before FSD becomes available for your car, you may only have a fraction of the time to use FSD with your vehicle, since it's nontransferable.

If you want to fund Tesla's research, it seems like there would be better ways to do it, such as buying Tesla corporate bonds, buying stock (when they offer it for public sale - not what's already on the market), or just giving them money directly.

I just don't trust them to actually deliver what they claim they will deliver. Musk has a big fat head and a loud dumb mouth - he may talk big in public about the future of automobiles and Tesla features, but at the end of the day, it's going to come down to the sales contract you sign, and there is probably enough wiggle room in the FSD part to be left feeling burned by a feature that may not be what you thought it would be.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,972
592
136
For #2 - maybe it will cost more in the future, but there is the opportunity cost of what you could do with that money in the meantime. And if you take delivery before FSD becomes available for your car, you may only have a fraction of the time to use FSD with your vehicle, since it's nontransferable.

That's the kicker for me.... in a few years I may have a different car! Honestly, I grabbed the M3 knowing I likely will want to go with a Y down the road, and if I trade it in, that's all for nothing. The real kicker is if I traded it in /w Tesla they wipe it anyway and make the new person pay for it anyway! LOL that is a real kick to the nuts.

With that said, I love my model 3 :)
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,579
4,236
136
Yeah I feel kinda bad for everyone who paid for FSD years & years ago. Like, my buddy paid something like $6,000 for it...the most recent update has Stop-Sign detection, so it shows a little graphic on the screen...and that's it. lol.

I mean, FSD is coming; it's inevitable. We kill 30k+ people annually on American roads, and we have a lot of highly-motivated tech companies employing some extremely smart people to work on solving this issue, so it's really a question of when, not if. So the question for the consumer is: are you willing to put down your money now, for a feature that will come in the feature, but that will come piecemeal, over a time span of years?

I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to pay ahead though, for 2 reasons:

1. 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. If you can wrap the current $7k cost of FSD into your monthly car payment, that's a much easier pill to swallow than having to fork out $7,000 in cash when the time comes.

2. Supposedly, FSD will cost more in the future, and already costs more if you add it on later, so you get a discount by buying now.

So if you're already going to be driving a Tesla, you can save money up-front & also not have to eat that huge chunk of money in a single cash payout in the future if FSD is something you're interested in & are willing to be patient for. Personally, I'm not, so hopefully by the time my Cybertruck comes, I can ditch my stick-shift & go FSD lol!
But Elon says Tesla FSD is already "feature complete". :rolleyes: And that since it's worth mid 5 figures to TM3 owners as a robotaxi service, he's inclined to jack up the price significantly.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,332
7,606
136
For #1 - I don't think you're average American can afford a Tesla, let alone including that additional cost up-front for FSD.

So, it's a little more complex than just up-front cost, but it does involve up-front costs:

1. Up-front cost: The average price for a new car in 2019 is $37,185 according to Kelly Blue Book. A base model Tesla (off menu) is $35k (before rebates/incentives). So you can at least get into a base-model Tesla with no FSD (which can be upgraded later) for the average selling price of a new car in America. So I would tweak that statement to say an American buy, who is in the market for a new car, who is going in for the average selling price, could in theory afford a base-model Tesla (which is pretty decently well-equipped).


2. Total costs: You'll save on maintenance costs long-term. The 5-year total costs to own between a Tesla 3 SR vs. a base Toyota Camry SE is $5,000:


For #2 - maybe it will cost more in the future, but there is the opportunity cost of what you could do with that money in the meantime. And if you take delivery before FSD becomes available for your car, you may only have a fraction of the time to use FSD with your vehicle, since it's nontransferable.

This is a really good point, and I think it can be looked at two ways:

1. Opportunity cost
2. Reality option

$7,000 is no joke. However, if you were to finance it, on a say a standard 5-year loan at say 0% interest (for the sake of easy financials here), that's an extra $117/mo, which is pretty hefty. But if you were to look at the whole picture, you're probably going to save about 2/3 in gas. So if a full tank of gas is $36 & a Tesla Model 3 costs $12 to fill up, then depending on how much fuel you go through in an average month, that extra fee could be a non-issue. The difficult thing with these comparisons is how many variables are totally dependent on the driver's unique situation, taste in cars in terms of trim level (additional costs), etc.

The reality option is that most people don't have $7k sitting around in cash to throw at an upgrade down the road when FSD is realized, which means if they really want it, it does make more sense as an option in the reality that people have to live in to buy it up-front, because then they can bundle it into their monthly payment, take advantage of the cost-savings of an EV, and get it paid off. Then again, if people are financial savvy, that $7,000 could have purchased Tesla stock at $209 at the end of August 2019, crashed out when it hit $418 (today's stock price), and literally doubled their money.

Granted, it's a dice roll to play the stock market, but that could be an option for (1) people who have $7,000 cash available, and (2) are savvy enough to invest it, and (3) don't mind the risk that comes with playing the stock market. However, I don't buy into the standard "X price" argument that is so prevalent on the Internet, because of the data, including things like an average new-car selling price of $37k, 78% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, and so on. What that tells me is that most people who are in the market for a new car could afford a non-tricked-out Tesla model & that most people - if they want FSD - would be better off buying that package up-front because they don't have the cash on-hand to buy it later & wouldn't be savvy enough to invest it in other things anyway.

I just don't trust them to actually deliver what they claim they will deliver. Musk has a big fat head and a loud dumb mouth - he may talk big in public about the future of automobiles and Tesla features, but at the end of the day, it's going to come down to the sales contract you sign, and there is probably enough wiggle room in the FSD part to be left feeling burned by a feature that may not be what you thought it would be.

That's an excellent point. Having been burned by vaporware numerous times, I really only believe in what's available right now, today, on a vehicle. So if you're happy where Autopilot is at today & you've plopped down your $7k, then you won't get mad if it never comes to fruition or if it takes years & years to finish. Honestly, I don't know if Tesla can do true, hands-free, Level-5 full self-driving with just radars & cameras alone. It's a question mark right now. I hope they can, and I hope that in 3 years when my Cybertruck becomes available (2 years to production + 1 year to let them work the kinks out) that FSD will be in a better spot than just showing you Stop Signs on the road & slowly picking you up curbside from its parking space.

I know there were a lot of people who paid for FSD years ago & now have to upgrade their computers & still not have true FSD yet, and that has to be incredibly frustrating for people who aren't onboard with the beta-test-and-wait methodology required to advance the technology - for people who paid for it & expected it as a turnkey feature in the near-term future, they are probably pretty irritated, but that's the risk you sign up for when you pay for something that's not actually shipping yet. Which is one of the reasons I rarely fund great Kickstarter ideas...I want to believe, X-files style, but also...ehhhhh lol. I believe companies when they ship the product, service, or feature, haha!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,332
7,606
136
That's the kicker for me.... in a few years I may have a different car! Honestly, I grabbed the M3 knowing I likely will want to go with a Y down the road, and if I trade it in, that's all for nothing. The real kicker is if I traded it in /w Tesla they wipe it anyway and make the new person pay for it anyway! LOL that is a real kick to the nuts.

With that said, I love my model 3 :)

My buddy has whatever that middle-of-the-road 3 is, the SR+ or whatever, and since he's purchased it, he has gotten:

* Video games
* Caraoke
* Netflix
* Various performance improvements (speed, charging, etc.)

Plus a bunch of other little stuff I don't remember. My Mustang has gotten...nothing. Haha!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,332
7,606
136
But Elon says Tesla FSD is already "feature complete". :rolleyes: And that since it's worth mid 5 figures to TM3 owners as a robotaxi service, he's inclined to jack up the price significantly.

I'll believe it when I see it. Not saying they can't do it, and in fact I think they have a high probability with pulling it off, but afaik the latest 2019 software update still runs directly over potholes at 70mph on the highway. So...yeah.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
I'll believe it when I see it. Not saying they can't do it, and in fact I think they have a high probability with pulling it off, but afaik the latest 2019 software update still runs directly over potholes at 70mph on the highway. So...yeah.
I'm a bit confused. I saw a vid on the new software, but I thought that was for autopilot, and not FSD? I'm I wrong?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,332
7,606
136
I'm a bit confused. I saw a vid on the new software, but I thought that was for autopilot, and not FSD? I'm I wrong?

The latest rollout included a FSD preview:


The FSD preview includes display of, but not response to (i.e. it won't stop at a red light for you), new things, including:

1. Trash cans
2. Lane lines
3. Arrows painted on the road
4. Red & green traffic lights
5. Railroad lines

 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
The latest rollout included a FSD preview:


The FSD preview includes display of, but not response to (i.e. it won't stop at a red light for you), new things, including:

1. Trash cans
2. Lane lines
3. Arrows painted on the road
4. Red & green traffic lights
5. Railroad lines

That was similar to the video I saw, but this guy said you had to be on a certain version of autopilot to get the update. I guess autopilot & FSD go hand in hand.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,972
592
136
That was similar to the video I saw, but this guy said you had to be on a certain version of autopilot to get the update. I guess autopilot & FSD go hand in hand.
So the constant name changing is crazy. They use the same hardware, autopilot is basically speed, single lane driving and it responds to other cars. FSD adds lane change and autosommon and $7000 currently which is why I won't buy it.

 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
So the constant name changing is crazy. They use the same hardware, autopilot is basically speed, single lane driving and it responds to other cars. FSD adds lane change and autosommon and $7000 currently which is why I won't buy it.

I bought it, because I fear it's only going up. I will admit that I'm back and forth on the issue though.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
Dutch Company Reveals An Electric Car That Charges Itself With Sunlight
https://www.healthyfoodhouse.com/dutch-company-reveals-an-electric-car-that-charges-itself-with-sunlight

this solar car will get to a range of approximately 725 km, and 400 km in the winter at highway speeds with the heating on.

725km = 450miles

Its hood and roof are made of 5 square meters of integrated solar cells in safety glass.
but costs €119,000. :eek:
I didn't think it possible, but that's uglier than the Cybertruck! And that price!!! Yikes!!!
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
Look at all these people who stood in line on New Year's Eve to pick up their Model 3 at the Tesla Fremont factory!


And there's Elon on New Year's Eve evening at the Fremont factory interacting with customers and helping with deliveries. Would any other CEO do this? Elon Musk is why I'm all in on Tesla. I know no other CEO who works harder or risks all their fortune on success of their company. He's all in.
ENKCzIWVUAAim3b.jpg
 
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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-cuts-starting-price-china-034334809.html

Huge price cut for made in China Tesla Model 3 before the start of China delivery! Tesla is cutting the price from 355,800 yuan to 299,050. That's 56,750 yuan cheaper or around $8,107 cheaper at $1 to 7 yuan exchange rate. This is huge price cut before the start of Chinese made Model 3 deliveries. Demand for Shanghai made Model 3 is going to go crazy in China.